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Devils give five-year commitment to move to Albany


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#81 RowdyFan42

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 08:52 PM

That is not the case with the Devils. The Devils are the owners – thus it is their RESPONSIBILITY to address these concerns. The buck stops in Newark, and shirking those responsibilities reflects badly on the organization. Especially when in Trenton’s case they rode into town and accepted all the accolades for keeping hockey in town (as it was most assuredly leaving) and spouted on and on about “Painting the town Devil Red, player appearances, all kinds of tie ins with the big club in order to grow the NJ Devil fan base.

This was explicitly brought up as the point of buying the franchise. EXPLICITLY. Little to none of what they’ve promised has come to fruition.

Excellent point. We can all go back and forth forever about what sort of responsibility the big club has to its farm cities and whether or not it's important to be competitive on the minor league level (and guys, THAT is what I mean when I mention "winning", I don't necessarily mean championships), but when you roll into town and say things like that (or, if you go back to the last few years in Albany, promise that yes, winning is important and you really are trying), you'd damn well better follow through. It's one thing to not give a sh!t, but to LIE about it? As I said in another post, we ain't stupid.

What they did do, was screw the Flyers, who figured no one would buy the Trenton franchise, it would go dark, and they’d plop the Phantoms in when the Spectrum came down. They miscalculated (as they were offered the franchise before the Devils got involved) and thus screwed their own fans in the process. So, it’s not just the Devils.....

Well... pardon me if I don't shed any tears for the Flyers. :giggle: The one good thing that came out of that is Glens Falls getting a team back. Kinda pissed that the Spectrum is still standing, although I understand that the place has been pretty much dismantled on the inside. We love to bash Philly on this board and for good reason, but Phantoms fans were, for the most part, really good people. The Phantoms (and the Kixx and there's another team or two that escapes me) were the family-friendly alternative to the major-league teams whose fanbases have become so hated.
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IT IS VERY HARD TO WIN ONE STANLEY CUP, FORGET ABOUT THREE... and maybe it's high time some of you actually APPRECIATED THAT instead of treating it like it's some flipping birthright because for some random reason you rooted for the damn Devils!!!!! Posted Image


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#82 Satans Hockey

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:03 PM

I've always wanted to ask, is there any real hope of seeing a professional player in Trenton? I don't know of many ECHL players currently playing in the NHL other than maybe the occasional goon here and there (Leblond?). No offense but I never really considered Trenton a Devils minor league team as much as I considered them a Rats/Lowell minor league taxi squad.


http://echl.com/alumni/

go threw that list, you would be surprised at how many guys have started out in the ECHL.
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#83 RowdyFan42

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:14 PM

:hail: again! Rowdy, I wish Lou would take a class in Minor League Hockey Team Management from you.

:giggle: All I can say is, I lived it before you, and it looks like I get to live it again (though hopefully with better results). (EDIT: Isn't that the definition of insanity? :whistling: )

I don't know where your NHL loyalties lie (I don't think you've ever said), and the same with titans04 and the other Trenton fans, but being a fan of both the NHL Devils and one of their farm clubs, I've found myself in the position of simultaneously loving Lou for building three Cup winners and hating his guts for letting the farm system rot. Back when the Devils were here the first time and they were in the middle of falling apart at the seams, a few of us tried to warn the rest of the board that the Devils' failures on the minor league level would come back to haunt the big club eventually. Not to start another argument -- and believe me, this one could probably get its own thread -- but we may have been right.
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IT IS VERY HARD TO WIN ONE STANLEY CUP, FORGET ABOUT THREE... and maybe it's high time some of you actually APPRECIATED THAT instead of treating it like it's some flipping birthright because for some random reason you rooted for the damn Devils!!!!! Posted Image


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#84 Neb00rs

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 09:23 PM

Okay, I misinterpreted your tone then. I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that the quality of the AHL and NHL clubs aren't necessarily tied together, but I'm talking more about the quality of the AHL team influencing the quality of the individual players that come out of said team. I do disagree with the idea that the top NHL players don't spend time in the AHL, though. It depends on the player; some hit the NHL right out of college/juniors/Europe and are stars immediately (Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin), and others spend at least some time seasoning in the minors (Parise, Brodeur, Elias). The rest of the roster is invariably going to go through the system, though, and obviously you're going to want them to develop as fully as possible.

I'm not saying that the best organizations are the ones that go out and buy the Calder Cup and Kelly Cup (the AHL and ECHL championships) every year. That's probably counterproductive, if you think about it. Emphasizing winning and hoping that development happens because of the winning is not the same thing as winning while developing. What you need to do is strike a balance between your prospects and the other players who fill out the roster, including veterans. The AHL even has a rule stating that you can't dress more than 6(?) vets per game (and I think the ECHL has a similar rule).

Ok. I'm not sure if I agree with you. If you are stating that the AHL management and coaching staff need to emphasize a winning attitude then I agree. But if your saying that the team needs to win for a player to develop than I disagree. Brodeur's a winner (3 Cups) and he didn't win anything in the AHL. As amatter of fact he was hardly over .500. Brodeur knew how to win from his days in junior hockey and I do think it's important for a player to win in junior hockey. I just don't buy that winning matters for player development in the AHL. I think the attitude that the management and coaching staff instills in their players is what's important.
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#85 Shtikl

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Posted 28 April 2010 - 10:29 PM

:giggle: All I can say is, I lived it before you, and it looks like I get to live it again (though hopefully with better results). (EDIT: Isn't that the definition of insanity? :whistling: )

I don't know where your NHL loyalties lie (I don't think you've ever said), and the same with titans04 and the other Trenton fans, but being a fan of both the NHL Devils and one of their farm clubs, I've found myself in the position of simultaneously loving Lou for building three Cup winners and hating his guts for letting the farm system rot. Back when the Devils were here the first time and they were in the middle of falling apart at the seams, a few of us tried to warn the rest of the board that the Devils' failures on the minor league level would come back to haunt the big club eventually. Not to start another argument -- and believe me, this one could probably get its own thread -- but we may have been right.


I remember when the Rats switched affiliations. I felt bad for you, knowing you were a real Devils fan. You did say the Devils would be much less fan-friendly than the Lock Monsters, and you were right. I hope you enjoyed the 'Canes prospects.

I have no NHL loyalty. I kinda like the T-Devils, but they're a little far, and anyway, they suffer from Devils-don't-give-a-sh!t-itis too.

:giggle: I agree with you, that the biggest reason the Devils lost this year is because they didn't demand success of their minor league teams. And now, before the inevitable hail of dung hits, let's get out our umbrellas. :giggle:

PS -- somebody should send Ovechkin a case of Smuckers. ;)

Edited by Shtikl, 28 April 2010 - 10:31 PM.

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#86 Devils1985

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:47 AM

Excellent point. We can all go back and forth forever about what sort of responsibility the big club has to its farm cities and whether or not it's important to be competitive on the minor league level (and guys, THAT is what I mean when I mention "winning", I don't necessarily mean championships), but when you roll into town and say things like that (or, if you go back to the last few years in Albany, promise that yes, winning is important and you really are trying), you'd damn well better follow through. It's one thing to not give a sh!t, but to LIE about it? As I said in another post, we ain't stupid.


That's what gets people irritated here. Now, there's no question the Titans were going bye bye unless someone bought the team, so we definitely thank them for that...but this was a franchise that even then was eroding from the top down and the Devils gave hope things would get better instead of continue to erode. Especially since it made sense, to me, to try and use Trenton to grow the NJ Devils fanbase. That's a long term project, and gave me hope they were here for the long haul (and they do seem to be, but then Lemaire wasn't going anywhere either so.....) but it makes the lack of effort puzzling.


Well... pardon me if I don't shed any tears for the Flyers. :giggle: The one good thing that came out of that is Glens Falls getting a team back. Kinda pissed that the Spectrum is still standing, although I understand that the place has been pretty much dismantled on the inside. We love to bash Philly on this board and for good reason, but Phantoms fans were, for the most part, really good people. The Phantoms (and the Kixx and there's another team or two that escapes me) were the family-friendly alternative to the major-league teams whose fanbases have become so hated.


A lot of people get priced out of the NHL too, especially on a STH level. The Phantoms addressed that. Philly fans aren't going to come to Trenton (by and large) to watch Devils ECHL hockey. More would have - at least occasionally - done so to see Philly's AHL group. Such is life in the minors though - it's part of why the ECHL now has zero clubs in the same city they started in when the league began.
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#87 titans04

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 09:24 AM

:giggle: All I can say is, I lived it before you, and it looks like I get to live it again (though hopefully with better results). (EDIT: Isn't that the definition of insanity? :whistling: )

I don't know where your NHL loyalties lie (I don't think you've ever said), and the same with titans04 and the other Trenton fans, but being a fan of both the NHL Devils and one of their farm clubs, I've found myself in the position of simultaneously loving Lou for building three Cup winners and hating his guts for letting the farm system rot. Back when the Devils were here the first time and they were in the middle of falling apart at the seams, a few of us tried to warn the rest of the board that the Devils' failures on the minor league level would come back to haunt the big club eventually. Not to start another argument -- and believe me, this one could probably get its own thread -- but we may have been right.



You and Devils1985 make a lot of great points.

First and foremost I'm a Trenton hockey fan - that's where our ~2k has gone for the last 7 years, during that time they could have rolled out al qadea on the ice and I would have supported them 100%. Not the org but the players. In short the logo on the sweater is meaningless and it's about icing a very competitive team, not pissing away the first half of the season year in and year out. There just isn't enough of a Devils fanbase in Flyers territory that will come just to pay homage to the logo. Frankly it's hard to beleive how they ever even thought that was going to be possible. Change the logo, recarpet and paint the lockerroom, as a result the town will be painted red and fans will just show up. Now to their credit the sth do get free tickets for a Devils game at the Rock. It's appreciated. But this past season they even found a way to lessen the good will of that perk - the very top row on an end for a mid-week game - really?? There were 5k empty seats, previously they were maybe 20 rows off the ice in the attack zone. Even the Trenton front office was horrified when they opened the package and saw where the seats were, they immediately reached out to Newark and were bascially told it is what it is.

I also agree with the fact that after winning the Kelly cup in 04-05 the Bermans were going to ride out their 10 year commitment on the cheap and then fold if they didn't find a buyer. As previously said that's what the Flyers were counting on, at that point they would slide the Phantoms in. So when the announcement came out that the Devils were buying the team and then rode in on their white horse and blew smoke up everybodys collective ass there was a great sense of stability and commitment. Especially for the people that didn't know the Devils minor league track record.

As stated over and over they have failed miserably to met any of the "promises" that were made. The town and area certainly hasn't been painted Devils red. There has been no NHL player sightings which would draw the casual fan. The marketing plan up until now has been to reachout to the ever dwindling season ticket holder fan base and offer them deals to bring along their friends and family.

I think the 5 year commitment to Albany will eventually lead to the Devils disappearing in Trenton in the next 3-4 years. By then literally a few hundred people may show-up on weekends. I think the ECHL as a whole is in big trouble with the teams becoming way to spreadout. Johnstown moved to SC, Wheeling now playing 10 games in Johnstown - flipping off the paper this fanbase in Wheeling. The T-Devils schedule this past season was already junk having played Reading and Elmira 14 times each. There are no real true prospects in Trenton - very very low draft picks (if that) mostly undrafted college kids/ kids from Jrs.

For that matter can somebody please put together a list of players that spent a fair amount of time in Lowell that have been impact players for the big club since the lockout. Clarkson? That's about it and his impact isn't all that much. They foster the development of interchangable parts that have led to virtually no playoff success since the lockout. But that's their motive, obviously they had tremendous success pre-lockout at the NHL level. How many years ago was that at this point?

As much as I loathe everything that's orange and black I still think there is a chance that within the next 4-5 seasons the Phantoms do end up in Trenton if the arena never gets built up in PA. I also think they would draw 4-5k on average just for showing up and as I Trenton fan first and foremost that would be a helluva lot better than where we sit today. I wouldn't be surprised if the novelty of owning a ECHL team had faded so far off the Devils radar screen that they would be long gone having driven the final nail in a once proud Trenton fanbase. Trenton was Lou's idea, when Lou goes the T-Devils go too imo.

The ECHL'ers that make the NHL on the surface would appear to be decent. However when you look at it closer it's over 20+ years and the majority of them had a cup of coffee in the ECHL or on the flip side had a very small handful of games in the NHL under "emergency" type situations, where the NHL rosters have been decimated by injuries. Realistically it's the goalies and goons that have the best odds and even those oddds are very very long.

Edited by titans04, 29 April 2010 - 09:28 AM.

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#88 Shtikl

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 12:08 PM

First and foremost I'm a Trenton hockey fan - that's where our ~2k has gone for the last 7 years, during that time they could have rolled out al Qaeda on the ice and I would have supported them 100%. Not the org but the players. In short the logo on the sweater is meaningless and it's about icing a very competitive team, not pissing away the first half of the season year in and year out.


Priceless. :evilcry:
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#89 Fidgetess

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 05:32 PM

Wow, it's strange to post here again. The Devs slogan: everything old is new again.

I figured I would throw my two cents in: I'm very disappointed that they're back. We're losing a very good, very promising team who are proving that you can develop players AND be successful and competitive. That's all I really wanted from the Devils, and they flat out refuse to make it happen. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. More than half the guys I will cheer on tonight will be full time NHLers within 3 years, and the Hurricanes will be a dominant team.

Rowdy is voicing my feelings, only I'm more upset than he is. How often I post back in here depends on if I can stomach watching that team again. They have to make up for a LOT before I can fully cheer for them again.
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#90 Satans Hockey

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 05:54 PM

Looks to be pretty official about the name change we all knew was going to happen...

http://blog.timesuni...ny-devils/5446/
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#91 Triumph

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:01 PM

Wow, it's strange to post here again. The Devs slogan: everything old is new again.

I figured I would throw my two cents in: I'm very disappointed that they're back. We're losing a very good, very promising team who are proving that you can develop players AND be successful and competitive. That's all I really wanted from the Devils, and they flat out refuse to make it happen. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. More than half the guys I will cheer on tonight will be full time NHLers within 3 years, and the Hurricanes will be a dominant team.


the hurricanes have one of the worst farm systems in the league. while the 'canes look to have some decent talent there, the claim that half the guys on that team will be full time NHLers in 3 years is extraordinary optimism. i'd be shocked if a quarter of the players were.
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#92 Satans Hockey

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 06:02 PM

Someone posted in the comments that they should name the Albany Anti-christs. Great name! haha
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#93 skullsmasher

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:01 PM

So the people of Massachusetts get their hockey team taken away from them huh? That's lowell...

Pun intended.
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#94 Shtikl

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:35 PM

So the people of Massachusetts get their hockey team taken away from them huh? That's lowell...

Pun intended.


You could put it another way: the NJ Devils just threw away many of their Massachusetts fans. Word is that many of the people who used to be Lowly Dweebles STHs will be going to either Manchester or Worcester to get their minor league hockey fix.
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#95 skullsmasher

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Posted 29 April 2010 - 07:39 PM

I like your style
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#96 Devil Dan 56

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 10:24 AM

So the people of Massachusetts get their hockey team taken away from them huh? That's lowell...

Pun intended.


Lowellz.
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#97 RowdyFan42

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 12:49 PM

the hurricanes have one of the worst farm systems in the league. while the 'canes look to have some decent talent there, the claim that half the guys on that team will be full time NHLers in 3 years is extraordinary optimism. i'd be shocked if a quarter of the players were.

Yeah, Tri, the Canes' farm system sucks. That's why the Rats were able to take the defending Calder Cup champions and the best team in the damn league to overtime in three of the four games of their SECOND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES. :rolleyes: Don't let the sweep fool you, the Canes prospects proved they were able to hang with the best in every game, they simply got overpowered in the end.

Since you're such a fan of statistics, chew on this: In the four-game series, the Bears led for a total of 28 minutes, 39 seconds (4:25 Game 1; 20:39 Game 2; 0:00 Game 3; 3:35 Game 4). The Rats led for 98 minutes, 42 seconds (15:10 Game 1; 3:48 Game 2; 44:57 Game 3; 34:47 Game 4). The two teams were tied for 141 minutes, 51 seconds (51:06 Game 1; 35:33 Game 2; 31:11 Game 3; 24:01 Game 4).
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IT IS VERY HARD TO WIN ONE STANLEY CUP, FORGET ABOUT THREE... and maybe it's high time some of you actually APPRECIATED THAT instead of treating it like it's some flipping birthright because for some random reason you rooted for the damn Devils!!!!! Posted Image


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#98 Triumph

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 01:30 PM

Yeah, Tri, the Canes' farm system sucks. That's why the Rats were able to take the defending Calder Cup champions and the best team in the damn league to overtime in three of the four games of their SECOND ROUND PLAYOFF SERIES. :rolleyes: Don't let the sweep fool you, the Canes prospects proved they were able to hang with the best in every game, they simply got overpowered in the end.

Since you're such a fan of statistics, chew on this: In the four-game series, the Bears led for a total of 28 minutes, 39 seconds (4:25 Game 1; 20:39 Game 2; 0:00 Game 3; 3:35 Game 4). The Rats led for 98 minutes, 42 seconds (15:10 Game 1; 3:48 Game 2; 44:57 Game 3; 34:47 Game 4). The two teams were tied for 141 minutes, 51 seconds (51:06 Game 1; 35:33 Game 2; 31:11 Game 3; 24:01 Game 4).


i don't care whether or not they got swept, or took them to 7 games, or whatever - i had absolutely no idea what happened in the playoffs. one thing i do know is that zach boychuk and bryan rodney probably would've been up in the NHL (maybe playing, maybe not) had the 'canes made the playoffs, so there's that.

then there's the 'canes draft record over the last 10 years, which is even worse than new jersey's, aside from the layup top picks they've gotten. to find a player who was better than a depth performer drafted by the 'canes after the 1st round, you have to go back to 1998 with erik cole.

of the players who played in the playoffs, i'd put only boychuk and mcbain as very very likely NHLers in the next 3 years, with boychuk a near certainty. samson could be an NHLer, could be an AHL lifer, depends on how his next season goes. dalpe has serious potential, i didn't notice him there. guys like bowman, tlusty, and osala are hit or miss - all three could make it, all three could miss. rodney could mottau his way into the NHL, he could wash out after 30 games with a new team - players that old have a rather short leash when it comes to making the NHL. the goaltending i'm not qualified to speak about. and the rest seem rather unlikely to go anywhere.

Edited by Triumph, 30 April 2010 - 01:33 PM.

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#99 NJDevs4978

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 03:39 PM

It should be easier for the Canes to have a good farm system considering they bottom out like two out of every three years between their spastic playoff runs, I'm not sure that really means they want to win AHL games more than the Devils do :P
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#100 Falstaff

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Posted 30 April 2010 - 05:18 PM

I have been boycotting the Bruins since they traded Steve Kasper, and the Lowell Devils really got me back into watching hockey again. Whatever issues the organization in Lowell may have had and/or come up against, they really treated me and my family well. We will miss them mucho. I will follow the NJ Devils and the Albany team just to keep track of the players I like, but I don't think I will be heading west to see the Sharks.
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