135 replies to this topic

[95Crash]

As for the who's good and who's bad, I think it was a little ambiguous at first but last night's episode really cemented the answer, at least to me, within the final scene. Given what the writers told us in the scene with Jacob and Richard and the wine bottle only to have MiB break it in the final scene pretty much put a stamp on where Jacob and MiB are on the scale of good and bad, although they do tend to blend into shades of gray every so often.

We were given a story by a character that is believed to be true, i.e. Jacob's metaphor with the bottle of wine. However, the writers then gave the audience a reassurance that the said metaphor was true by having another character illustrate the metaphor, to a degree, without knowledge of the metaphor, in this case MiB smashing the bottle.

At the risk of sounding dumb, can you -- or someone -- explain to me that wine bottle scene and the metaphor of which you speak? LOL

Maybe when I first watched it I was too tired to grasp the full meaning. Either that, or I'm a bit dim (I'm sure my wife would choose the latter).

[UnderDogX]

It was the scene where Jacob was explaining his side of the story to Richard. He basically likened hell, malevolence, or darkness to the wine in a glass bottle he was holding. Jacob told Richard that the wine or "darkness" is swirling in the bottle trying to get out but it couldn't because then it would spread. He then said that the island was the cork and kept that darkness from coming out of the bottle. Later on we see Richard give a white stone to MiB at the request of Jacob and it flashes back to the Hurley/Richard scene. But the final scene of the episode flashes back to Jacob and MiB again where Jacob asks why MiB wants to kill him and he says he wants to be free...Jacob does the song and dance about someone will replace him if MiB were to kill him to which MiB responds, "then I'll kill them." But lastly Jacob gives MiB the bottle of wine and says its something to pass the time and then says "see you around." Under his breath MiB says, "sooner than you think." And after Jacob leaves he holds the bottle by the neck and smashes it against the log he's sitting on....

That was my main point. MiB has no knowledge of the metaphor so its not something he's trying to say or do to persuade someone against believing. But he basically confirms the metaphor to the audience...and if the man who is trying to protect the island and keep evil from spreading isn't the good guy then I wouldn't begin to be able to guess who is.

[95Crash]

It was the scene where Jacob was explaining his side of the story to Richard. He basically likened hell, malevolence, or darkness to the wine in a glass bottle he was holding. Jacob told Richard that the wine or "darkness" is swirling in the bottle trying to get out but it couldn't because then it would spread. He then said that the island was the cork and kept that darkness from coming out of the bottle. Later on we see Richard give a white stone to MiB at the request of Jacob and it flashes back to the Hurley/Richard scene. But the final scene of the episode flashes back to Jacob and MiB again where Jacob asks why MiB wants to kill him and he says he wants to be free...Jacob does the song and dance about someone will replace him if MiB were to kill him to which MiB responds, "then I'll kill them." But lastly Jacob gives MiB the bottle of wine and says its something to pass the time and then says "see you around." Under his breath MiB says, "sooner than you think." And after Jacob leaves he holds the bottle by the neck and smashes it against the log he's sitting on....

That was my main point. MiB has no knowledge of the metaphor so its not something he's trying to say or do to persuade someone against believing. But he basically confirms the metaphor to the audience...and if the man who is trying to protect the island and keep evil from spreading isn't the good guy then I wouldn't begin to be able to guess who is.

Got it, thanks. My mind must be slipping. I watched the whole scene on Tuesday night and forgot the major details of it by the next day.

[RSC]

OK, so I'm watching the midnight Lost re-runs on ABC right now, and its the episode where Kate, Sawyer, and Alex rescue Alex's boyfriend, Carl. If you remember, Carl's watching a mind-control propaganda movie, and one of the images that flashes says "God loves you as He loved Jacob." I don't know, but that may be a sign towards the whole Biblical idea.

[UnderDogX]

OK, so I'm watching the midnight Lost re-runs on ABC right now, and its the episode where Kate, Sawyer, and Alex rescue Alex's boyfriend, Carl. If you remember, Carl's watching a mind-control propaganda movie, and one of the images that flashes says "God loves you as He loved Jacob." I don't know, but that may be a sign towards the whole Biblical idea.

I think that had a lot to do with Ben....as we've seen he didn't have as much info from Jacob as he led us to believe. He seemed to be running his own agenda a little bit. Unfortunately Richard seems as though he believed Ben a little too...

[Pepperkorn]

I've been thinking Jin must be the candidate 1) because Sun isn't Kwon by birth (she's Paik or however you spell it) 2) It explains how Jin survived the freighter blast. yeah yeah and I knwo it really doesn't matter anyhow because Jack is the candidate we all KNOW because of various narrative devices employed by the writing team ( )

Underdog - yeah yeah -- So we know Jack is there to replace Jacob and there's really nothing else beyond that, if you want to look at it like that. There will be nothing more significant - no substantial denouement. All this built around has just been to make the replacement more compelling. Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I dont feel like I have to be if everyone is really watching, you know? My bad I guess

It's pretty cut and dry -- We have the Who pretty well settled, we have the What settled as well, we even have a good idea that the How is going to be a battle --- so the only unknown is WHY? It's just fun to ponder Will we ever see the catastrophic results if he doesn't? Will we see catastrophic results if he DOES? Especially since we have what, at present, seems like a concurrent timeline.

I'm not saying we're waiting for some mid-season, or mid-finale game changer - I'm talking epilogue. I think there's plenty of time for Charleton Heston to be riding his horse on the beach only to find the Statue of Liberty broken and submerged in the sand. Why waste time toying with stuff like that? because it's amusing

[UnderDogX]

Jack being there to replace Jacob is purely speculation on my part. I just think its going to pan out that way. In reality, and for a number of reasons, it could very well end up being Sawyer, Hurley, or Jin/Sun (which, I agree think its Jin as well) although I would say Sayid is out of the picture. My only real "it has to be" type of statement was that who is good and who is bad has been pointed out. But hey if you took my long few posts about why Jacob is good and how MiB is bad in terms of writing narrative as why Jack has to be the replacement then ok. But of course the writers could easily pull some sort of twist and turn everything on its head completely changing everything so far. In that respect, who is good and who is bad could still be left up in the air. I've always been a fan of a good story nothing more and nothing less.

As for the epilogue...I believe a lot of what happens after the dust settles will be left up to the audience. I believe I've heard a podcast with the writers saying they wanted the main characters to have their stories wrapped up but that could mean a bunch of things.

[Devil Dan 56]

I'm so glad Desmond is back. "I luv yih, Pennuh!"

And the scene where Desmond tries to save Charlie from the car is the best holy poo moment of the season so far.

[UnderDogX]

Faraday...er Daniel Widmore might've hit it head on with the "this isn't the life we are supposed to be living" thing...seems like a matter of time till the alt world is somehow overwritten or merged with the "real" world...very Matrixy stuff..

[devilsrule33]

I guess that epilogue theory can be thrown out.

[UnderDogX]

I guess that epilogue theory can be thrown out.

I would think so but then again, its not entirely unimaginable to have the "alt" reality become the epilogue of the "real" reality...depending on how its written but yeah I'd say probably not...

[Devil Dan 56]

Faraday...er Daniel Widmore might've hit it head on with the "this isn't the life we are supposed to be living" thing...seems like a matter of time till the alt world is somehow overwritten or merged with the "real" world...very Matrixy stuff..

Yep, and clearly Mrs. Widmore (and I'd assume Charles Widmore) know this.

Also, the sides people are taking on the Island seem to be having a direct affect on their alternate lives. For example, Sayid has gone to the 'dark side' and in the alternate reality, the woman he loves is married to his brother and he has been forced to kill again.

Meanwhile, Hurley is rich and the happiest he's ever been, and Jack has improved his relationship with his son.

Eh, just an idea.

[RSC]

So...at least Lost was pretty awesome tonight.

[Pepperkorn]

I missed it totally. The game was a big enough mind-boinker for me.

[Devil Dan 56]

So...at least Lost was pretty awesome tonight.

Yeah, I needed that after the game ended. SOMEONE didn't let us down...

[UnderDogX]

And I'm ready to admit that I was wrong about Christian....my original theory on that had the suit and tie version of Christian being an apparition much like Hurley seeing ghosts...maybe something influenced by Jacob, while the island garb Christian was smokey...turns out it was smokey all along...so that's interesting...

And now Jack's all alone so its time to see whats up...things are getting interesting in Alt world too!

[Pepperkorn]

Underdog -- we were only told what Not Locke knows. He can still be on island Christian while something else is off island Christian.

He's already made it clear he can't leave the island - and Christian did appear as a vision for Jack off island a la Charlie and Analucia were to Hurley. Unless the Oceanic 6 was all a dream and they never left the island ever you know - fact is if they provide an additional answer then it mattered if they don't then it doesn't.

As you get answers you see that really - who cares - sure whispers are dead people, yeah what the heck a big wave carrying the Black Rock smashed the statue -- blahblahblah -- it really doesn't matter is what all these "answers" seem to be saying. They never mattered it's just s story.

[StarDew]

Only 5 hours left. This season has been great and Frank still lives, eh PK.

[RSC]

HOLY SH!T.

[Devil Dan 56]

Well, we got a winner for most depressing episode of the season. We need more Desmond, damn it.