Jump to content

Photo

Lemaire is the Devilsí Best Hope to Win a Cup


  • Please log in to reply
38 replies to this topic

#21 The Facepainter

The Facepainter

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 657 posts

Posted 13 July 2009 - 09:24 PM

No, Lemaire is not the Devils' best chance to win a Cup. He's their best chance to get 100-point seasons and division titles in the regular season. But they have zero chance to win a Cup in the new NHL with the Jacques system and this group of players.

Unless Lou and Jacques BOTH have turned over a new leaf (and I refuse to believe it till I see it), this is just more running in place. Too competitive to sink, but no real chance to do damage in the playoffs. I had higher hopes for this offseason after the youth movement.


Why does everyone think they know this guy inside out. Everything I read, from those who are not Devil or Ranger fans, have had nothing but great things to say about Lemaire. I see some using the Wild as evidence that he can't coach in this era, but I think most are forgetting that he took over an expansion team in 2000. Of those four expansion teams, none of them have had the success that the Wild have had.
  • -1

#22 devlman

devlman

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,906 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 10:16 AM

haha i liked how you linked to wikipedia for everything...

but i agree with the bulk of what youve written. My main objection with Lemaire is that its not good for buisness and public relations. Our arena is still considered new, and with a crop full of young guys coming up next season we need to let them loose (even if that means losing a few more games). Its part of growing pains, but at least exciting hockey helps the bottom line during this recession, and helps our long-term rebuilding.
  • 1

#23 95Crash

95Crash

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,950 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:14 AM

I agree 100 percent with your comment about the Devils' penchant for losing late leads the last two years being "an unforgivable sin."

I'm a little disappointed with how many Devils fans there are these days that look back on the teams of the past 15 years and see nothing but boring trap hockey. That sounds like frustrated Rangers fans talking. ... If nothing else, the Devils used to stand for defensive responsibility. Each offensive player had a personal responsibility to play both ends of the ice, and each defenseman was held personally accountable for protecting Marty at all costs. That philosophy won us three Cups and kept us in the playoffs year after year. Leaguewide, the team was well respected because of it. Sure, there were jealous fans and media types -- of other teams -- that called us boring, that knocked us every chance they had. But who cared?? The Devils were consistent winners, right up there with Detroit as the two best franchises in the entire league.

Yeah, yeah, I know, it's a new NHL today. The rules are a lot stricter. You can't win by clutching and grabbing and playing only defense. ... But what ... do we really think that Jacques Lemaire doesn't know that? It's not like the guy had left the game for a decade and now he's coming back to play a 1990s' style. And anyway, I think Lemaire's Devils teams of the '90s got a bad rap when it came to clutching and grabbing. If anything, Pat Burns' 2003 Devils team clutched and grabbed and smothered a lot more than Jacques' teams -- which was understandable because that 2003 team didn't have the offensive guns. Lemaire's defensive style was much more about proper positioning than clutching and grabbing. And that proper defensive positioning led to some major breakaways going the other way. Lemaire's Devils teams had some decent offensive pop, if I remember correctly.

It sounds like Jacques is only gonna be here a couple of years -- just enough time to get us back on defensive track and not so long that he starts to slip into a rut and risk the players tuning him out. And anyway, the first two years was when he did his best work with the team during his first go-round.

Edited by 95Crash, 14 July 2009 - 11:16 AM.

  • 1



#24 NJDevs4978

NJDevs4978

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 23,076 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 12:12 PM

<!--quoteo(post=783960:date=Jul 13 2009, 09:08 PM:name=Hasan4978)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hasan4978 @ Jul 13 2009, 09:08 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=783960"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, Lemaire is not the Devils' best chance to win a Cup. He's their best chance to get 100-point seasons and division titles in the regular season. But they have zero chance to win a Cup in the new NHL with the Jacques system and this group of players.

Unless Lou and Jacques BOTH have turned over a new leaf (and I refuse to believe it till I see it), this is just more running in place. Too competitive to sink, but no real chance to do damage in the playoffs. I had higher hopes for this offseason after the youth movement.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Why does everyone think they know this guy inside out. Everything I read, from those who are not Devil or Ranger fans, have had nothing but great things to say about Lemaire. I see some using the Wild as evidence that he can't coach in this era, but I think most are forgetting that he took over an expansion team in 2000. Of those four expansion teams, none of them have had the success that the Wild have had.


Maybe because we've seen him as a coach five years here and another decade since then? Clearly he's had one style of coaching for much of his career. True his first couple of years the 'system' wasn't a total one-dimensional trap but after the Cup for whatever reason (maybe Larry Robinson leaving) Jacques became one-dimensional and coached only defense and that continued in Minnesota - obviously partly out of neccesity.

Still, he hasn't had any playoff success in a long time (since '03, before the lockout) or proved he can win in this new NHL.
  • 0
"The Devils have high standards, that's the difference. We have a standard to live up to every year, and a couple of teams in our area don't have the standards we do." - Pat Burns

The New Jersey Devils win Stanley Cups everywhere:
-NHL record for most road wins in the playoffs - 10-1 in '95 and 10-2 in '00
-NHL record for most home wins in the playoffs - 12-1 in '03

#25 msweet

msweet

    The Voice of Reason

  • Admin
  • 8,811 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:10 PM

Msweet, do you really think this devils defense is 'very good'? I look at this defense and I see Paul Martin as a well rounded do it all #1 defensemen. Then Johnny Oduya as one of the best skaters and puck movers we have. He has out grown falling down and dropping his stick every 5 seconds from 2 years ago to become a great #3 that is forced to be a 2 here. Other than that I see nothing. Colin White and Bryce Salvador are both slow and one dimensional that are decent in there own end, good on the PK and tough as nails, but struggle to carry the puck or make smart passes so they just chip it off the boards when under pressure. I already talked about Mottau and Greene so that leaves us with the kids. The two that could make an impact this year are Corrente and Eckford and I'm thrilled about that because we've been so dry on blueline prospects in years past. My hope is that Corrente makes the team and plays well enough to EARN a top 4 spot, not just be handed to because we don't have the horses. That is unlikely, because I don't see anybody blocking his path so I guess he'll just have to prove himself on the go. Since I'm banking on Corrente playing a big role, I'd be estatic if Eckford can play a role of any kind this year. I'd love to see him on the back pairing with a chance to run the PP.



Our defense was "Very Good" in 2009 for sure. We were 4th in the league with 207 Goals against. 4th in the league at anything is very good if not excellent. We tend to be a bit spoiled here in NJ over our defense, which was and is currently very good.

Also, if I remember correctly, we had to have our backup goaltender in for about 50 games...making the defensive effort even more impressive.
  • 0
Follow me on Twitter @MSweetwood

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."


#26 John Wensink

John Wensink

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 622 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 01:24 PM

Hasan4978

Maybe because we've seen him as a coach five years here and another decade since then? Clearly he's had one style of coaching for much of his career. True his first couple of years the 'system' wasn't a total one-dimensional trap but after the Cup for whatever reason (maybe Larry Robinson leaving) Jacques became one-dimensional and coached only defense and that continued in Minnesota - obviously partly out of neccesity.

Still, he hasn't had any playoff success in a long time (since '03, before the lockout) or proved he can win in this new NHL.


And we've been tearing up the playoffs since that year too?

Look he may be a step back...I swear if he goes crazy matching lines I'll scream, BUT there was no-one with more experience.

Plus, nobody on the Devs, including Marty can look down at him or dismiss him. He WILL be respected.

Finally I'm interested in next season to see the way they play. I hope it is a pleasant surprise.
  • 0
"I feel privileged to have played on three Stanley Cup teams and finally help the New Jersey Devils get the respect they deserve." Scott Stevens

"I knew in my heart that one day we would turn it around and we'd do something special here," Ken Daneyko

"I hate the Rangers, and Lou hates them to death."- Martin Brodeur, "Beyond the Crease", page 261

#27 Devils Pride 26

Devils Pride 26

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,982 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:31 PM



Msweet, do you really think this devils defense is 'very good'? I look at this defense and I see Paul Martin as a well rounded do it all #1 defensemen. Then Johnny Oduya as one of the best skaters and puck movers we have. He has out grown falling down and dropping his stick every 5 seconds from 2 years ago to become a great #3 that is forced to be a 2 here. Other than that I see nothing. Colin White and Bryce Salvador are both slow and one dimensional that are decent in there own end, good on the PK and tough as nails, but struggle to carry the puck or make smart passes so they just chip it off the boards when under pressure. I already talked about Mottau and Greene so that leaves us with the kids. The two that could make an impact this year are Corrente and Eckford and I'm thrilled about that because we've been so dry on blueline prospects in years past. My hope is that Corrente makes the team and plays well enough to EARN a top 4 spot, not just be handed to because we don't have the horses. That is unlikely, because I don't see anybody blocking his path so I guess he'll just have to prove himself on the go. Since I'm banking on Corrente playing a big role, I'd be estatic if Eckford can play a role of any kind this year. I'd love to see him on the back pairing with a chance to run the PP.



Our defense was "Very Good" in 2009 for sure. We were 4th in the league with 207 Goals against. 4th in the league at anything is very good if not excellent. We tend to be a bit spoiled here in NJ over our defense, which was and is currently very good.

Also, if I remember correctly, we had to have our backup goaltender in for about 50 games...making the defensive effort even more impressive.

While being 4th in the league in GA is good, it really doesn't mean much when it comes to the playoffs and playing against top teams for 7 games. Thus has been the problem the last few years for the Devils, playing great in the regular season but struggling in the playoffs. When push comes to shove, our defense has gotten abused in the playoffs, they just don't stack up. The talent on the backend is just to thin at this point.
  • 0

#28 msweet

msweet

    The Voice of Reason

  • Admin
  • 8,811 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:42 PM

[quote name='Devils Pride 26' date='14 July 2009 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1247599888' post='784361']


Our defense was "Very Good" in 2009 for sure. We were 4th in the league with 207 Goals against. 4th in the league at anything is very good if not excellent. We tend to be a bit spoiled here in NJ over our defense, which was and is currently very good.

Also, if I remember correctly, we had to have our backup goaltender in for about 50 games...making the defensive effort even more impressive.
[/quote]
While being 4th in the league in GA is good, it really doesn't mean much when it comes to the playoffs and playing against top teams for 7 games. Thus has been the problem the last few years for the Devils, playing great in the regular season but struggling in the playoffs. When push comes to shove, our defense has gotten abused in the playoffs, they just don't stack up. The talent on the backend is just to thin at this point.
[/quote]

Yes... my point was similar in my article... good but not great = no Stanley Cup... need a different coaching style and philosophy
  • 0
Follow me on Twitter @MSweetwood

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."


#29 Devils Pride 26

Devils Pride 26

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,982 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 02:51 PM

[quote name='msweet' date='14 July 2009 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1247600564' post='784365']
[quote name='Devils Pride 26' date='14 July 2009 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1247599888' post='784361']


Our defense was "Very Good" in 2009 for sure. We were 4th in the league with 207 Goals against. 4th in the league at anything is very good if not excellent. We tend to be a bit spoiled here in NJ over our defense, which was and is currently very good.

Also, if I remember correctly, we had to have our backup goaltender in for about 50 games...making the defensive effort even more impressive.
[/quote]
While being 4th in the league in GA is good, it really doesn't mean much when it comes to the playoffs and playing against top teams for 7 games. Thus has been the problem the last few years for the Devils, playing great in the regular season but struggling in the playoffs. When push comes to shove, our defense has gotten abused in the playoffs, they just don't stack up. The talent on the backend is just to thin at this point.
[/quote]
Yes... my point was similar in my article... good but not great = no Stanley Cup... need a different coaching style and philosophy
[/quote]
I still think we need another top 4 guy along with one of the kids to step up before anything else. Maybe Lemaire will get us out of the first round but we are not winning the cup with the defense we have right now.
  • 0

#30 msweet

msweet

    The Voice of Reason

  • Admin
  • 8,811 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:24 PM

[quote name='Devils Pride 26' date='14 July 2009 - 03:51 PM' timestamp='1247601111' post='784368']
[quote name='msweet' date='14 July 2009 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1247600564' post='784365']
[quote name='Devils Pride 26' date='14 July 2009 - 03:31 PM' timestamp='1247599888' post='784361']


Our defense was "Very Good" in 2009 for sure. We were 4th in the league with 207 Goals against. 4th in the league at anything is very good if not excellent. We tend to be a bit spoiled here in NJ over our defense, which was and is currently very good.

Also, if I remember correctly, we had to have our backup goaltender in for about 50 games...making the defensive effort even more impressive.
[/quote]
While being 4th in the league in GA is good, it really doesn't mean much when it comes to the playoffs and playing against top teams for 7 games. Thus has been the problem the last few years for the Devils, playing great in the regular season but struggling in the playoffs. When push comes to shove, our defense has gotten abused in the playoffs, they just don't stack up. The talent on the backend is just to thin at this point.
[/quote]
Yes... my point was similar in my article... good but not great = no Stanley Cup... need a different coaching style and philosophy
[/quote]
I still think we need another top 4 guy along with one of the kids to step up before anything else. Maybe Lemaire will get us out of the first round but we are not winning the cup with the defense we have right now.
[/quote]


I have been saying for quite a while that we will need a stud on defense to win another Cup...for sure...agree
  • 0
Follow me on Twitter @MSweetwood

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."


#31 Devils Pride 26

Devils Pride 26

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,982 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:24 PM

One guy I have been interested in long before Sutter was even gone is Marek Zidlicky. He's not a number 1 by any means but he is the type of defensemen we've been in need of. Brings a good offensive game. The last 2 years he put up 42 and 43 points. Last year he scored 12 goals on 147 shots (8.2%). It wasn't that different than his career 7.4%. He's still young, he can run a PP, only one year left with a 3.35M hit (almost a perfect contract us us right now), and most importantly played under Lemaire. I would love to see:

Martin - Zidlicky
Oduya - Corrente
White - Salvador/Eckford/Greene/Mottau

Only problem is size, but White and Sal are big dudes, Corrente plays big, and Eckford is big too. One of the reason's why I think he is a darkhorse to make the team. You can't have enough big guys that can skate.
  • 0

#32 Prucenterrules

Prucenterrules

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,046 posts

Posted 14 July 2009 - 09:25 PM

I was completely against Lemaire at the start of the coaching search but now i'm kind of happy he's the coach. He will deffinetly hold the players accountable for their play and as long as he keeps the offense mostly the way it was we deffinetly have a chance if Marty plays like the real Marty and not like the Marty we have seen the last 5 seasons in the playoffs.
  • 0
Langenbrunner is #1
Devils + The Prudential Center = The Stanley Cup
Martin Brodeur gets win #500 11-17-07
Martin Brodeur gets win #552 3-17-09. I was there.
Posted Image Doc Emrik's "they're josling in the corner", Elias' team record 365th assist, and Devils' 12th Dec 2008 8-5 win over the Rags. Clarkson's "Gordie Howe hat-trick" against the panthers on 2-28-09. The "A" Line. Marty's 100th career shutout. Zubrus's game winner over the Rags (09/22/09).

#33 msweet

msweet

    The Voice of Reason

  • Admin
  • 8,811 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:12 AM

I was completely against Lemaire at the start of the coaching search but now i'm kind of happy he's the coach. He will deffinetly hold the players accountable for their play and as long as he keeps the offense mostly the way it was we deffinetly have a chance if Marty plays like the real Marty and not like the Marty we have seen the last 5 seasons in the playoffs.



I am realized for a year now this team as constructed and as coached by Sutter was not going to win anything big.

We simply don't match up well in the East against the best.

Lemaire is Lou's realization that we have to play a different way with this group of player sif we are going to win.
  • 0
Follow me on Twitter @MSweetwood

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."


#34 overtime98

overtime98

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,139 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 07:25 AM

if you dont believe we can be competitive and have a chance at the cup, please jump off the bandwagon. thank you.
  • 0
New Jersey Devils 3 time Stanley Cup Champions 1995 - 2000 - 2003!

Posted Image

#35 Pepperkorn

Pepperkorn

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 18,407 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 08:39 AM


I was completely against Lemaire at the start of the coaching search but now i'm kind of happy he's the coach. He will deffinetly hold the players accountable for their play and as long as he keeps the offense mostly the way it was we deffinetly have a chance if Marty plays like the real Marty and not like the Marty we have seen the last 5 seasons in the playoffs.



I am realized for a year now this team as constructed and as coached by Sutter was not going to win anything big.

We simply don't match up well in the East against the best.

Lemaire is Lou's realization that we have to play a different way with this group of player sif we are going to win.


See now I didn't know that ...UNTIL Sutter quit. Then I saw he doesn't have the stuff -- the stuff meaning the ability and desire to learn and grow from mistakes. Ditching the team rather than feeling impelled to finish out his contract and try to improve over this past season -- that was such a huge tip off that he wasn't the guy for the job. Not because he didn't like Jersey or any of that -- but he doesn't have a head coach instinct like Burns. I wouldn't have taken Brent if I was Darryl. I'd have said No sir -- you take that extra year and you learn what youve got to learn our East -- THEN bring it back here and make my organization thrive! Lemaire... I think it's the best fit for now and the best fit available.

I'm also not sure if I agree this team needs to play a different way... I think this team needs to LEARN how to play as a whole. A coach needs to understand that certain things do NOT just fall into place. Sutter was thinking like a player -- if you all do this then it'll all fall into place. Fine for a Captain but a coach has to see every detail and understand how to tweak parts as needed... the only thing that falls into place is chemistry. If you get the technical stuff down then chemistry falls into place -- OR you see who isnt aligned and never see within the teams vision. That's been really difficult the past three seasons or so. There are very different camps who are meshing together as best they can -- but something has to give. The fact that Madden was let go means it's not business as usual defensive hockey here we come. The single hardest thing to articulate is that a players vision is the same as the teams vision -- and to trust the coach if he gives you a drill or tells you to focus on something you do understand the value of -- you have to trust that he's correct. Gomez wasnt smart enough to get that. Needmybrother just didn't give a sh!t. He'd suck it up just enough to get the job done yet long to do it his way. I knew hed learn what he needed to on teh Ducks...schmuk Dubmass still thinks he's doing it his way. All he KNOWs he tok with him was the he's such an a$$hole that's all...
  • 0

I'm here for the party


#36 Maddog

Maddog

    Senior Devil

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 592 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 09:22 AM


I was completely against Lemaire at the start of the coaching search but now i'm kind of happy he's the coach. He will deffinetly hold the players accountable for their play and as long as he keeps the offense mostly the way it was we deffinetly have a chance if Marty plays like the real Marty and not like the Marty we have seen the last 5 seasons in the playoffs.



I am realized for a year now this team as constructed and as coached by Sutter was not going to win anything big.

We simply don't match up well in the East against the best.

Lemaire is Lou's realization that we have to play a different way with this group of player sif we are going to win.


I would have to agree with this 100%
  • 0

MDD_zpsbc48401d.png


#37 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,515 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:12 PM


I was completely against Lemaire at the start of the coaching search but now i'm kind of happy he's the coach. He will deffinetly hold the players accountable for their play and as long as he keeps the offense mostly the way it was we deffinetly have a chance if Marty plays like the real Marty and not like the Marty we have seen the last 5 seasons in the playoffs.



I am realized for a year now this team as constructed and as coached by Sutter was not going to win anything big.

We simply don't match up well in the East against the best.

Lemaire is Lou's realization that we have to play a different way with this group of player sif we are going to win.


i disagree a lot. the team's strength is in the forwards - the defense isn't weak like people around here will have you believe, but it is not ridiculously strong. the way to win in the nhl is to have your forwards out-possess the other team's forwards. jacques lemaire's system traditionally doesn't believe in this - it believes you can give the puck to the other team and take it away from them in a more advantageous position, something which i don't think is true anymore. it also traditionally focuses the team on line matching, which is okay, but line matching used to be about getting the guy who could hook, slash, and hack the team's best player to keep him from scoring. this simply isn't the case anymore. you need to have players who can keep up with them offensively - you can't just rope-a-dope and hope that your guys come out on top, because they simply won't. even jordan staal, everyone's wunderkindphenomsuperstar checking line center, was a large minus in this year's playoffs, because he was going up against top lines and they were still dominating his.

i have faith that lemaire is a smart hockey mind. i hope he's learned something from his time in minnesota. but the neutral zone trap as a long-term strategy isn't effective as a way to win the stanley cup. it may grind the most out of this pedestrian roster, but unless lemaire comes to his senses and begins matching up patrik elias against top lines - it's not going ot happen with rod pelley.
  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#38 LucifersDog

LucifersDog

    Broken Record

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,786 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:35 PM

I am happy it is Lemaire when I was thinking it could have been Johnny Mac.

Anyone talking about this team, as we know it, winning the Stanley Cup is stretching things a lot.

All I want to see is a team that improves and gets past round one, after all we have "Marty" in goal.

As I see the team right now we have two weak links: both overpaid underachievers they are Pando and Zubrus. If there was a way to get rid of both of them it would be best for the team.

BTW I don't think we are using Elias correctly if we have him playing as center so we still need a 2nd line center.
  • 0

#39 msweet

msweet

    The Voice of Reason

  • Admin
  • 8,811 posts

Posted 16 July 2009 - 08:43 AM

i have faith that lemaire is a smart hockey mind. i hope he's learned something from his time in minnesota. but the neutral zone trap as a long-term strategy isn't effective as a way to win the stanley cup. it may grind the most out of this pedestrian roster, but unless lemaire comes to his senses and begins matching up patrik elias against top lines - it's not going ot happen with rod pelley.


I really believe Lemaire will know what to do. He's really smart (unlike Sutter). He will not plat the trap. I have a good feeling about this.
  • 0
Follow me on Twitter @MSweetwood

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users