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How much is Kovalchuk REALLY worth?


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#21 Derek21

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 01:39 AM

It wouldn't surprize me if the rags trade gaborik and sign kovalchuk.


Not a chance. The Great Gabby is a better player. The risk is always health but we're all day to day. So far, so good. Otherwise, they'd be dead last. The more likely scenario is they somehow free enough room to add Kovalchuk next summer. Right now, they lack scorers. If a few of our prospects (Grachev, Stepan, Bourque, Hagelin) pan out, that could change. Count me in the Jerry/Tri corner on Kovy. He is a superstar who can flat out snipe. A lethal PP threat. But he doesn't kill penalties and takes shifts off. Perfect example was the lazy effort on McAmmond's winner. He didn't even try and it cost his team. That's their captain. Unacceptable. Atlanta is building something, adding some of his comrades and a blueline that features Bogosian and Enstrom. I love Peverley. What a gem (waivers-Nsh). Here's the big question. With the two sides far apart, will they risk it to make the playoffs? Those gates mean a lot. Retaining Kovy is huge for their fanbase. Unless they get a great return and by that, I mean good young NHLer, elite prospect, 1st rd pick, it makes the decision easier to swallow. They can't afford to screw this up.

Edited by Derek21, 24 December 2009 - 01:40 AM.

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#22 Devs4LIFE

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:20 AM

I think the smartest thing for Atlanta to do is trade Kovy and try to get back some players that would make them a more complete team i.e. first line center and a top four defenseman.
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#23 Prucenterrules

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:24 AM

I think the smartest thing for Atlanta to do is trade Kovy and try to get back some players that would make them a more complete team i.e. first line center and a top four defenseman.

They need a name like kovalchuk to keep fans coming to their games.
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#24 Jerrydevil

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:47 AM

They need a name like kovalchuk to keep fans coming to their games.


They'd do better at the gate with a winning team.
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#25 Triumph

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 11:00 AM

They'd do better at the gate with a winning team.


without kovalchuk they're not going to have one.

that hossa deal really worked out, huh? and that's pretty much the most they can expect to get for kovalchuk.
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#26 Jerrydevil

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 01:59 PM

without kovalchuk they're not going to have one.

that hossa deal really worked out, huh? and that's pretty much the most they can expect to get for kovalchuk.


They are in a very, very tough spot, that's for sure.
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#27 HellOnICE

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:05 PM

without kovalchuk they're not going to have one.

that hossa deal really worked out, huh? and that's pretty much the most they can expect to get for kovalchuk.


Tri, if Waddell knew what to ask for ...the Hossa deal might've worked out. He got crap for Hossa.
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#28 Voros19

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 02:27 PM

Kovalchuk is worth $10M. A top five talent in the NHL, capable of scoring 50 consistently. You can make that claim for one, maybe two other players.

Anyone who uses +/- to assess defensively ability is moronic.
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#29 Jerrydevil

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 03:09 PM

Kovalchuk is worth $10M. A top five talent in the NHL, capable of scoring 50 consistently. You can make that claim for one, maybe two other players.

Anyone who uses +/- to assess defensively ability is moronic.


I think it can't be the ONLY indicator. But I stated my case that it's damning for Kovalchuk to have no plus seasons with Atlanta when Hossa had two of them in the plus-15 range. Even Marc Savard managed a plus-7 season. Plus, I go with what my eyes tell me. He's a floater when his team doesn't have the puck. He's not worth $10 million for a team that wants to win. He's only worth $10 million because some misguided team will give him the money.
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#30 Triumph

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 03:34 PM

Tri, if Waddell knew what to ask for ...the Hossa deal might've worked out. He got crap for Hossa.


huh? no. waddell got a lot of different stuff, which is what an organization that doesn't have any ability to draft needs. if the trade goes well, they plug up a lot of organizational holes. if it doesn't, they may get close to nothing.

there's only a few teams that would have wanted hossa - TG rammed that 'lou was in the mix for hossa' down our throats - could our offer have even beaten the one the penguins came up with? it's very difficult to make this sort of a deal in a salary cap era - you're not going to have deals like morrison and pederson for mogilny anymore. teams aren't giving up top-level future NHL talent for rentals - they need those players to compete.

Edited by Triumph, 24 December 2009 - 03:36 PM.

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#31 Derek21

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 04:47 PM

They'd do better at the gate with a winning team.


The problem is exactly what Prucent and Tri already have indicated along with myself. Without Kovy, why should Thrasher fans go? He means a lot to that franchise. This ain't Hossa. It's their top banana. Atlanta has only made the playoffs once. They have a good enough team to go for it. Selling their most marketable player? Eh. If they could add another piece, they'd be in the top 6 with a chance. The argument against is that they're not better than the elite 3 (NJD, Pit, Wsh). Their fanbase has never seen a playoff win and are starved for it. Winning a round would mean a lot. Perhaps it would convince Kovalchuk to stay. There's a huge risk bc you don't want to lose a homegrown star for zilch. Whatever they decide will be extremely tough.
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#32 Voros19

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 04:49 PM

I think it can't be the ONLY indicator. But I stated my case that it's damning for Kovalchuk to have no plus seasons with Atlanta when Hossa had two of them in the plus-15 range. Even Marc Savard managed a plus-7 season. Plus, I go with what my eyes tell me. He's a floater when his team doesn't have the puck. He's not worth $10 million for a team that wants to win. He's only worth $10 million because some misguided team will give him the money.


That proves absolutely nothing.

Plus minus measures productivity, not defensive acumen. It has a ton of noise since +/- is affected by teammates, quality of competition, and goaltending (this variable should not matter much over a large enough sample, although a season's worth isn't big enough in my opinion). Kovalchuk and Hossa did not have identical linemates and opponents, so you're argument is useless. In addition Triumph already stated that Hossa's presence on the penalty kill would artificially inflate his +/- compared to Kovalchuk's. Finally, wingers do not have a tremendous effect on preventing goals from being scored. That responsibility lies with defensemen and centers, so don't immediately suspect that differences in +/- among two wingers will be because of their defensive ability.

And another thing. Hossa is known as an extremely good defensive player, so it's logical that he would have a higher +/- than Kovalchuk (ignoring all the points above). The fact that he has a lower +/- doesn't automatically characterize Kovalchuk as bad defensively, or a floater. Most Atlanta fans recognize the fact that he has matured as a hockey player over the last several years and is fairly responsible in all facets of the game. You're touting a stereotype from 2004.

Edited by Voros19, 24 December 2009 - 04:51 PM.

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#33 Prucenterrules

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 06:30 PM

And another thing. Hossa is known as an extremely good defensive player, so it's logical that he would have a higher +/- than Kovalchuk (ignoring all the points above). The fact that he has a lower +/- doesn't automatically characterize Kovalchuk as bad defensively, or a floater. Most Atlanta fans recognize the fact that he has matured as a hockey player over the last several years and is fairly responsible in all facets of the game. You're touting a stereotype from 2004.

kovalchuk isn't necessarily a floater but he needs to get better at backchecking. The good teams win because they can score and stop the other team. Just look at Zach, he is our top point getter and cares about keeping the puck out of our net just as much.
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#34 MantaRay

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 07:15 PM

They need a name like kovalchuk to keep fans coming to their games.



Have you watched televised games from Atlanta??? He doesn't make a difference. Trade him, as he is lazy and one-dimensional, get some picks and actually build a winner.
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#35 Voros19

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 07:23 PM

Have you watched televised games from Atlanta??? He doesn't make a difference. Trade him, as he is lazy and one-dimensional, get some picks and actually build a winner.


There's no way you actually believe what you post.
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#36 ice dog

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 08:09 PM

Have you watched televised games from Atlanta??? He doesn't make a difference. Trade him, as he is lazy and one-dimensional, get some picks and actually build a winner.


i agree! he does not back check worth a damn...
atlanta needs to trade him and get more colby armstrong type players and then they will be on the right path to success!
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#37 Voros19

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 09:34 PM

i agree! he does not back check worth a damn...
atlanta needs to trade him and get more colby armstrong type players and then they will be on the right path to success!


I can't tell if this is a joke.

Atlanta needs to trade their 50 goal scorer and bring in more 30-40 point third line wingers? That's the path to success?
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#38 devlman

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 10:42 PM

about 10 mill.
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#39 pumpkin cutter

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 11:02 PM

he needs to goto the khl and leave us alone. hes worth 6 /7 tops..
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#40 Devilsfan118

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Posted 24 December 2009 - 11:08 PM

Certainly not more than 8. I can't imagine him wanting to stay in atlanta either; I get the impression he doesn't enjoy being the only real offensive threat on a team (and that's what he'll stay as in atlanta for at least the next few seasons). The only way he'll stay is if they offer him that 10m contract, which I can't imagine them not doing.

I'd personally like to see him moved to a contender, and see atlanta get some legit young talent / high picks in return. Who knows, they could become the blackhawks of the east, if you will.
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