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Possible Truce Between New Jersey Arenas Could Come at a Cost to Fans


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#21 Devils Pride 26

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 06:50 PM

Would the prudential center be able to survive just off of 82 booked nights a year?
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#22 maxpower

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 07:19 PM

To any politician saying this is a bail out to Prudential Center, I say extend the Net's lease at Izod until they want to move and keep things as they are.

I don't want the Nets in my teams arena so Izod can make money with concerts (since they can't make money with Nets and concerts).

Please Islanders, step up to ne the Nets co-tenant in Brooklyn. Keep them out of Pru after their stint.


Izod can't make money on anything. the debt on that place is staggering. that's why the local politicians point at Newark and scream "bailout" whenever closing the dump comes up. once it closes, the debt has to be accounted for.... pretty much the same issue why Glendale is so desperate to keep the Coyotes, to keep kicking the crippling debt down the road instead of having to own up to it. it's not an easy thing to have a press conference for... "we're going to spend X number of dollars to knock over the $20M arena that's in 9 figures worth of debt.... next to a billion dollar boondogle that looks like it was made out of kiddie building block in all of the rejected colors."
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#23 95Crash

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Posted 10 December 2009 - 08:36 PM

On the face of it, this doesn't sound like such a bad deal for the time being. It's not like the Rock was scoring a lot of concerts anyway.
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#24 devilsfan26

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:04 AM

Screw the Nets. They obviously want nothing to do with New Jersey so I want nothing to do with them.
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#25 Triumph

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:21 AM

Screw the Nets. They obviously want nothing to do with New Jersey so I want nothing to do with them.


look, obviously if we're making analogies, brooklyn is the girl that the addled and stuporous nets want to take home with them, whereas new jersey is the girl who the nets know will put out but isn't all that interested in. problem is, brooklyn is too chaste and virtuous for this one night stand the nets have envisaged - and it's going to be jersey or something far uglier for the nets, which deep down they know.
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#26 DH26

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:35 AM

look, obviously if we're making analogies, brooklyn is the girl that the addled and stuporous nets want to take home with them, whereas new jersey is the girl who the nets know will put out but isn't all that interested in. problem is, brooklyn is too chaste and virtuous for this one night stand the nets have envisaged - and it's going to be jersey or something far uglier for the nets, which deep down they know.


hopefully the nets will do what Michael J. Fox did in teen wolf and pick the homely one (Boof) over the hot one. They should realize where their bread is buttered and the rest will be cream cheese :P
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#27 devilsfan26

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:39 AM

look, obviously if we're making analogies, brooklyn is the girl that the addled and stuporous nets want to take home with them, whereas new jersey is the girl who the nets know will put out but isn't all that interested in. problem is, brooklyn is too chaste and virtuous for this one night stand the nets have envisaged - and it's going to be jersey or something far uglier for the nets, which deep down they know.

But the Nets have been dating New Jersey for over 30 years and even though they are still dating, they told everyone they plan on sleeping with Brooklyn, and have even gone out of their way to cover up anything that resembles their relationship with New Jersey. New Jersey should wait for the Nets' birthday and break up with them via text message.
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#28 Triumph

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:46 AM

But the Nets have been dating New Jersey for over 30 years and even though they are still dating, they told everyone they plan on sleeping with Brooklyn, and have even gone out of their way to cover up anything that resembles their relationship with New Jersey. New Jersey should wait for the Nets' birthday and break up with them via text message.


but the New Jersey and the Nets have a terribly co-dependent relationship, and Brooklyn's got her own issues she has to work out first. The Nets need to learn to settle.
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#29 DevilNurn

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 01:48 AM

Pretty sure that in this analogy the Nets and New Jersey are divorced but not quite separated. Then Brooklyn is a stripper. Or some European chick.
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#30 devilsfan26

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 02:10 AM

but the New Jersey and the Nets have a terribly co-dependent relationship, and Brooklyn's got her own issues she has to work out first. The Nets need to learn to settle.

Well I think New Jersey should move on and let the Nets figure out their own fiasco themselves.
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#31 Chimaira_Devil_#9

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 05:01 AM

I think basketball is a joke sport and should be made illegal.

Honnestly the most pointless major sport out there.
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#32 Beezer34

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 11:16 AM

This same information was in a Star-Ledger article about a month ago. Way to go NY Times, so timely...


http://www.nypost.co...gisXdoI7sFJ4QdL

...the Post just broke the story today.
"Seems a deal is in the works between New Jersey's two major sports arenas; the Izod & Prudential centers. In an effort to keep the Nets from exiting the Garden State, the two venues are forming a venture called 'Jersey Presents', with the Nets & Devils playing in Newark.. and concerts, circuses, events, etc. playing exclusively in East Rutherford. The Prudential Center is a modern arena with ample, nearby parking and excellent security. It's also inordinately easier and cheaper to reach by car, bus, train, ferry or hitchhiking. Mass transit allows NBA fans from the five boroughs to sample the Nets without having to fight rush-hour traffic and get back home without the usual hassle and headache coupled with a trip to the Swamp. Once more, with feeling (just so we understand each other) the Nets' intention to shift to Newark for 1 seasons will have no impact on the team establishing residence at the intersection of Atlantic and Flatbush avenues some time in 2012."
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#33 maxpower

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Posted 11 December 2009 - 02:07 PM

but the New Jersey and the Nets have a terribly co-dependent relationship, and Brooklyn's got her own issues she has to work out first. The Nets need to learn to settle.


well, they got a $500M ring on layaway, so it looks like they'r proposing real soon.
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#34 Beezer34

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Posted 12 December 2009 - 04:07 PM

Just make it happen!!!


...oh it's happening. The Rock's website just updated the seating chart section:

www.prucenter.com/seating

As of last week, the Nets advertised as a venue was not there.
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#35 TheIceDog

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 09:28 AM

If I'm not mistaken, Rattner cannot construct the Atlantic Yards project without the basketball arena and that means the Nets as tenants. The region cannot support a third NBA team and the cost to that organization in terms of what compensation they would have to pay to the Nets and Knicks it wouldn't be economically sound.

I don't see how there could be a long term move by the Nets to The Rock based upon the current situation and court rulings involving all the eminent domain issues. I'm sure all involved could work out the penalty clauses involving the NJS&E Authority and Vanderbeek if the Nets moved to Newark but what about Rattner's legal obligations in NY? This doesn't make sense.
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#36 thiswontwork

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:27 AM

I think there are a few things going on at the same time here.

First, no one know for sure what is happening with Atlantic Yards, Ratner is beyond desperate to get Brooklyn build with that much invested in it and a loose everything scenario if he doesn't move the nets. I like popping onto the atlantic yards report and following it all there, it's a rather interesting perspective on things. The irony of all this is that Ratner is similar to developers that we have seen in Newark, nothing gets done without lots of our tax dollars.

Second is the competition for North Jersey's arena market which is something both the NJSEA and Vanderbeak want to get under control. The thought process from the Devils is that over time people would rather be at the more modern arena when pricing is taken out of equation. I a can assure you the real fights will start when the NJSEA tries to "modernize or update" the IZOD and throw more of our tax dollars into the dump.

As for Bergen County Pols, yes both they and the state overlook the huge losses that are caused by the NJSEA but in the end they are treated like a subsidy which is what Politicians love to do. There is and has been a bias against Newark for quite sometime and it's unfortunately rather shortsighted, people in the burbs think they can just cut Newark off and forget it's a decent junk of NJs population. Any shutting down of the IZOD would have to result in another boondogle project to appease power hungry politicians in North Jersey.

The ont good part of all this is the Devils feel they have now properly restructured their management to cut out problems they had had while AEG was running everything. I still stand by the opinion (however biased it is) that the staff at the Pru is infinitely better than anything I deal with at the Meadowlands (who's employees reak of government entitlement jobs, IMO).
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#37 TheIceDog

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 10:44 AM

I think basketball is a joke sport and should be made illegal.

Honnestly the most pointless major sport out there.


Not even close. Although I am not a huge basketball fan there is nothing worse than soccer, especially the US league, MLS(?). Now that sport is a joke.

They need to shorten the field in half, stop with all the embellishing of non-injuries during the slightest bit of contact, increase scoring and have more activity as witnessed by that college girl who was suspended, ie; hair pulling, chest punching, groin kneeing, etc., :yea:

Would the prudential center be able to survive just off of 82 booked nights a year?


No, not with the debt load they or any other arena for that matter, carries.
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#38 TheIceDog

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:21 AM

The major problem is the shortage of revenue at The Meadowlands where the racetrack helped carry the arena as well as the stadium. The entire horse racing industry is not doing well and this is why so many tracks have become racinos (adding slot machines at the racetracks) which is carrying them along.

There is state law that no gambling is permitted outside the jurisdiction of Atlantic City was provides for a difficult situation. Atlantic City needs to be supported as it is not only an economic engine for Southern NJ but for the entire state as well. The revenues allow the CRDA (http://www.njcrda.com/pages/Home.aspx) to invest in other ecomomic projects as well as housing redevelopment, public works projects, etc. The money also flows throughout the state in the form of senior citizen assistance, utility payment assistance, etc.

What needs to be done is that Atlantic City needs to continue to diversify with some of the outstanding developments already in place, such as the huge (and expanding) downtown shopping district, The Walk (http://www.acoutlets.com/) as well as The Pier (http://www.thepiersh...odesk/visitors/).

Now that Bader Field Municipal Airport (http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bader_Field) is closed the state should force Atlantic City to NOT develope such a massive and valuable piece of real state into more casinos. This property is off the beach/ocean side and along the back bays and waterways. What they should do is embrace Atlantic City's rich maritime history and develope a large scale nautical village complete with a state of the art marina, nautical themed restaurants and shops, sailing schools, etc.

All of this to say that the owners of the Meadowlands, the NJS&E Authority, have financial problems of there own and there is no possible way that the state could "bulldoze" the old Byrne (Izod) arena while they still carry debt. Not unless you would like your already spiraling property taxes to go even higher or add another 1/4 percent to the sales tax, increase to the gasoline tax, etc.

Not only did the Devils need the Prudential Center to survive, the city of Newark needed it as well. The Rock really could use the Nets and I believe that Jeff Vanderbeek believed all along that in the end the Nets would call Newark home. He, as well as I, did not believe that the courts would ramrod the Brooklyn project up the asses of that area's residents and business owners. I'm sure he also felt like I do that the courts would never have permitted NYC MTA to sell off their property to Rattner at a price less than market value which in turn screws every New York State taxpayer, but they did!

Now there are problems. The Prudential Center needs additional revenue to survive and the Izod needs the same to pay off their debt. I'm not sure there is enough to go around especially as the "super bands" age and retire. There won't be Bruce Springsteen and the E Sreet Band to sell out a dozen shows nor a Bon Jovi or U2. The music industry is changing and not apparently for the better. Also, there are only so many ice skating tour events to go around and one circus. It's going to be an arduous task to keep everything in the black.
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M. Michael Talty February 27, 2009

#39 Masked Fan

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 08:00 PM

Too bad I'm so selfish as a Devils fan that my biggest reason for saying "stay out, Nets" is that I don't want to see any of the decorations inside The Rock get altered. I love the fact that it's Devils-themed pretty much everywhere. I'd hate to see what gets changed over if the Nets move in. Basketball jerseys hanging up on some of the walls instead of hockey jerseys? Painting over the "small-headed" hockey players? (actually, that might not be so bad). And adding Dr. J to the NJ mural would be pretty cool. But overall, I just worry about the Nets' marketing taking over.

Again, like I said, totally selfish of me. But dammit, that's how I'm looking at this.

If this is the long-term solution to ensuring the Devils stay in NJ, then I'm all for it... concessions and all. But if it's a short two-year fix, the Devils better hold strong on interior choices.

Thanks for pulling this post out of my mind and posting it for me.
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