199 replies to this topic

[DH26]

So Nolan Ryan's group beat out Cuban's to buy Texas. So at least somebody owns them now pending MLB's approval. Would have loved to see Cubes in baseball but whatever. He can try to buy somebody else after failing with the Cubs and Rangers.

http://sportsillustr....html?eref=sihp

They also still have to pay A-Rod 24.9 million more 6 years after the Yankees got him

[grcenter47]

I am shocked that Boston signed Delgado

[Martyisth3b3st]

I am shocked that Boston signed Delgado

What's so shocking? They need a first baseman. He is a first baseman.

[nmigliore]

Delgado is probably going to be brutal defensively at 1B for them. I guess hes worth a shot though, why not?

Edited by nmigliore, 08 August 2010 - 09:44 AM.

[devilsrule33]

I don't want to turn this thread into my personal Blue Jays thread but I think it is worth noting that Blue Jays rookie catcher JP Arencibia had the greatest MLB debut of all-time going 4-5 with two home runs and 11 total bases. He finished a triple short of the cycle and went deep in his first ever at bat on his first ever pitch.

[grcenter47]

What's so shocking? They need a first baseman. He is a first baseman.

i was expecting they would just leave lowell for the rest of the season at first base

I don't want to turn this thread into my personal Blue Jays thread but I think it is worth noting that Blue Jays rookie catcher JP Arencibia had the greatest MLB debut of all-time going 4-5 with two home runs and 11 total bases. He finished a triple short of the cycle and went deep in his first ever at bat on his first ever pitch.

he did great. the blue jays can definitely hit the long ball this year

[devilsrule33]

Brandon Morrow has one of the great pitching games I have ever seen and has to be one of the best ever. He was one out away from a no-hitter when Evan Longoria chops a ball between 1st and second. Aaron Hill made an outstanding effort to get a glove on it, but couldn’t keep it in his glove when he hit the ground. I don’t think he had any chance getting Longoria anway.

He finished with a one-hitter and 17Ks absolutely baffling maybe the toughest lineup in all of baseball. He had a 100 game scorer which ties RJ and Schilling as the best games in the last 12 years since Kerry Wood’s 20 K, 1 hit, 0 walk game in 1998.

Now a question for everyone else. There have been some fantastic pitching seasons so far in the NL this year. If the season ended today, who do you guys like as the Cy Young winner?

Right now I think it would come down Johnson, Wainwright, and Halladay, but knowing how the voters mind work, Jimenez is very much in the discussion with his 17-2 win-loss record. Breaking them down with stats that voters look at…

Jimenez:

IP: 148.1
W-L: 17-2
ERA: 2.62
WHIP: 1.11
SO/BB: 135/60
CG: 3

Johnson:

IP: 155
W-L: 10/4
ERA: 1.97
WHIP: 1.01
SO/BB: 156/36
CG: 1

Halladay:

IP: 185
W-L: 14-8
ERA: 2.34
WHIP: 1.03
SO/BB: 168/22
CG: 8

Wainwright:
IP: 169.1
W-L: 16-6
ERA: 2.07
WHIP: 1.00
SO/BB: 154/42
CG: 5

I have no idea how to handicap this. Johnson, Halladay and Wainwright have certainly got the short end of the stick when it comes to wins and losses. Doc had a 9 inning, 5 hit, 0 run game go as a no decision. He had an 8 inning, 1 run game go as a loss against Johnson and the Marlins.

Johnson, inexplicably only has 10 wins despite a 1.97 ERA and with the distinction of only giving up more than 3 runs twice all year. He has certainly been screwed all year. Wainwright has gotten no help all year getting tagged for 2 losses no pitcher should ever get tagged for and hasn’t been helped out once by the Cardinals in any of his average games. He easily could be 20-2.

Jimenez has one lucky win-loss record at 17-2, despite the highest ERA of the 4 pitchers.

With all that being said, Halladay has definitely deserved about 4 of those losses as he has gotten beat up quite a few times this year giving up at least 5 earned runs, 5 times, but he does lead the NL in IP, SO, CG, and shutouts.

Wild cards are Halladay’s perfect game and Jimenez’s no-hitter.

I think Jimenez would get the writers’ vote, but who should actually get it…I honestly have no clue. Halladay has had the most bad games, although a bunch were against the AL, but teams have hurt him a lot more than Johnson and Wainwright, who have had almost no bad games between them.

Maybe someone with a more sabermetric understanding of the game could help me decide between those 3.

Who do you all have?

[grcenter47]

i cant believe that the tampa rays have been no hit 3 times this year

[nmigliore]

For Cy Youngs I'd go Josh Johnson and Cliff Lee.

Devilsrule - from a sabermetric standpoint, for the NL, it would be Johnson, Halladay, and Jimenez - in that order, in terms of WAR.

It is worth mentioning though that Francisco Liriano leads all of baseball with a 2.19 FIP, so he'd absolutely have to be in the discussion too if sabermetrics were more thought of instead of W-L records/ERA.

Edited by nmigliore, 08 August 2010 - 05:08 PM.

[grcenter47]

i am going to say ubaldo jimenez and either cliff lee or maybe cc sabathia

[devilsrule33]

For Cy Youngs I'd go Josh Johnson and Cliff Lee.

Devilsrule - from a sabermetric standpoint, for the NL, it would be Johnson, Halladay, and Jimenez - in that order, in terms of WAR.

It is worth mentioning though that Francisco Liriano leads all of baseball with a 2.19 FIP, so he'd absolutely have to be in the discussion too if sabermetrics were more thought of instead of W-L records/ERA.

I was leaning towards Johnson too. He's been simply sensational. His record unfortunately will really hurt him, which is so frustrating.

[DH26]

i am going to say ubaldo jimenez and either cliff lee or maybe cc sabathia

won't be Lee. Everybody's going to see how he doesn't have enough wins even if that doesn't determine how good he's actually been. He gets penalized for the M's bad offense

[thefiestygoat]

For Cy Youngs I'd go Josh Johnson and Cliff Lee.

Devilsrule - from a sabermetric standpoint, for the NL, it would be Johnson, Halladay, and Jimenez - in that order, in terms of WAR.

It is worth mentioning though that Francisco Liriano leads all of baseball with a 2.19 FIP, so he'd absolutely have to be in the discussion too if sabermetrics were more thought of instead of W-L records/ERA.

I normally just follow the Yankees but thought it be cool to go over to fangraphs and check it all out, and I gotta agree with what you said...

The NL Cy Young is a fairly close call in-between Johnson and Halladay. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.

Josh Johnson...
5.6 WAR
9.06 K/9
2.09 BB/9
4.33 K/BB
.29 HR/9
.217 AVG
1.01 WHIP
81.2% LOB%
1.97 ERA
2.28 FIP

Roy Halladay...
5.5 WAR
7.99 K/9
1.06 BB/9
7.52 K/BB
.71 HR/9
.242 AVG
1.02 WHIP
82.3% LOB%
2.17 ERA
2.79 FIP

For AL Cy Young I go with Lee and I think he will end up on top. Though you have to give credit to Liriano for quite a bounce back year.

Cliff Lee...
5.6 WAR
7.32 K/9
.52 BB/9
14 K/BB
.52 HR/9
.233 AVG
.92 WHIP
73.6% LOB%
2.44 ERA
2.43 FIP

Francisco Liriano...
5.5 WAR
9.98 K/9
2.82 BB/9
3.55 K/BB
.13 HR/9
.248 AVG
1.24 WHIP
72.4% LOB%
3.33 ERA
2.14 FIP

[DH26]

here's the ESPN Cy Young predictor from a formula made by Neyer and Bill James. idk how Lee isn't even there so take it for what it's worth. Sabathia and Wainwright as winners

http://espn.go.com/m...eatures/cyyoung

[nmigliore]

That .52 BB/9 from Lee is just ridiculous.

[thefiestygoat]

That .52 BB/9 from Lee is just ridiculous.

I knew he was having a great year but the numbers blew me away when I saw them, especially the...

.52 BB/9
14 K/BB
.52 HR/9
.233 AVG
.92 WHIP

That is just insane.

[devilsrule33]

That .52 BB/9 from Lee is just ridiculous.

It really is. The thing is you think he'd be hurt by it in some respects like Halladay usually is by throwing everything around the strike zone, but he isn't at all.

His 14:1 SO/BB is stupid.

here's the ESPN Cy Young predictor from a formula made by Neyer and Bill James. idk how Lee isn't even there so take it for what it's worth. Sabathia and Wainwright as winners

http://espn.go.com/m...eatures/cyyoung

This makes sense based on (wins x 6) - (losses x 2) so a guy like Jimenez with a gigantic win-loss differential and lots of wins will be high up and same with Wainwright. This explains why Johnson is so low and Cliff Lee is not even on it.

This is actually a pretty good predictor of how the writers will vote.

Edited by devilsrule33, 08 August 2010 - 09:18 PM.

[grcenter47]

here's the ESPN Cy Young predictor from a formula made by Neyer and Bill James. idk how Lee isn't even there so take it for what it's worth. Sabathia and Wainwright as winners

http://espn.go.com/m...eatures/cyyoung

Bill James is a great baseball analyst. I recommend his book for any serious baseball fans

[nmigliore]

I just watched the highlight reel of Morrow's game... wow. I know its highlights, but his stuff looked filthy, especially that tight, hard upper-80 mph slider. I think he'll always have control issues, but if he can keep the strikeout rate up and the homeruns down, he should be fine. Brandon League is a decent reliever and all, but I extremely doubt the Jays will ever regret making that swap.

Edited by nmigliore, 08 August 2010 - 11:05 PM.

[DH26]

I just watched the highlight reel of Morrow's game... wow. I know its highlights, but his stuff looked filthy, especially that tight, hard upper-80 mph slider. I think he'll always have control issues, but if he can keep the strikeout rate up and the homeruns down, he should be fine. Brandon League is a decent reliever and all, but I extremely doubt the Jays will ever regret making that swap.

everyone knew he always had ridiculous stuff, it was just a matter of putting it together. But looking back, Seattle really made some boneheaded moves that seemed alright at the time. Hindsight is 20-20 though. Everyone would've made the Cliff Lee deal (especially when they gave up nothing for him) but the others aren't looking so hot right now

Next year they should probably invest in some offense b/c their lineup is all time awful though they don't get no hit every night like the rays

Edited by DH26, 09 August 2010 - 12:11 AM.