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Game 3 GDT | Devils @ Flyers | 6:00pm ET


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#521 Sickman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:03 PM

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.


Yeah he played one single shift I believe and then his ass was stapled to the bench.

You're a numbers guy and I'm sure you can show me something that will show that there really is not much of a difference between Skoula and Fraser over the season. No arguments there. But oh sh!t, we need to win game 3! Veteran player with playoff experience who is maybe not playing his best, or unproven youngster with no playoff experience being thrown into the fire in a swing game against a hard hitting in your face opponent? Great call JL.

With that piss poor effort in the third, the Devils would have lost the game even if they suited up an in his prime Larry Robinson. My beef is that Lemaire tried to fix one thing and messed up even more by making the move he did. And I can't see what major payoff he was hoping to cash in on by making that move.

Edited by Sickman, 19 April 2010 - 03:04 PM.

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#522 HellOnICE

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:04 PM

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.


Lou too. Lou is in on these decisions.
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#523 Sickman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:09 PM

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.


Fair enough, maybe I'm being too harsh on Lemaire specifically, but he is the head honcho. Whether it was a group decision or all on his own, it was just way too risky imo and it backfired on them big time. The game is complicated enough as it is. No reason to make it more difficult.
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#524 Triumph

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:09 PM

Yeah he played one single shift I believe and then his ass was stapled to the bench.

You're a numbers guy and I'm sure you can show me something that will show that there really is not much of a difference between Skoula and Fraser over the season. No arguments there. But oh sh!t, we need to win game 3! Veteran player with playoff experience who is maybe not playing his best, or unproven youngster with no playoff experience being thrown into the fire in a swing game against a hard hitting in your face opponent? Great call JL.

With that piss poor effort in the third, the Devils would have lost the game even if they suited up an in his prime Larry Robinson. My beef is that Lemaire tried to fix one thing and messed up even more by making the move he did. And I can't see what major payoff he was hoping to cash in on by making that move.


fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.
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#525 NJDevs26

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:11 PM

i can only roll my eyes at this stuff. do you really know, or have you even considered, the actual difference between fraser and skoula over the course of a season?


The difference is on most nights Skoula can play 16-18 minutes and won't kill you, whereas at best Fraser can match that and at worst he makes one mistake and we're down to five D the rest of the game, it's not like we hadn't seen that script before either. Besides, you don't play a cold rookie in his first playoff game on the road.

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all.


Aren't you the one that always goes on about small size sample? Skoula's actually been pretty good as a Devil until maybe the first game or two of the playoffs. Of course it helps when you're a stay-at-home guy to get paired with a mobile defender. Skoula was with Martin most of the season and Salvador in the playoffs so it's not a surprise he's struggling now.

Still there was no reason to do this, the risk-reward weighed too heavily in the risk column. There was very little reward and little chance of getting it but a lot of risk that was far more likely to happen.

Edited by NJDevs26, 19 April 2010 - 03:18 PM.

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#526 Sickman

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:16 PM

fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.


I guess big kitten is a good way to sum up his game lol. Fwiw I'd personally go with experience when there isn't much of a difference between two players but that may just be me. Like I said I agree that there is not much difference between Fraser and Skoula, their style of play not withstanding. I would have had no issue withe Fraser being in the lineup had they let the damn kid play. That is all I'm trying to say. The way it turned out, he was put into the lineup, played a few minutes and contributed to a goal against and keeping a spot on the bench all warm and crispy. 5 overworked d-men and an OT loss later, here we are.
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" 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1!! And the oldest trophy competed for in North America, LORD STANLEY'S CUP, has made it's way through the Lincoln Tunnel! To the Meadowlands! To the Garden State! THE NEW JERSEY DEVILS ARE THE 1995 STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!" Mike Miller, June 24th, 1995

" I have for some time been thinking that it would be a good thing if there were a challenge cup which should be held from year to year by the champion hockey team in the dominion" Frederick Arthur, Lord Stanley of Preston

#527 sundstrom

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:17 PM

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.


what do you mean "you people?" what do YOU mean "you people?!" setup for good quote aside, you're not talking with people to take this tack with. just because there's a vehement disagreement doesn't mean it's time to invoke rule 1.

as for your agrument regarding full season assessment, that's just not fair when every game is so critical and they have to be looked at as separate events.

didn't i hear all sorts of complaints when this was how brent sutter rolled last year?

Lemaire on the decision to use Fraser: “We all thought that he was ready because he sat for a long time and then we used him in a game (in the regular season) and he was really good,” Lemaire said. “We felt that we could get that type of game from him and we didn’t.” - I forget which game that was. When Lemaire is saying 'we all thought', he's clearly referring to the rest of the coaching staff.


he's referring to the buffalo game at the end of the season where he actually did play well. of course, buffalo doesn't play the style that the flyers do but i digress.


fraser is a physical defenseman whereas skoula plays like he's 5'11" 190 - skoula's just a big kitten out there. if he's not good positionally, as he hasn't been in the playoffs, then he's not good at all. you exaggerate the difference between fraser and skoula - my entire point is that there really isn't one. he was a disaster for pittsburgh and it wouldn't at all surprise me if he's not in the league next year.


you are completely disregarding experience here which really does matter when NEITHER player are difference makers of any sort from an offensive standpoint. except fraser is the kind of defenseman (at this stage in his career) that you attack while you give Skoula a bit of room because of his experience. Sure Fraser might sting a bit when he puts you into the boards or tries to muscle you off the puck. but at best, he was getting 12 minutes of ice last night. At worst, well - we saw what at worst was.

i am disappointed that my quote from earlier went unnoticed.
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20082719943.png
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“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#528 Triumph

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:48 PM

I guess big kitten is a good way to sum up his game lol. Fwiw I'd personally go with experience when there isn't much of a difference between two players but that may just be me. Like I said I agree that there is not much difference between Fraser and Skoula, their style of play not withstanding. I would have had no issue withe Fraser being in the lineup had they let the damn kid play. That is all I'm trying to say. The way it turned out, he was put into the lineup, played a few minutes and contributed to a goal against and keeping a spot on the bench all warm and crispy. 5 overworked d-men and an OT loss later, here we are.


they couldn't let him play though, the game plan had to be changed. the devils were getting killed in their own zone at even strength for most of the game.

i don't think skoula would've played 16 or 18 minutes on the road. the devils were clearly unhappy with his penalty killing, which, who could blame them.

and yeah sundstrom i've got nothing on that.
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#529 sundstrom

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:51 PM

and yeah sundstrom i've got nothing on that.


if i told you that i once claimed i was God in a deposition, would that help?
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"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#530 Daniel

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:53 PM

this talk of Skoula/Fraser is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic
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#531 sundstrom

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 03:55 PM

they couldn't let him play though, the game plan had to be changed. the devils were getting killed in their own zone at even strength for most of the game.


they've been getting killed all series and all 6 games in the regular season. we internet message board posters discussed this ad nauseum throughout the year and going into the playoffs. why can't frenchie mcgenius figure it out and plan accordingly like calling for very quick outlets and keeping a forward back as help to transition instead of looking for the homerun pass or the pass to a guy essentially standing still in the neutral zone looking to tip it to a winger skating on the side? it's the ONE play the devils have and rarely connects.

this talk of Skoula/Fraser is like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic


you're not helping here and for this argument, no, it's not.

also - you should obviously get the quote.
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"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#532 Triumph

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:12 PM

they've been getting killed all series and all 6 games in the regular season. we internet message board posters discussed this ad nauseum throughout the year and going into the playoffs. why can't frenchie mcgenius figure it out and plan accordingly like calling for very quick outlets and keeping a forward back as help to transition instead of looking for the homerun pass or the pass to a guy essentially standing still in the neutral zone looking to tip it to a winger skating on the side? it's the ONE play the devils have and rarely connects.


what, no. not really. the devils killed the flyers at even strength in game 2.

nothing on the next quote either.
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#533 Neutral Zone Trap

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:36 PM

because of the screw-up. couldn't trust him after that, considering it was a pretty simple play. so, he sat a guy who had a few screw-ups (or maybe better put, lacking effort plays), in a win, for a guy that contributed to a loss by choking on a forced error.

rolled the dice and lost. don't know if it was really necessary.

It was a non forced error afaic Max. He made a totally wrong decision when he had oodles of time to chip the puck around the horn.

Nothing against Fraser personally, but I don't want to see him in the lineup again this postseason.
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#534 sundstrom

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:40 PM

Tri - its Malice w/ Alec Baldwin.

Lots of good quotes in that one.

And regarding even strength play, it had more to do with the flyers actually NOT forechecking as much.
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20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#535 Devils731

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:43 PM

Devils Twitter has Elias and Lemaire quotes that Flyers had too many men on the ice for 5-10 seconds before the call on Clarkson in OT.

If true, that's rough, Devils get called for it with 5 guys on the ice and Flyers get around it with 6 right before a play that turned out to be pivotal.
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#536 Devil Fan

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:48 PM

First, it sucks to trail 2-1, but I still have hope in them and I won't give out comments because there are at least 2 more games to play.

Too early to surrender and I think the only thing they need to do better is to generate more offense like game 2 when they tried to break the tie in late 3rd.
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#537 MadDog2020

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 04:54 PM

Devils Twitter has Elias and Lemaire quotes that Flyers had too many men on the ice for 5-10 seconds before the call on Clarkson in OT.

If true, that's rough, Devils get called for it with 5 guys on the ice and Flyers get around it with 6 right before a play that turned out to be pivotal.

Whether or not it's true, (and if it is, yes it obviously sucks balls that it wasn't called), at this point, it sounds like an excuse.It doesn't excuse our piss poor play in the 3rd period.The only reason there was overtime to begin with was because of Marty. Just go win the next game.
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#538 maxpower

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 06:48 PM

I guess six is one more to hook and paw at. it's a nice excuse though. if they legitmately have six on the ice, scream fvcking "SIX!"... don't go and hook one of them in the neutral zone
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#539 NCDevsFan

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 06:50 PM

Devils Twitter has Elias and Lemaire quotes that Flyers had too many men on the ice for 5-10 seconds before the call on Clarkson in OT.

If true, that's rough, Devils get called for it with 5 guys on the ice and Flyers get around it with 6 right before a play that turned out to be pivotal.



That may be for the next game. Maybe they are hoping the refs will stop being the focus of this series.
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#540 PaDevsFan

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 08:04 PM

fraser played at least one more shift afterwards, but there's really no point in discussing this with you people.

sundstrom: my point about fraser and skoula is to distinguish how good they might be at any given point. there's no other way to do this than to assess their play over the season.



of course there is no discussing this, you are always right we have come to accept that...;

Hey still think they are playing "fine"??? And consistent??
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