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#21 Hi, I'm VALUE!

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:13 PM

Manning is a playoff choke artist. 9-9 is average at best considering some of the teams he's played for havent been all that bad. He has 1 superbowl against big bad Rex Grossman WOW. In a big game in the playoffs I'd take Brady, Big Ben, Brees, or even Eli before Manning. He's the greatest regular season QB of all time and an absolute choke in the playoffs.

As for ESPN piling on Reggie Wayne all morning what could the guy really have done? Manning focused on him from the snap and it just made jumping the route ridiculously easy. I hate how everyone is so afraid to criticize his holy masterfulness peyton manning just because of what he does during the regular season.

And as for Tony Dungy and his predictions.... well... all I can do is sit back smile and laugh.

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+1 to the bolded...unless Wayne has radar in his helmet, he had NO CHANCE of doing much about that. No one had a shot at Porter that play.
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#22 devilsrule33

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:22 PM

Maybe saying he failed is a stretch. But he wasn't facing the impossible task you paint it to be. Consider:

- In Brady's first Super Bowl, he had 1:30 and no timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He did it.
- In Brady's second Super Bowl, he had 1:04 and all three timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He did it.
- In Brady's fourth Super Bowl, he had :29 and all three timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He lost ten yards.

Highly improbable? You better believe it. But it wasn't outside the realm of possibility.

And as for Reggie Wayne, did he look like Todd Pinkston on that last pass or what?


Brady had just finished off an incredible drive with under 3 minutes left. If Eli and Tyree don't connect for the craziest play in SB history, Brady is just given the title of greatest of all-time.

He had no chance of getting the Pats into field goal range after the sack. And remember that in the first two games, the Patriots were tied. Defenses are going to play it much safer without the lead. The defense let down Brady in that game. Firstly, Samuel should have picked off Eli on that drive, and secondly, Manning should never have escaped after being tied up on the Tyree catch.

As for this game, looks like I am in the minority here. I thought it was pretty boring. Both teams don't have great defenses and made sure to take away anything deep all game, which led to a lot of short passes underneath and long drives. If Manning scored on that final drive, we were set up for a classic finish.
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#23 njdevils783

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:26 PM

Maybe saying he failed is a stretch. But he wasn't facing the impossible task you paint it to be. Consider:

- In Brady's first Super Bowl, he had 1:30 and no timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He did it.
- In Brady's second Super Bowl, he had 1:04 and all three timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He did it.
- In Brady's fourth Super Bowl, he had :29 and all three timeouts to get the team within field goal range. He lost ten yards.

Highly improbable? You better believe it. But it wasn't outside the realm of possibility.

And as for Reggie Wayne, did he look like Todd Pinkston on that last pass or what?

Yea but lets not forget that the Giants D was pretty good.

Plus, Brady made his heroic game winning drive what 2 minutes prior.... Manning just made his at a better time lol

Edited by njdevils783, 08 February 2010 - 04:30 PM.

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#24 thelastonealive

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:36 PM

Also, the commercials ranged from decent to ultra-lame with a few standouts. My favs included:

1) The Google commerical with the "lifecycle of a relationship via Google searches" angle.


By far the best commercial of an otherwise weak crop. For me it went from "Wow, Google has to advertise? Everyone uses Google, why bother?" to "Wow, that was REALLY well done."

For the more traditional Super Bowl commercials, the Betty White/Abe Vigoda Snickers one wasn't bad, and the Letterman/Leno one was pretty good just because of the shock of seeing both of them in the same commercial, plus the timeliness of the whole Leno/Conan thing. Most of the other commercials were either really bad or just not memorable.
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#25 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 04:56 PM

I'm not really trying to hate on Brady here. More than anything, I'm more arguing against things I've heard from other people and on the radio than against anything anyone here has said. It's this notion that Peyton falls short of the pedestal Montana and Brady occupy because of this one game. I think they're all right around the same level. I think there are certain things that should take Brady and Montana down a peg and there are things that Peyton isn't given enough credit for.

Brady and Montana had better defenses than anything Peyton has had. Brady and Montana had Belichick and Walsh, football coaches commonly referred to as "geniuses." Peyton does everything pretty much on his own, reading defenses and calling plays at the line of scrimmage. Montana had a team around him so good that it could only exist in the pre-salary cap era, including the greatest wide receiver to ever play the game. Brady had illegally obtained footage of opposition practices. Peyton had ... um ... Marvin Harrison. The Niners won after Montana left (having a Hall Of Fame QB waiting in the wings sure helped) and the Pats won with what's-his-name at QB last year. Without Peyton, the Colts are a nothing team still playing in the RCA Dome.

Sorry to let this get sidetracked into a breakdown of Brady's Super Bowls ... that wasn't my intention. Just trying to say that this one game shouldn't take any shine off of Peyton's career thus far, and shouldn't keep people from thinking he belongs in the same company as Brady and Montana.
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#26 njdevils783

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 05:12 PM

I'm not really trying to hate on Brady here. More than anything, I'm more arguing against things I've heard from other people and on the radio than against anything anyone here has said. It's this notion that Peyton falls short of the pedestal Montana and Brady occupy because of this one game. I think they're all right around the same level. I think there are certain things that should take Brady and Montana down a peg and there are things that Peyton isn't given enough credit for.

Brady and Montana had better defenses than anything Peyton has had. Brady and Montana had Belichick and Walsh, football coaches commonly referred to as "geniuses." Peyton does everything pretty much on his own, reading defenses and calling plays at the line of scrimmage. Montana had a team around him so good that it could only exist in the pre-salary cap era, including the greatest wide receiver to ever play the game. Brady had illegally obtained footage of opposition practices. Peyton had ... um ... Marvin Harrison. The Niners won after Montana left (having a Hall Of Fame QB waiting in the wings sure helped) and the Pats won with what's-his-name at QB last year. Without Peyton, the Colts are a nothing team still playing in the RCA Dome.

Sorry to let this get sidetracked into a breakdown of Brady's Super Bowls ... that wasn't my intention. Just trying to say that this one game shouldn't take any shine off of Peyton's career thus far, and shouldn't keep people from thinking he belongs in the same company as Brady and Montana.


See I dont really see it as people having a problem putting him in the brady/montana group because his regular season stats are undeniably great. I think allot of people just feel that yesterday's 4th quarter keeps him from being the God that so many want to claim him to be. He's a great QB in or near the group of the all time greats, but he clearly isn't above them.
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#27 Derek21

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 06:36 PM

Manning is a playoff choke artist. 9-9 is average at best considering some of the teams he's played for havent been all that bad. He has 1 superbowl against big bad Rex Grossman WOW. In a big game in the playoffs I'd take Brady, Big Ben, Brees, or even Eli before Manning. He's the greatest regular season QB of all time and an absolute choke in the playoffs.

As for ESPN piling on Reggie Wayne all morning what could the guy really have done? Manning focused on him from the snap and it just made jumping the route ridiculously easy. I hate how everyone is so afraid to criticize his holy masterfulness peyton manning just because of what he does during the regular season.

And as for Tony Dungy and his predictions.... well... all I can do is sit back smile and laugh.

Saints for one night haha I loved ya.



Agreed. It was a poor choice and an easy pick six. Interesting that Porter noted that he saw it coming and jumped the route. Wayne had a miserable game but come on ESPN. They are so pathetic. Think Montana doesn't tie that up? Steve Young? Peyton had a Tinman moment. And what about the odd playcalls down 14? Granted. They needed a miracle. But they had all three timeouts and took way too much time, looking completely disorganized. Not what you expect from the so-called "all-time greatest." Peyton's up there but he really took a hit last night. Especially up 10 and then getting outscored 31-7. You couldn't get those odds on Mars. Brees outplayed him and really was tremendous the whole final three quarters. I was very happy for him, Shockey and Payton, whose on-side was ballsy. Great call. Congrats to the city of New Orleans and Louisiana!
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#28 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 10:11 PM

Agreed. It was a poor choice and an easy pick six. Interesting that Porter noted that he saw it coming and jumped the route. Wayne had a miserable game but come on ESPN. They are so pathetic. Think Montana doesn't tie that up? Steve Young? Peyton had a Tinman moment.


Super Bowl XLIV

Colts trailing the Saints 24-17 early in the fourth quarter. Then this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdedow0mqls


Super Bowl XXIII

49ers trailing the Bengals 13-6 early in the fourth quarter. Then this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJFOBI1cZaM


Yep. Put Montana in that situation and he'd NEVER make the same mistake. :puke:
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#29 Derek21

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 11:50 PM

Not for nothing but comparing the two is ridiculous. One won 4 Super Bowls. That also was a little tougher int than the one last night.
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#30 NJDevs4978

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:08 AM

Yeah you can't bring up an almost INT from Montana when the game was still in the third quarter and Montana had 11 TD's to 0 INT's in Super Bowls. If Billups gets that one it's 11-1, what's the difference really? The Niners probably still win that game or at least get to OT, it was obvious from that last drive the Bengals' prevent wasn't going to stop them, but there's no way to really tell how the game would have turned out if the INT's made.

I do think it's safe to say Montana, Brady, etc would never have wasted a timeout like Peyton did on that last drive and that's where the big game comparisons of Peyton are fair. To me that was a hundred times worse than the INT, that was a mental mistake that could have been costly if the Colts had actually you know, scored on that drive.

Edited by Hasan4978, 09 February 2010 - 12:11 AM.

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#31 CRASHER

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 08:19 AM

Again, it's the difference in the LEGEND qb's of the game and Manning...
Montana has his signature drives (That John Taylor catch against the Bengals being the main one)

Elway's are notorious enough (though not in a Super Bowl, he did get them to two Super Bowls they had no business being in before he won two)

Even Brett Fraud in his prime had his defining moments before he stayed in the game too long....

Staubach had 'em
Bradshaw had them (and I'm still annoyed at them :rant: )

Where's Manning's???
Oh wait... ELI has one :blahblah:

Peyton's signature drive is right now Porter running back a pick-6

(this is also why I don't put Aikman on this list... he NEVER had THAT DRIVE, that one sequence you go back and go... damn he pulled it out and got it done)

My favorite quote:
"Losers whine about their best.... winners go out and fvck the prom queen"

I wonder which Prom Drew Brees is picking from this week :lol:
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#32 DaneykoIsGod

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:28 AM

Not for nothing but comparing the two is ridiculous. One won 4 Super Bowls. That also was a little tougher int than the one last night.


Why is it ridiculous? Put in the same situation, down by about a touchdown early in the fourth quarter of the Super Bowl, both quarterbacks put the ball in the hands of a defender.

Not taking anything away from Montana here. Just trying to seperate the actual man from the mythological god he's turned into.

And Hasan, that 11 TDs, 0 INTs is including everything that Joe did after the pick-that-should-have-been, including that blowout against the Broncos where he threw 5 of those 11 TDs. That isn't fair considering that it's impossible to include all Manning will do from here on out. Here are Manning's career Super Bowl numbers compared to what Joe Montana's would have been immediately following that interception, had Billups held on:

Totals:
Manning (2 games) - 56-for-83, 580 yards, 2 TDs, 2 INTs
Montana (3 games) - 53-for-82, 758 yards, 4 TDs, 1 INT

Averages (all numbers rounded):
Manning - 28-for-42, 290 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Montana - 18-for-27, 253 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT

I know this is all hypothetical :blahblah: , but it really is amazing what a difference one play makes. We all know how the rest of Montana's career played out and the guy just kept getting better. It'll be interesting to see what Manning does from here.
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#33 MantaRay

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 09:53 AM

I think everyone is forgetting that this IS a team game. Montana gets all the glory, but he played with a great defense the years he won, Fred Dean, Ronnie Lott, Matt Millen, etc.
Brady had it thoughout his career and the only reason the Packers won their Superbowls it was because of Reggie White.

Colts D just couldn't match up well with the Saints O. End of story.
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#34 UnderDogX

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 10:41 AM

I think everyone is forgetting that this IS a team game. Montana gets all the glory, but he played with a great defense the years he won, Fred Dean, Ronnie Lott, Matt Millen, etc.
Brady had it thoughout his career and the only reason the Packers won their Superbowls it was because of Reggie White.

Colts D just couldn't match up well with the Saints O. End of story.


+1

Too much emphasis is being put on what the QB's do or don't do. Not a single QB has won the game by himself. They don't play on D, they don't catch the ball and they sure don't protect themselves. But don't get me wrong there are definitely times that a QB can be a part of, and even lead, the team to pull out the one that they should've lost or help orchestrate THAT drive...

Play calling (the 3 runs and punt before the first half comes to mind as well as the run with 1 timeout and the clock winding down in the fourth is another) as well as a bad defensive matchup attributed to the Colts losing just as much as that pick 6 did...
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#35 njdevils783

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:03 PM

...

Edited by njdevils783, 09 February 2010 - 02:10 PM.

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#36 njdevils783

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 02:10 PM

Colts had over 300 yards in the air its not like the Saints D was lights out either. Manning doesnt throw the biggest pick of his career and there threatening to tie. I mean come on there on the Saints what 30 yard line, its not like he was backed up on his own 10 looking to go down field and just threw it up. The "greatest qb ever" giftwrapped an essentially game winning INT.

Furthermore coaching staffs can only do so much and the team was in the position to tie it up until that blunder. Eventually you gotta go out there lean on your big guns and say win this one for us. A great QB can HELP carry his team through those moments. The lesser ones.. well... watch a replay of the superbowl

But either way I'm pretty biased lol I just hate the guy

Edited by njdevils783, 09 February 2010 - 02:18 PM.

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#37 LOTCB

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:07 PM

Can anyone please blame Reggie Wayne for his route...anyone? Bueller?
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#38 CRASHER

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 06:50 PM

Can anyone please blame Reggie Wayne for his route...anyone? Bueller?


:lol:

you do watch too much ESPN sir :P

Why is it the WORLD wanted to proclaim him the BEST OF ALL TIME before the game, and now that he got exposed for it... it's everyone else's fault??

(why do my Manning and mb30 comments always sound the same?? it's why I compare the Devils and Colts in a lot of ways, people get mad at me for it... but it's damn true)

the best of all time doesn't telegraph the route.... ask the DB who made the play... he saw the route from the formation, read it and JUMPED it..... remember how Peyton gets all the praise because "his football mind is so great he goes to the line with 4 suggestions from the OC and picks the right one at the line"... how come THAT gets forgotten and the "OC and Caldwell got too conservative"???

Isn't Peyton the SAME GUY who said on 4th and short vs the Colts... GO AWAY KICKER we're going for it??

So... all the glory... none of the blame... it must be nice B )
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#39 LOTCB

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 08:17 PM

:lol:

you do watch too much ESPN sir :P

Why is it the WORLD wanted to proclaim him the BEST OF ALL TIME before the game, and now that he got exposed for it... it's everyone else's fault??

(why do my Manning and mb30 comments always sound the same?? it's why I compare the Devils and Colts in a lot of ways, people get mad at me for it... but it's damn true)

the best of all time doesn't telegraph the route.... ask the DB who made the play... he saw the route from the formation, read it and JUMPED it..... remember how Peyton gets all the praise because "his football mind is so great he goes to the line with 4 suggestions from the OC and picks the right one at the line"... how come THAT gets forgotten and the "OC and Caldwell got too conservative"???

Isn't Peyton the SAME GUY who said on 4th and short vs the Colts... GO AWAY KICKER we're going for it??

So... all the glory... none of the blame... it must be nice B )



Watch too much E$PN? Heck no!

CMON...look at the way Wayne ran that route...pathetic....and ok Peyton's throw was not good and yes, is part to blame...I have a better question for the Colts fan: Addai is ripping off yards....how come all of the sudden they stopped going to him? THAT was a fail.

The Colts are a 7 win team without Manning. I don't really like him, but I do respect what he does mean to that team.

Edited by LOTCB, 09 February 2010 - 08:18 PM.

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#40 Derek21

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 08:34 PM

Come on dude. That was an awful read. Blaming Wayne is the "in thing" to do. Peyton never should've thrown it. He had the team in position to tie but made a poor choice. Can he ever receive criticism? Even worse, the whole drive down 14 was awful. So disorganized. Not what you'd come to expect from one of the greats.
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