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#1 GetReal

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:49 AM

The Nets get more press nationally and locally just signing players than the Devils did winning the Stanley Cup.

Must be the fan attention and interest difference between the NBA and the NHL.
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#2 MantaRay

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:53 AM

Hockey is too demanding and complex for most "journalists" hence they don't understand it and can't relate.

They also think that people want more basketball coverage, but simply looking at attendance between the Nets & Devils will tell you otherwise.
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#3 GetReal

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 11:46 AM

One can't compare NJ Basketball and NJ Hockey game attendance to anything nationally. As for attendance records for the Nets vs the Devils the Nets are building a contender and spending money which is an interest to team, sport and NBA fans. NJ Attendance records for both teams is weak do to limited market and costs for going to a game in NJ.

Basketball has more fans and therefore more people want more coverage.

Hockey, the NHL, hasn't created a market for fans. As for complex.. how difficult is it for a hockey journalist to write stories about the Stanley Cup and the team that won it. Not difficult at all.

It's the lack of hockey or team readers that doesn't get the stories printed in the press. The NHL and it's owners don't understand that. Hockey is dying a slow death it's not growing it's fan base. Expansion was wrong, quality scoring has gone down, defensive hockey is boring to more hockey fans except when the Cup is on the line.
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#4 Triumph

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 11:58 AM

Of course, GR created this post so he could make general statements.

To say hockey isn't growing its fan base: nonsense. This year's playoffs featured 3 recent expansion teams in the Stanley Cup Semi-Finals. To say there aren't people in those cities that didn't pick up at least a casual interest in hockey from that.. it's just not true. Now with Kariya's defection, maybe Anaheim will lose some of that, but who knows. Of course, there wasn't much NATIONAL media coverage for the 2003 playoffs, but who cares about that? That just creates the perception. The reality, however, is that winning expansion teams is good for hockey. If it wasn't, why bother expanding at all? Does the NHL really need more fans in Boston or Toronto? With the paucity of TV dollars, all it really needs is 17,000 upper middle class to wealthy hockey fans in each of its NHL cities.

There will always be defensive hockey. The 80s are over. International play shows that a lot of the ideas for increasing scoring are just not good ideas.. and again, all 4 teams in this year's Cup Finals could skate, which is a good sign. The days of trying to overpower people with size are over.

I don't know how the Nets are going to make enough cash to pay for Jason Kidd. No idea. They get a lot more from TV and licensing I suppose, but NJ just doesn't bring in the cash.. why did they keep Kidd? Because they knew losing him would lose half their fan base that they had just built up.
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#5 GetReal

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 12:42 PM

Triumph, are you still on your high horse?

TV rating in gerenal were off for NHL hockey and continue to be off.

As for the Nets keeping Kidd, that move was a no brainer, without Kidd the Nets don't draaw on Yankee Net and therefore no money from advertisers, simple don't you think Triumph.

Hockey fan base isn't growing Triumph, while they may grow in the expansion cities they lose in the core cities.

If defensive hockey is the answer, your answer Triumph, why does the NHL continue to talk about taking actions that will bring about more scoring? Answer, without more scoring hockey will become boring, fighting is off so that's no longer an interest to the fan. WOW defensive hockey, played between the blue line will be the end of the NHL. Trust me Triumph on this one. NHL TV contracts will go away, fans won't go the the games, prices will have to increase, more fan loss, corporate tickets sale will go away, look at the Devils the Corporations can't give away the seats they sign up for to customers, so their employees use them, that a benefit not planned for and when they try to find an employee that will go to the game they have trouble so empty seats in the lower section on a continuing bases even during playoffs, these are already paid for seats Triumph.

So you continue to champion defensive hockey and in time you won't have hockey to watch. Maybe before that the lockout, if it happens, will kill the game. Just not enough interest Triumph, no excitement, game difficult for some to understand. Lack of Scoring in soccer keeps the TV rating low and NHL hockey is tie with the TV soccer ratings and falling.
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#6 aylbert

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 08:59 PM

Its a good thing those are my two favorite sports to watch on tv. Americans suck and have no idea what they are missing. :)
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#7 Pepperkorn

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:11 PM

Its a good thing those are my two favorite sports to watch on tv. Americans suck and have no idea what they are missing. :)

Thanks Aylbert -- so glad you're here to enlighten us all


Sooo is this the IF Barry Melrose were a Devil smilie :huh: : Posted Image
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#8 DevilMinder

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:13 PM

Its a good thing those are my two favorite sports to watch on tv. Americans suck and have no idea what they are missing. :)

So very correct Aylbert, lord knows the rest of the countries in the world are Mecca's of the hockey sport!
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#9 Pepperkorn

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:29 PM

Posted Image YUCK no escaping Melrose! here's what i meant to post!

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#10 Pepperkorn

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Posted 14 July 2003 - 09:32 PM

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Israel is getting pretty big on hockey now! well...kind of...well I saw a whole special on it anyhow!
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#11 Tretyak 20

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 12:42 AM

TV rating in gerenal were off for NHL hockey and continue to be off.

Hockey fan base isn't growing Triumph, while they may grow in the expansion cities they lose in the core cities.

If defensive hockey is the answer, your answer Triumph, why does the NHL continue to talk about taking actions that will bring about more scoring? Answer, without more scoring hockey will become boring, fighting is off so that's no longer an interest to the fan. WOW defensive hockey, played between the blue line will be the end of the NHL. Trust me Triumph on this one. NHL TV contracts will go away, fans won't go the the games, prices will have to increase, more fan loss, corporate tickets sale will go away, look at the Devils the Corporations can't give away the seats they sign up for to customers, so their employees use them, that a benefit not planned for and when they try to find an employee that will go to the game they have trouble so empty seats in the lower section on a continuing bases even during playoffs, these are already paid for seats Triumph.

So you continue to champion defensive hockey and in time you won't have hockey to watch. Maybe before that the lockout, if it happens, will kill the game. Just not enough interest Triumph, no excitement, game difficult for some to understand. Lack of Scoring in soccer keeps the TV rating low and NHL hockey is tie with the TV soccer ratings and falling.


I always have to wonder why even some Devils fans fall for this crap. :(

Just my thoughts on this....

1). Yes, tv ratings are down from last year's finals. What were the ratings like for the 1993 finals? how about 1983? 1973? I remeber hockey being more a novelty on tv than a sport when I was growing up (not too long ago). Fact is The NHL fan base is growing (slowly) as it should.

2). Why does the NHL continue to talk about more scoring? I don't know, perhaps Bettman is a short-sighted idiot. More scoring is not the answer. Why? Because scoring costs money. Face facts, players (for the most part) get paid based on the number of points they score. Would anybody offer John Madden $10 mill. a year? No, but Fedorov got that offer. He is and always will cost more because he scores more. Why did Marty Lapointe and @$$Holik get their big money? because they were great grinders? Jay Pandolfo is a great grinder, think he'll get millions per year? Bottm line is goals cost money, and most of the league is running at or over budget. Gm's will always be willing to pay big bucks for a guy they think can score, even under a hard cap. If scoring increases and there's no hard cap, the league will spend itself out of existence. If there is a hard cap, many GM's willing still grossly over-pay for scorers, and if they don't perform, teams will be left for years with 1/3 or 1/2 their salaries tied up in guys like Lindros or Jagr. Such teams will be unable to compete. Think fans will rush to see that?

3). Funny, I thought soccer was kinda popular in Europe and South America. :rolleyes: As for defensive hockey not being popular, what can you expect? Every article I read about the Finals screamed about how boring they would be (before they even started). Do you think that's a good way to attract novice fans? Tell them the championship is boring? The fact is hockey is marketed wrong. Did you ever hear any NFL fan complain about how the Steelers ruined the sport with their "boring" defensive system and their "clogging up the center of the field"? I admit I'm not much of a football fan, but I seem to remeber lots of football fans enjoying defensive football. Seems to me that if TV announcers and sports writers could forget Gretzky for a little while and get fans excited about hits and saves, and (Heaven forbid!) defensive hockey, ratings might just improve.

P.S. - sorry for the long post. :D
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#12 peteyvegas

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 07:47 AM

Dont apologize for hitting a home run, Tret.
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#13 olp

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 08:31 AM

GR must have been a marketing major - seems as though he just loves this subject.

First off, Bettman is the problem here - not defensive hockey. I don't even think Bettman likes hockey, seems as it's just a job to him. And a job he's not doing very well, I might add.

As for fan bases, I see them growing slowly. And what's wrong with that? GR may see fans staying away from games and the fan base dying. I see more and more kids actually playing the sport than ever before. The rinks are crammed with kids more than ever before. Those kids will grow up with a real appreciation for the game and will become a new fan base in a few years.

If the NHL loses fans because of scoring being down, it's losing those fans who were going to lose interest eventually anyway. It will lose those casual fans who just jump on the latest bandwagon. The real fans are still there and will always be there.

How many times do we have to go over this attendance issue? Isn't the horse dead yet?

As for soccer, might as well watch paint dry in my opinion. Bunch of guys prancing around who if kicked in the shin, writhe around in pain as if they're dying. Some fun.

Americans do suck - why can't we riot after every game like the rest of the world?
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#14 Risky

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 08:33 AM

Triumph, it's easy to see, Triumph, when you've agitated GR, Triumph as he, Triumph, tends to refer to you by handle (in this case, Triumph), Triumph quite a bit in his follow up tirade.

Triumph.
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#15 sammyk

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 08:34 AM

Would anybody offer John Madden $10 mill. a year? No, but Fedorov got that offer.

Sather! Surely he thinks he's worth $1 million more than Holik. :D
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#16 Pepperkorn

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 12:25 PM

:lol: I see only I give GR's opinions the credit they deserve...


Are you sure I can't post any more naughty smilies DM? Just for fun? shucks! :saddevil:
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#17 MantaRay

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Posted 15 July 2003 - 12:35 PM

Tretyak 20==You are right on with your comments.
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