1631 replies to this topic

[nmigliore]

Collins said he'd do just that if Reyes got a hit. It's all to protect his chances at the batting title. Braun needs to go 3-for-3 or 3-for-4 to win the title now, I think.

But yes, it is very lame given the circumstances that this COULD be Reyes' final game as a Met.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 12:30 PM.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I hate that crap. I couldn't care less about Reyes winning the title anyway...I know he qualifies, but something about missing 36 games takes a little away from it (at least for me).

Probably his last game as a Met, as it should be. The Wilpons simply can't take a chance on signing him to big dollars with his penchant for missing games (191 of them over the last three seasons). I know he did some good things here, but I can't honestly say I'll miss him.

[nmigliore]

I hate that crap. I couldn't care less about Reyes winning the title anyway...I know he qualifies, but something about missing 36 games takes a little away from it (at least for me).

Probably his last game as a Met, as it should be. The Wilpons simply can't take a chance on signing him to big dollars with his penchant for missing games (191 of them over the last three seasons). I know he did some good things here, but I can't honestly say I'll miss him.

The hilarious part of this post is that it is like the complete opposite of how everyone feels right now. Mets fans are pissed that their last memory of Reyes could be a bunt single in the 1st inning and removed for Justin Turner opposed to TC trying to be "cheap" with the battling title race.

[Onddeck]

This is bs. Reyes and everyone in charge of pulling him out of the game to preserve the title is a punk. Hey Reyes, why don't you go get hurt or underachieve for your team again... but as long as you get the individual title, you're fine.

I just heard Ryan Braun could take the title if he hits 3-4 or better today... come on budddy

[nmigliore]

This is bs. Reyes and everyone in charge of pulling him out of the game to preserve the title is a punk. Hey Reyes, why don't you go get hurt or underachieve for your team again... but as long as you get the individual title, you're fine.

I just heard Ryan Braun could take the title if he hits 3-4 or better today... come on budddy

Anyway, you know what's funny? Where is the outrage about Braun sitting last night with the lead and then coming in after Reyes got some hits? Oh, what about the Yankees taking Bernie Williams out after his 2-for-2 on the final day in 1998 when he was in the thick of the batting title race with Mo Vaughn?

If people are going to hammer the Mets/Collins/Reyes for this fiasco, it should be because it was potentially his last Mets' AB, not because it "taints" the batting title race. That's silliness.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 01:20 PM.

[Onddeck]

Anyway, you know what's funny? Where is the outrage about Braun sitting last night with the lead and then coming in after Reyes got some hits? Oh, what about the Yankees taking Bernie Williams out after his 2-for-2 on the final day in 1998 when he was in the thick of the batting title race with Mo Vaughn?

!
well, sir, the reason we aren't talking about Bernie right now is because that was... 13 YEARS AGO! its still suspect, but whatever. just because this thing happens a couple times every 13 years doesnt mean he's gonna slide by

And o well, Braun sitting last night isn't the same as pulling him out of the game right after the guy gets a bunt

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The hilarious part of this post is that it is like the complete opposite of how everyone feels right now. Mets fans are pissed that their last memory of Reyes could be a bunt single in the 1st inning and removed for Justin Turner opposed to TC trying to be "cheap" with the battling title race.

When I said "I hate that crap", I meant I hate when managers take players out of the lineup to protect their averages in a batting race. I think Reyes should've played the whole game, for the reason you imply...that Met fans should get to see him play a full game in what is very likely to be his last game as a Met. Maybe it's the fact that the Mets are coming off another sub-par season (even though it was expected), maybe it's that Reyes got hurt yet again and missed those 36 games, but his batting title chase had no sizzle to it for me...admittedly ironic, in that there wasn't much worth talking about lately.

I know a lot of Met fans will miss him, but I'm not one of them. I haven't forgotten the negatives that come with Reyes: the brainfarts, the occasional lack of hustle, the games missed due to injury, the September disappearing acts. Could he be an incredibly electrifying and exciting player? Yes, he could. But I think a lot of Met fans are going to remember the good and only the good. I'll remember both. Which is why I can't say I'm going to miss him a whole lot.

Anyway, you know what's funny? Where is the outrage about Braun sitting last night with the lead and then coming in after Reyes got some hits? Oh, what about the Yankees taking Bernie Williams out after his 2-for-2 on the final day in 1998 when he was in the thick of the batting title race with Mo Vaughn?

Admittedly, I hate ALL of that crap. Always did, no matter who's involved. Let it come down to a true last AB.

[nmigliore]

The good outweighs the negatives by a significant margin for me. But we've been down this road thousands of times and I'm tired of rehashing the same stuff.....

We'll see what happens in the offseason. Should be fun.

[Onddeck]

"If I'm going to be a .400 hitter, I'm going to be a .400 hitter all the way,"- Ted Williams

[nmigliore]

"If I'm going to be a .400 hitter, I'm going to be a .400 hitter all the way,"- Ted Williams

I'm sure you were alive to witness it too, right?

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 02:55 PM.

[Onddeck]

I'm sure you were alive to witness it too, right?

Strong argument, kid.

Keep in mind that this scrub Reyes has played what, half the season? Lol

[nmigliore]

God it's so funny when people who know zilch about baseball troll threads.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 03:01 PM.

[NJDevs4978]

And o well, Braun sitting last night isn't the same as pulling him out of the game right after the guy gets a bunt

Uh yeah it is, it's the same thing...they're both sitting out to try to sit on a lead in the BA race. To me it wouldn't be tainted for Reyes though, if he has enough AB's to qualify then he deserves it. The only thing that would taint it a little is if Braun goes 2-4 tonight and that stupid hit off Reyes' foot last night winds up being what decides it.

Be that as it may, I can understand why the Mets did it - it's just as important to them as a franchise to have a batting crown winner (since they've never had one in 50 years) as it is to Reyes (who'll likely never even sniff another batting crown). Yeah you'd like the macho finish it off atitude of going up there each AB that a Williams had way back when but either way I'll be rooting for Reyes to get it tonight. Even if he might not be back with the Mets.

That said, the Mets kinda screwed up with how he left the game...I understand they're paranoid about batting around in the inning and not wanting to pinch hit for him should that happen but you would rather have had him exit as a defensive replacement when it's expected than just hurry him out of the game as if he's Bartman needing security to exit Wrigley.

[Onddeck]

God it's so funny when people who know zilch about baseball troll threads.

you are yet to make any legit argument. going for the easy way out, just trying to say i dont know anything. solid stuff.

you acted like it even mattered if I was alive when Ted Williams played.

and what, by providing solid arguments im a troll? you're a joke

[nmigliore]

That said, the Mets kinda screwed up with how he left the game...I understand they're paranoid about batting around in the inning and not wanting to pinch hit for him should that happen but you would rather have had him exit as a defensive replacement when it's expected than just hurry him out of the game as if he's Bartman needing security to exit Wrigley.

Yeah, that's the only thing I was genuinely disappointed about. Just didn't seem like a proper "send-off" or whatnot.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 03:53 PM.

[thefiestygoat]

Strong argument, kid.

Keep in mind that this scrub Reyes has played what, half the season? Lol

Coming into today for Reyes: 125 games .336/.383/.493/.875 .157 ISO .385 wOBA 147 wRC+ 6.2 WAR (just .1 behind Tulowitzki for 2nd best in MLB for SS)....how is he a scrub? He's had a helluva year, gotta give him credit.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Coming into today for Reyes: 125 games .336/.383/.493/.875 .157 ISO .385 wOBA 147 wRC+ 6.2 WAR (just .1 behind Tulowitzki for 2nd best in MLB for SS)....how is he a scrub? He's had a helluva year, gotta give him credit.

No one can rightly call him a scrub. That's definitely over-the-top by a wide margin.

[nmigliore]

Heh. Ondeck's "solid arguments" sure look fantastic right now.

Some people just aren't worth the time and effort.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 04:31 PM.

[nmigliore]

Great article on this final day, batting title fiasco happening in the past....

Alas, it's happened before ...

1976 NL: Ken Griffey Sr. Griffey entered the final day hitting .338. Bill Madlock was hitting .333. But Madlock went 4-for-4 for the Cubs to raise his average to .339. Once word reached Cincinnati, Griffey entered in the seventh inning, but went 0-for-2.

1983 NL: Bill Madlock. Now with the Pirates, Madlock was hitting .323 entering the final game. He sat. Lonnie Smith went 2-for-5 to finish at .321. Jose Cruz Sr. went 0-for-4 to fall from .320 to .318. The title was Madlock's. Actually, we could do a whole blog on Madlock. He apparently tore a calf muscle on Sept. 5 and only had 19 plate appearances the rest of the season. He had played the five previous games, however -- although he had left the final four before the fifth inning. In fact, in all of his batting title seasons, Madlock missed time in September with injuries. How many of these were legit remains open to debate. In 1983, it's odd that he kept attempting to play only to leave games early. Bill James once wrote, "I never saw any other player who was as focused on batting championships as Bill Madlock ... if he was in the hunt for the title the guys in the press box used to run a poll to see who could pick the days that Madlock's hamstring would keep him out of the lineup."

1982 AL: Willie Wilson. Hitting .332, Wilson sat out game No. 162. Robin Yount was hitting .328 and went for 4-for-5 with two home runs (in a game the Brewers needed to win capture the AL East), but fell short at .331.

2003 AL: Bill Mueller. Entering the last day, Mueller was at .327, Derek Jeter was at .326, and Mueller's Boston teammate Manny Ramirez was at .325. Mueller and Ramirez didn't start for Boston. Jeter went 0-for-3 for the Yankees to drop to .324. Mueller pinch-hit in the eighth inning -- but only after Jeter was already 0-for-3. Mueller finished at .326 to win the title.

1991 NL: Terry Pendleton. Hitting .319, Pendleton didn't play the final game. Hal Morris went 3-for-4 for the Reds to raise his average from .314 to .318. Tony Gwynn finished third at .317, but he was injured and didn't play the final three weeks of the season.

1986 NL: Tim Raines. Raines had a strained chest muscle that had forced him to miss three games the final week, but he had played all 14 innings in the game before the season finale. Manager Bob Rodgers informed Raines that Steve Sax would have to go 4-for-4 to catch Raines if he sat. Raines said he hadn't swung the bat well the night before. He sat. "I think it would be unfair for anyone to criticize him for deciding to sit it out, because he's been such a good team player all year," Rodgers said. Sax got just one hit and Raines won the crown.

Those are just a few examples I came up with on short notice. The history of the sport is littered with controversial batting titles, most notoriously the 1910 race between Nap Lajoie and Ty Cobb (Lajoie recorded seven bunt hits in a doubleheader against the Browns on the final day of the season) and the 1976 AL race, when Hal McRae was battling Royals teammate George Brett (and Minnesota's Rod Carew). In the bottom of the ninth, Brett trailed McRae. He needed a hit (McRae was on deck). He blooped a ball that Twins left fielder Steve Brye misjudged. The ball bounced over his head and Brett circled the bases for an inside-the-park home run. When McRae then grounded out (leaving Brett at .333, McRae at .332), he made two obscene gestures to the Minnesota bench, had to be restrained, and later alleged racism was involved (Brye was white, McRae black). (For more on the 1976 controversy, here's a good take.)

http://espn.go.com/b...o-protect-title

You can say it's not really right, but it's happened before, plenty of times. To single out Reyes is moronic and troll-ish, which has been my point the whole time.

Edited by nmigliore, 28 September 2011 - 04:39 PM.

[Onddeck]

Ok yea I shouldn't have called him a scrub. But yo it doesnt matter, I didn't single him out. Ill say it was shady back then and it is now.. I would no at all say that what they did today was completely the right way to get the title

Edited by Onddeck, 28 September 2011 - 05:29 PM.