Jump to content

Photo

Any boxing fans in here?


  • Please log in to reply
46 replies to this topic

#21 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 07 January 2010 - 12:02 PM

I'm curious about the science behind the testing. Pacquiao agreed to blood tests 24 days before and immediately after the fight, leaving a 24-day window without testing. But if he took anything during those 24 days, wouldn't it show in the test taken immediately after the fight?

If so, he probably refused because random testing any time in that 24-day window could be a distraction from a very strict and rigid training period. If not, it certainly seems like he's hiding something.

Either way, it looks like Pacquiao conceded in some places while Mayweather gave absolutely no ground, which makes one wonder why he ever agreed to mediation in the first place.

Both sides are smelling fishy.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#22 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 07 January 2010 - 03:08 PM

I'm curious about the science behind the testing. Pacquiao agreed to blood tests 24 days before and immediately after the fight, leaving a 24-day window without testing. But if he took anything during those 24 days, wouldn't it show in the test taken immediately after the fight?

If so, he probably refused because random testing any time in that 24-day window could be a distraction from a very strict and rigid training period. If not, it certainly seems like he's hiding something.

Either way, it looks like Pacquiao conceded in some places while Mayweather gave absolutely no ground, which makes one wonder why he ever agreed to mediation in the first place.

Both sides are smelling fishy.



What is fishy about Mayweather? He wanted random drug testing throughout and Pac refused. Mayweather would be subjected to the SAME tests himself. Pac left a $40 million payday on the table for what? If you have nothing to hide, you do whatever it takes to get that kind of money for 1 fight....
  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#23 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 07 January 2010 - 04:49 PM

What is fishy about Mayweather? He wanted random drug testing throughout and Pac refused.


Let's go back to the start here ... the PED claim is completely unfounded. Mayweather Jr., on the other hand, has long been criticized for avoiding his most challenging opponents. Is it really so hard to believe that this is all just one big diversion from a PR wiz like Mayweather Jr. (and Sr., for that matter, who started this whole PED fiasco last fall)?

Mayweather would be subjected to the SAME tests himself.


Mayweather agreed to be subjected to the same testing because he knew Pacquiao wasn't gonna agree to his ridiculous, unprecedented demands. It's like agreeing to get shot in the face as long as Pacquiao agreed to get shot in the face too.

Pac left a $40 million payday on the table for what?


Actually, it was Mayweather Jr. who walked away from the payday. Both sides agreed to mediation. Pacquiao accepted what the mediator put on the table (he actually started compromising before mediation even began). Mayweather Jr. did not.

Going into this, Mayweather wanted blood tests at random leading right up to the day of the fight. Pacquiao was willing to be tested as late as 30 days before the fight. The mediator put 24 days before the fight on the table. That ain't exactly in the middle. What does that tell you about Mayweather's demands?

If you have nothing to hide, you do whatever it takes to get that kind of money for 1 fight....


Neither one of these guys comes off smelling like roses here. But Pacquiao did more to make this fight happen than Mayweather Jr. did.

Edited by DaneykoIsGod, 07 January 2010 - 04:58 PM.

  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#24 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 07 January 2010 - 11:13 PM

1. Regardless of the PED claim being unfounded, Pac should not be so adamantly against the tests. Alot of people have suspected something of him due to the fact that he moved several weight classes in one year and has not missed a beat. He has in with a natural welter and did not seem to feel Cotto's punches at all, while others who have been in the division have been badly battered by them. In answer to your question "Is it really so hard to believe that this is all just one big diversion from a PR wiz like Mayweather Jr. (and Sr., for that matter, who started this whole PED fiasco last fall)?" YES, it is! Mayweather truly believes he would beat Pac, and is all about making money. His nickname is "Money Mayweather" after all.

2. How could he KNOW that Pacquiao would not agree to the testing? This request may be "unprecedented", but for a fight of this magnitude Floyd wanted to ensure there was a level playing field. Many other boxers have come out and said that they would accept the tests to clear their name and end all doubts. Pac agreed to the blood tests, but wanted a different time frame. To compare a simple blood test to "getting shot in the face" is beyond absurd. This type of analogy just makes one look severely foolish.


3. Floyd did not walk away from the payday. He still wants the fight pending Manny taking the tests. Pac's people are putting further lies out in the media to cover this whole thing up some more. The mediator did NOT put anything on the table. See: HERE "The Mediator himself did not formulate, recommend or issue a Mediator's Proposal. The Mediator did not make an evaluation or finding that any one of the many proposals considered by the parties was the correct protocol." This was all BS from Arum and Team Pacquiao. It all comes down to: IF PACQUIAO HAS NOTHING TO HIDE, WHY NOT TAKE THE TESTS AND MAKE $40 MILLION?!?!?!? This fight not happening is ENTIRELY Pac's fault. I was a big fan of his too, but this is just a complete mess. In closing, "But Pacquiao did more to make this fight happen than Mayweather Jr. did." NO, he did not. Just take the SAME tests Floyd would be subjected to, and the fight would be on. It is insane to me that anyone can place any of the blame for this on Mayweather. Just because he wants to make sure it is a fair fight? As I mentioned previously, many boxers would like to see this type of testing put in place for EVERY fight.
  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#25 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 12:05 PM

Aw come on, man. You're buying everything the Mayweather Camp is saying while claiming everything coming from the Pacquiao Camp is B.S. That's just ridiculous. It's boxing, both camps are full of sh!t.

It looks like the blood-test-free window of days prior to the fight is the only issue right now. At first Pacquiao refused blood tests at all, then conceded to a 30-day window, then further conceded to 24 days. It just came out today that Mayweather countered with a 14-day window, which now puts the onus back on Pacquiao. So it looks like my previous indignation at Mayweather for agreeing to mediation just to refuse to budge was unfounded.

I still think it's ridiculous for Mayweather to make these demands when he never did the same for De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, etc. The only grounds for his claims are that Pacquiao moved up in weight class and didn't suck afterwards. Well, um, Mayweather's done that too. Was he juiced for the De La Hoya fight? Hatton switched between Light Welterweight and Welterweight a couple times before moving back up for the Mayweather bout without missing a step. Where were the PED suspicions for the then-undefeated Hatton? His last opponent, Marquez, moved up in weight class four times, with the fourth time being for the Mayweather bout (only to have Mayweather weigh in too heavy, then have the rules changed so his weight would be OK). Where was the demand for Marquez to comply to these random blood testing standards? All of these were Vegas fights ... Vegas's standard urine testing was good enough for Mayweather for all of these bouts, why the sudden change? None of this seems suspicious to you at all?

Sure, Pacquiao could have complied immediately and we'd have a fight to talk about instead of all this bickering. Because he didn't, he comes off looking like he has something to hide. But why did Mayweather have to make this the most difficult process ever? To say Pacquiao is the only one to blame for this when he was ready and willing to fight by the same Vegas standards that Mayweather had for his previous five bouts is ... well ... it's just weird.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#26 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 01:25 PM

Aw come on, man. You're buying everything the Mayweather Camp is saying while claiming everything coming from the Pacquiao Camp is B.S. That's just ridiculous. It's boxing, both camps are full of sh!t.

It looks like the blood-test-free window of days prior to the fight is the only issue right now. At first Pacquiao refused blood tests at all, then conceded to a 30-day window, then further conceded to 24 days. It just came out today that Mayweather countered with a 14-day window, which now puts the onus back on Pacquiao. So it looks like my previous indignation at Mayweather for agreeing to mediation just to refuse to budge was unfounded.

I still think it's ridiculous for Mayweather to make these demands when he never did the same for De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, etc. The only grounds for his claims are that Pacquiao moved up in weight class and didn't suck afterwards. Well, um, Mayweather's done that too. Was he juiced for the De La Hoya fight? Hatton switched between Light Welterweight and Welterweight a couple times before moving back up for the Mayweather bout without missing a step. Where were the PED suspicions for the then-undefeated Hatton? His last opponent, Marquez, moved up in weight class four times, with the fourth time being for the Mayweather bout (only to have Mayweather weigh in too heavy, then have the rules changed so his weight would be OK). Where was the demand for Marquez to comply to these random blood testing standards? All of these were Vegas fights ... Vegas's standard urine testing was good enough for Mayweather for all of these bouts, why the sudden change? None of this seems suspicious to you at all?

Sure, Pacquiao could have complied immediately and we'd have a fight to talk about instead of all this bickering. Because he didn't, he comes off looking like he has something to hide. But why did Mayweather have to make this the most difficult process ever? To say Pacquiao is the only one to blame for this when he was ready and willing to fight by the same Vegas standards that Mayweather had for his previous five bouts is ... well ... it's just weird.



They are both full of BS to some extent, but Pac's camp made claims about what the mediator suggested when in fact the mediator made no recommendation whatsoever. Mayweather did not make these demands of anyone else because he knew that A. He would beat them easily where Pac is somewhat of a challenge and B. These guys did not gain massive bulk within a year and seemingly walk through a big punching welterweight in Cotto. It is just suspicious. Hatton did not go up several weight classes in a year and look like a machine the way Pac has. He does not feel punches from men that are naturally larger than him. Also, the magnitude of THIS fight is 10x any other previous one. Pound for pound supremacy is on the line, as well as Floyd's "0". (as protected as it may be) To me, it is simple. Floyd made a seemingly unusual request. However, if you were innocent...and for $40 MILLION....wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?

Edited by ThreeCups, 08 January 2010 - 01:29 PM.

  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#27 Beezer34

Beezer34

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,938 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 01:56 PM

...for $40 MILLION?! Wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?


What is May's team knows something? Maybe Pac is on the juice. :noclue:
  • 0

"...quicker than Esa Tikkanen's tenure with the New Jersey Devils." -Brian Duff (regarding Ted Saskin's NHLPA authority) smiley-happy112.gif


#28 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 02:31 PM

They are both full of BS to some extent, but Pac's camp made claims about what the mediator suggested when in fact the mediator made no recommendation whatsoever. Mayweather did not make these demands of anyone else because he knew that A. He would beat them easily where Pac is somewhat of a challenge and B. These guys did not gain massive bulk within a year and seemingly walk through a big punching welterweight in Cotto. It is just suspicious. Hatton did not go up several weight classes in a year and look like a machine the way Pac has. He does not feel punches from men that are naturally larger than him. Also, the magnitude of THIS fight is 10x any other previous one. Pound for pound supremacy is on the line, as well as Floyd's "0". (as protected as it may be) To me, it is simple. Floyd made a seemingly unusual request. However, if you were innocent...and for $40 MILLION....wouldn't you just agree to the tests to get the fight made?


You're right about the talk coming from Pacquiao's camp about the mediator. But the point I was trying to make is that fighters move up and down weight classes all the time, Mayweather included. Just because Pacquiao was successful means he must be juicing? By these same standards ... De La Hoya's punches didn't seem to hurt Mayweather very much. It's pretty hypocritical of him to throw these allegations on Pacquiao when they could have applied to him as well.

With the exception of Cotto, Pacquiao has fought a lot of the same big guys as Mayweather: De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez. And he enjoyed the same, if not more, success against those guys as Mayweather (Mayweather beat De La Hoya on the cards, Pacquiao got a TKO in the 8th round; Mayweather got a TKO of Hatton in the 10th, Pacquiao KOed him in the 2nd). But Mayweather's notorious reluctance to fight legit challengers has been cited by many as why he never fought Cotto. Maybe it's this whole thing is sour grapes because Pacquiao made doing what Mayweather was afraid to do look easy? That's a stretch, I admit. But it's fun to speculate.

The bolded part I think is the most important thing here. Mayweather is so good because, above all else, he may be the smartest boxer out there. He doesn't try to outpunch guys who are better punchers, he'll outbox someone and win on the cards when he has to ... the guy is so successful because he knows his opponents so well and doesn't put himself in a position to lose. To me this all looks like an effort to either A) avoid fighting his greatest challenge yet and keep the all important 0 you mentioned, or B) get the fight, but throw random blood-letting interruptions into his opponent's training regimen and get in his head by creating a huge distraction. Pretty genius, really.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#29 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 02:46 PM

You're right about the talk coming from Pacquiao's camp about the mediator. But the point I was trying to make is that fighters move up and down weight classes all the time, Mayweather included. Just because Pacquiao was successful means he must be juicing? By these same standards ... De La Hoya's punches didn't seem to hurt Mayweather very much. It's pretty hypocritical of him to throw these allegations on Pacquiao when they could have applied to him as well.

With the exception of Cotto, Pacquiao has fought a lot of the same big guys as Mayweather: De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez. And he enjoyed the same, if not more, success against those guys as Mayweather (Mayweather beat De La Hoya on the cards, Pacquiao got a TKO in the 8th round; Mayweather got a TKO of Hatton in the 10th, Pacquiao KOed him in the 2nd). But Mayweather's notorious reluctance to fight legit challengers has been cited by many as why he never fought Cotto. Maybe it's this whole thing is sour grapes because Pacquiao made doing what Mayweather was afraid to do look easy? That's a stretch, I admit. But it's fun to speculate.

The bolded part I think is the most important thing here. Mayweather is so good because, above all else, he may be the smartest boxer out there. He doesn't try to outpunch guys who are better punchers, he'll outbox someone and win on the cards when he has to ... the guy is so successful because he knows his opponents so well and doesn't put himself in a position to lose. To me this all looks like an effort to either A) avoid fighting his greatest challenge yet and keep the all important 0 you mentioned, or B) get the fight, but throw random blood-letting interruptions into his opponent's training regimen and get in his head by creating a huge distraction. Pretty genius, really.



Fighters move up and down in weight all the time, correct. But they do not do it in the fashion that Pacquiao has. Pac fought on 3-15-08 at 130 pounds vs Marquez, then at 135 on 6-28-08 vs Diaz, and finally 142 vs De La Hoya on 12-6-08. He went up 2 weight classes in 9 months. To go from 130 to 142 in 9 months is insane. (it is nearly 11% of his body weight) 12 pounds is not alot for a heavyweight, or even a cruiserweight. But when you are a small fighter and you bulk up that quickly, it will certainly raise questions. The De La Hoya/Mayweather fight was at a catchweight only a few pounds heavier than Floyd's regular weight class. He probably walked around at about the weight for the fight, so no cutting was necessary. Floyd has never constantly weight up weight classes and demolished guys in doing so as Pac has. I really do not think Floyd requested the tests for any reason other than the fact that he did not want to risk his life and unblemished record in the ring against a man on some sort of performance enhancing drugs. Floyd is very cocky, and I am sure he believes he would beat Pac. He also is money hungry, hence the moniker "Money Mayweather". He would not walk away from a $40 million payday over something so silly as not taking a drug test. How much of a "distraction" would these drug tests be? Floyd would have to take the SAME tests. I am tired of hearing the "regimen" excuse. If both guys have to do it, it should not be a big deal. Are you going to squander $40 million over a regimen?
  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#30 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 03:19 PM

The jump in weight leading to the De La Hoya fight does raise some eyebrows. I can't deny that. But the De La Hoya bout isn't the one that Mayweather Sr. opened his mouth about and got this whole steroids train rolling. It's the Cotto fight. He was 142 lbs. for De La Hoya (12/6/08), 138 for Hatton (5/2/09) and back up to 144 for Cotto (11/14/09). They're making it seem like he made this jump in weight classes and then destroyed someone he had no business destroying at a weight he wasn't used to, and that simply isn't true. He had two previous fights against solid competition at a his higher weight before Cotto.

Does Manny look suspicious? Certainly. But you're painting Mayweather as a guy who's only character flaw is that he likes money. This is a guy who has been notorious for ducking tough competition. His latest "retirement" was deemed by many to be a ploy to avoid Cotto. He ducked Mosley last year. He ducked Margarito in '06. Why is it so easy to look at Pacquiao and think steroids, but it's so difficult to look at Mayweather and think he's looking for a way out? One has a track record with what he's accused of, the other doesn't.

I won't deny that Pacquiao seems suspicious in all of this. But to say that Mayweather is free from suspicion/blame just strikes me as odd.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#31 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 03:26 PM

The jump in weight leading to the De La Hoya fight does raise some eyebrows. I can't deny that. But the De La Hoya bout isn't the one that Mayweather Sr. opened his mouth about and got this whole steroids train rolling. It's the Cotto fight. He was 142 lbs. for De La Hoya (12/6/08), 138 for Hatton (5/2/09) and back up to 144 for Cotto (11/14/09). They're making it seem like he made this jump in weight classes and then destroyed someone he had no business destroying at a weight he wasn't used to, and that simply isn't true. He had two previous fights against solid competition at a his higher weight before Cotto.

Does Manny look suspicious? Certainly. But you're painting Mayweather as a guy who's only character flaw is that he likes money. This is a guy who has been notorious for ducking tough competition. His latest "retirement" was deemed by many to be a ploy to avoid Cotto. He ducked Mosley last year. He ducked Margarito in '06. Why is it so easy to look at Pacquiao and think steroids, but it's so difficult to look at Mayweather and think he's looking for a way out? One has a track record with what he's accused of, the other doesn't.

I won't deny that Pacquiao seems suspicious in all of this. But to say that Mayweather is free from suspicion/blame just strikes me as odd.


Floyd Sr. said something after the Cotto fight because Manny is naturally much smaller than Cotto. Cotto is also regarded as one of the heavier punches in the division. The way Pac walked through Cotto's shots seemingly UNFAZED did not see human to lots of people. Cotto probably walks around damn near 170! And here was Pac someone who probably now walks around 145ish just walking through his punches like nothing. I will say Mayweather has picked his fights carefully. HOWEVER, my biggest problem with people trying to say he was looking for an excuse out: COULD MAYWEATHER REALLY HAVE THOUGHT PACQUIAO WOULD REFUSE THE TESTS AND LEAVE $40 MILLION ON THE TABLE?!? I do not think so. He probably expected Pac to take the tests and have the fight go on as usual. With what is at risk here I would want to make sure there was an even playing field as well. These guys risk their LIVES in the ring. Would you want to get in there with a guy who was on some sort of drugs? I do agree that Mayweather has stayed clear of certain guys. But that is comparing apples to oranges. (steroids accusation and "ducking" people) None of those guys would have generated remotely the money that this fight would. To me, it is a black and white issue. Pac refused to submit to the testing, and now the fight is off. If there was nothing to hide and he was truly clean, this would have been a non issue and we would all be glued to our TVs on March 13th....
  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#32 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 04:19 PM

COULD MAYWEATHER REALLY HAVE THOUGHT PACQUIAO WOULD REFUSE THE TESTS AND LEAVE $40 MILLION ON THE TABLE?!?


That's a bad way to look at it. That's justifying Mayweather demanding absolutely anything he wants, no matter how ridiculous, and since there's $40 million on the table Pacquiao would be a fool to refuse it. Mayweather demands Pacquiao fight one-handed ... hey, there's $40M on the table! How can he turn it down?! The money on the table doesn't justify the demands one person pulls from thin air.

Again, weight jumps, however dramatic, are nothing new. Michael Spinks jumped 243/4 lbs. in six months before beating Larry Holmes on the cards in 1985. The greatest weight class story of all-time was Henry Armstrong, who over a period of 10 months won the belts for the featherweight, welterweight and lightweight divisions (this was back when boxing only had eight divisions) from 1937-38. These guys didn't just jump weight classes, but they won (the Spinks fight was Ring Magazine's Upset Of The Year ... boxrec.com is fun). Pacquiao's win over Cotto is far from unprecedented. Mayweather's demands, however, are. To say it's because his life is on the line ... well, boxers put their lives on the line for every fight. By that logic, shouldn't Mayweather have demanded these tests for every fight?

And it really isn't apples and oranges. They're the reasons the two boxers have for not wanting this fight. They're one and the same in this instance, because they both are having the same effect on the fight. It isn't fair to discount one and place all your support behind the other. That's favortism. You can say this fight is off because Pacquiao refused testing, and you'd be right. You could also say that this fight isn't happening because Mayweather made demands that no boxer has ever made, and you'd also be right. To place all support behind one and completely blame the other is subjective.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#33 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 04:28 PM

That's a bad way to look at it. That's justifying Mayweather demanding absolutely anything he wants, no matter how ridiculous, and since there's $40 million on the table Pacquiao would be a fool to refuse it. Mayweather demands Pacquiao fight one-handed ... hey, there's $40M on the table! How can he turn it down?! The money on the table doesn't justify the demands one person pulls from thin air.

Again, weight jumps, however dramatic, are nothing new. Michael Spinks jumped 243/4 lbs. in six months before beating Larry Holmes on the cards in 1985. The greatest weight class story of all-time was Henry Armstrong, who over a period of 10 months won the belts for the featherweight, welterweight and lightweight divisions (this was back when boxing only had eight divisions) from 1937-38. These guys didn't just jump weight classes, but they won (the Spinks fight was Ring Magazine's Upset Of The Year ... boxrec.com is fun). Pacquiao's win over Cotto is far from unprecedented. Mayweather's demands, however, are. To say it's because his life is on the line ... well, boxers put their lives on the line for every fight. By that logic, shouldn't Mayweather have demanded these tests for every fight?

And it really isn't apples and oranges. They're the reasons the two boxers have for not wanting this fight. They're one and the same in this instance, because they both are having the same effect on the fight. It isn't fair to discount one and place all your support behind the other. That's favortism. You can say this fight is off because Pacquiao refused testing, and you'd be right. You could also say that this fight isn't happening because Mayweather made demands that no boxer has ever made, and you'd also be right. To place all support behind one and completely blame the other is subjective.



Obviously if Mayweather requested Pacquiao to fight in a tu-tu with a blond wig and lipstick on, that would be ridiculous demand. To take the same drug tests Floyd would take to make sure there is no foul play by either side hardly constitutes a "ridiculous" demand to me. I realize others have jumped weight and won. But in this era I have never seen a naturally small man such as Pac gain so much mass and just destroy opponents who have been in the larger weight classes for years. Yes boxers do put their life on the line for every fight. However, none of Floyd's previous opponents have done what Pac did, and looked so brutalizing in doing so. He obviously had an inkling that Pac might be taking something, so he wanted stringent testing to ensure there was nothing going on. Seems pretty reasonable. "You can say this fight is off because Pacquiao refused testing, and you'd be right. You could also say that this fight isn't happening because Mayweather made demands that no boxer has ever made, and you'd also be right. To place all support behind one and completely blame the other is subjective." I see what you are saying there, BUT, the Floyd request seems very minimal to me in terms of the financial gain for both of them and importance of this fight for the sport as a whole. It may seem ridiculous to some people that Floyd requested this, but it makes perfect sense to me. Why not make sure no PED's are involved? What does not make sense is that a fighter who supposedly did not taking anything would refuse the tests and throw away $40 million.

EDIT: I will add that I WAS a big Pac fan before all of this....

Edited by ThreeCups, 08 January 2010 - 04:28 PM.

  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#34 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 04:58 PM

I see what you are saying there, BUT, the Floyd request seems very minimal to me in terms of the financial gain for both of them and importance of this fight for the sport as a whole. It may seem ridiculous to some people that Floyd requested this, but it makes perfect sense to me. Why not make sure no PED's are involved? What does not make sense is that a fighter who supposedly did not taking anything would refuse the tests and throw away $40 million.

EDIT: I will add that I WAS a big Pac fan before all of this....


And this is just where people's opinions are gonna differ, I guess. To me, if this concern was this legit, and if random blood-testing all the way up until the day of the bout was the solution, then wouldn't it be the standard? Of course, it is boxing, the most corrupt sport out there. And of course, the testing Mayweather wants is the standard for the Olympics. Still, for a guy who ducks challenges to pull this on his toughest opponent yet simply as a diversionary tactic or mind game wouldn't surprise me. To me, if that was the case, it'd be the most brilliant boxing tactic since Ali's rope-a-dope.

I don't know much about the different PEDs out there and what kinds of tests they're designed to go undetected by. But I do know that blood tests show what was taken over a very small window of time, usually within 24 hours, while urine tests show a larger window of time, usually up to a few days (Nevada tests urine taken right before and after the fight). If they REALLY wanted to be serious, why not have hair tests done? They show what was taken for up to 90 days in most cases. No random tests, no interruption of training (sorry, I know you hate when that's brought up), no problem, right? If a fair fight is really what you're after, why not go that route? Why pick the type of test that is the most invasive and shows the smallest window of time? (Well, I guess he picked it because it's the Olympic standard. I'm gonna stop answering my own questions now.)

Before all of this, I was indifferent towards both boxers. Just wanted to see a good fight. If anything, I probably would have rooted for Pacquiao just because I think Mayweather's cerebral style of outboxing opponents is kinda boring to watch. But now I'm fed up with both of 'em. For a sport that's already struggling, this certainly ain't helping.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#35 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:10 PM

And now it looks like Pacquiao is going to fight Joshua Clottey.

With his fight against Floyd Mayweather Jr. all but off, Manny Pacquiao has instead agreed to fight Joshua Clottey on March 13 at a site to be determined, Pacquiao's camp said Friday.

Clottey's manager told ESPN.com's Dan Rafael that he spoke to Pacquiao's promoter, Top Rank's Bob Arum, on Friday about the fight's details but would only confirm a "seven-figure" purse.

"Josh is ecstatic about it," Vinny Scolpino told ESPN.com. "I think we can get this done in a couple of days. He's coming home [to New York from Ghana] on Monday."

The Pacquiao-Mayweather bout, which had also been tentatively set for March 13, was called off Wednesday night by Arum after mediation failed to resolve their issues over drug-testing protocol.

Clottey (35-3, 20 KOs) last fought in a split-decision loss to welterweight titlist Miguel Cotto on June 13, a fight many believed Clottey won.


http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4808708

So, does this actually happen? Or is it a ploy to get Mayweather to cave?

Don't know how I missed this in all the other articles, but something I didn't realize til reading this one was that both sides in the Mayweather/Pacquiao mess had agreed to unlimited random urine testing. So Pacquiao went from Vegas sanctioned urine testing right before and after the fight to unlimited random urine testing, one blood test the week of the kickoff press conference, another blood test no later than 24 days before the fight and another blood test right after the fight. That is an unholy sh!tload of drug testing.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#36 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 08 January 2010 - 09:49 PM

Also found this posted on the comments part under the ESPN article:

http://www.examiner....-enhancing-drug

This is not a baseless accusation. This is an article on the irony of Team Mayweather's accusations against Manny Pacquiao regarding the use of performance enhancing drugs.

The irony lies in the fact that "Money" has been using a banned substance in several states. It is however legal in Nevada but nonetheless gives a fighter a boost in his performance.

If Mayweather was to fight Pacquiao in Dallas, he would not be allowed to use Xycocaine. Inside Boxing wrote back in 2002, "Before the fight began, HBO’s Jim Lampley and George Foreman discussed hand injuries with references to Floyd’s recent hand problems. They said that Mayweather has been known to use hand-injected painkillers like Xylocaine, which is illegal in some states. Such painkillers could be more dangerous in the long term, since fighters with numbed hands hit harder since they cannot feel their hands,"


Also ...

Mayweather has a history of not fighting the best and as Pacquiao plans to move on to fight a tough and dangerous opponent in former IBF welterweight champ Joshua Clottey, whom a lot of my colleagues like Radio host John Chavez and boxing writer Brad Cooney says is "a way tougher fight than Mayweather for Pacquiao", isn't it a shame that talks within the Mayweather camp's next opponent is centered on #40 ranked welterweight (based on Boxrec.com) Matthew Hatton.

So who really ducked the mega-fight? The answer can be found as easily as using your common sense.


Since this article mentioned the BoxRec.com welterweight ratings, I thought I'd point out that Pacquiao is #1, Mayweather #2, and Clottey #7. For reference's sake.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#37 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 11 January 2010 - 11:15 AM

I'm sorry, even though it's kinda over I just can't look away from this Pacquiao-Mayweather drama.

Pacquiao-Clottey will be at that brand spankin' new mega-stadium in Dallas on March 13, the date originally set aside for Pacquiao-Mayweather.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4813862

Jerry Jones got his fight.

The owner of the Dallas Cowboys, who made a strong pitch to host the now-aborted Manny Pacquiao-Floyd Mayweather Jr. fight at Cowboys Stadium by offering a record $25 million site fee, landed the next best thing.

The new $1.2 billion state-of-the-art facility in Arlington, Texas, will host Pacquiao's March 13 pay-per-view welterweight title defense against Joshua Clottey.


Not to be one-upped, Mayweather's next bout (against a still TBD opponent) will also be on March 13.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4814829

Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Manny Pacquiao will still compete against each other on March 13, but not in the ring. Instead, they will be duking it out for pay-per-view buys.

Two days after Top Rank's Bob Arum, Pacquiao's promoter, announced plans for Pacquiao to defend his welterweight title against former titlist Joshua Clottey on March 13, Mayweather is making plans to fight on the same night.

While Pacquiao will face Clottey at Cowboys Stadium in Arlington, Texas, just outside of Dallas -- Arum concluded a deal with Cowboys owner Jerry Jones on Sunday -- Mayweather will face an opponent to be determined at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Golden Boy Promotions CEO Richard Schaefer told ESPN.com on Sunday night.


An interesting footnote here: Originally, the new Cowboys Stadium was a possible venue for the Pacquiao-Mayweather bout, but Mayweather's people cancelled their plans to visit the stadium to review it as a potential host. This is only interesting because the pain-killer Mayweather injects his hands with is illegal in Texas.

So we have (according to BoxRec.com) #1 Welterweight Pacquiao against #7 Welterweight Clottey.

The ESPN.com article has a list of Mayweather's (#2 Welterweight on BoxRec.com) potential opponents (I added BoxRec.com's rating in parentheses).

According to sources, Mayweather's list of potential opponents includes former junior welterweight titlist Paulie Malignaggi (#7 Junior Welterweight) and Golden Boy-promoted former lightweight titlist Nate Campbell (#3 Junior Welterweight), both smaller men than Mayweather, as well as former welterweight titlist Kermit Cintron (#2 Light Middleweight), who is a similar kind of opponent as Clottey is for Pacquiao. There is also a more remote possibility of Mayweather facing junior welterweight titlist Timothy Bradley Jr. (#1 Junior Welterweight), who has ties to Showtime, which may not want to let him walk away for a possible fight on rival HBO PPV.


There is a lot of potential for there to be some great boxing going on that night. Pacquiao-Clottey is being considered a very tough matchup while Mayweather has his eye on some highly-rated opponents, although most of them are smaller than he is. The possibility Mayweather-Cintron is very intriguing.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#38 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 30 January 2010 - 03:36 PM

Apparently Mayweather has his next fight, and it could be a doozy.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4870999

Shane Mosley and Floyd Mayweather Jr. have agreed to terms for a welterweight super fight, Mayweather adviser Leonard Ellerbe said Friday. Later Friday, Mosley signed his contract in Las Vegas, Mosley's attorney Judd Burstein told ESPN.com.

...

Mosley has agreed to undergo random blood and urine testing, as has Mayweather, Ellerbe said.

Mosley has admitted to using PEDs and was connected to the BALCO scandal. Although he publicly denied using PEDs for years, Mosley admitted during grand jury testimony, which was later released, that he used designer steroids "the clear" and "the cream" and injected himself with EPO, a blood oxygen enhancer, during the lead-up to his 2003 rematch with Oscar De La Hoya. Mosley said he took the steroids unknowingly.

"Floyd only wants to be sure of an even playing field no matter who he fights," Ellerbe said.


Very interesting. Should be a great fight!
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd

#39 ThreeCups

ThreeCups

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,323 posts

Posted 01 February 2010 - 11:25 AM

Apparently Mayweather has his next fight, and it could be a doozy.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4870999



Very interesting. Should be a great fight!



I am excited for this. Second best fight for Floyd to take after Pac Man. Mayweather 12 round decision....
  • 0

"I'm not drinking anymore of Lou's Kool-Aid. I'm fed up with it." - Mike Jefferson/Danton


#40 DaneykoIsGod

DaneykoIsGod

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,187 posts

Posted 01 February 2010 - 12:19 PM

And I'm glad this won't be on March 13 like Mayweather originally said his next bout would be. The only way it's good for the two biggest names in the sport to compete is in the ring, not against each other for ratings. I'm glad each fight will not only get it's own date, but plenty of time for their own build-up as well.
  • 0
Posted Image

"I don't like those Rangers fans from New Jersey." - Jim Dowd




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users