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New Kovy Update ("As the Kovy Turns")


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#7041 Devs1965

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:49 PM

Eh, we already have a 5 million dollar fine that counts against the cap.

That 5mil you speak of =Rolston?
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#7042 GoArmySports

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:53 PM

:hail: We should keep this thread open till Kovalchuk retires, maybe we could get 1 million replies! :offtopic:
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#7043 SS-SS

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 06:58 PM

That 5mil you speak of =Rolston?

Good one
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#7044 maxpower

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:19 PM

they are not punished for losing the case. only the player/agent can be fined for the case. I don't even see how they can be punished by the league because it's a non existant incident. they wrote a bad contract and the player/agent went to the PA and complained. the Devils did none of the kind. it's not circumvention if it didn't happen, and the league would have to have an investigation in order to find out if there was some kind of deal under the table that would lead you to believe actual circumvention.

you guys spazz too easily about this stuff, and if TG says they can be punished in the hearing, he's wrong.

if Bettman pushes too hard, he's done... because it will end up in the real courts and he'd be forced to punish other teams. he needs all the votes he can get. let's not forget, he almost lost his job for the head of Texas Motor Speedway following the lockout. and he knows what about what?!

his position is not as strong as it seems. if they were really interested in dropping the hammer, they should have allowed the contract and then investigated it. really, the way I see it, the only realistic way the team can be punished is if the arbitrator rules FOR the PA, not against it.
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#7045 Martyisth3b3st

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:51 PM

:rimshot:

Sucks that Frolov seems like he is going to the rags. Will be interesting to see what they do to clear the cap space.

? they have plenty of cap space to sign him, if I recall.
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#7046 overtime98

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:55 PM

? they have plenty of cap space to sign him, if I recall.



thats right, I think they have about 10 million free.
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#7047 MartysGlove

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 07:58 PM

? they have plenty of cap space to sign him, if I recall.


capgeek has them at 4.4 free, but they still have to sign Staal who's an RFA as well


Burying Redden in the AHL opens up 6.5 though
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#7048 maxpower

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:00 PM

capgeek has them at 4.4 free, but they still have to sign Staal who's an RFA as well


Burying Redden in the AHL opens up 6.5 though


good luck with that in this environment. that's not even questionable cap circumvention, that's blatant.
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#7049 MartysGlove

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:07 PM

good luck with that in this environment. that's not even questionable cap circumvention, that's blatant.


How?

I think half of the posters here don't realize the difference between circumvention and... following the CBA.

The CBA allows for him to be buried in the minors, how is that circumventing the CBA?
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#7050 maxpower

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:08 PM

How?

I think half of the posters here don't realize the difference between circumvention and... following the CBA.

The CBA allows for him to be buried in the minors, how is that circumventing the CBA?


AFAIK, it's never been tested quite like that. someone who is capable of playing in the league, but is paid too much.

Dan McGillis going to the minors doesn't compare
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#7051 jkrdevil

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:15 PM

Max is right. So far the only guys who have been buried for multiple years are guys who clearly can't play in the league anymore. If the Rangers try to bury Redden the PA is going to scream bloody murder, especially after this situation. It would probably get to the point where the Rangers would be forced to put him on re-entry waivers.

Edited by jkrdevil, 26 July 2010 - 08:25 PM.

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#7052 Daniel

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:21 PM

AFAIK, it's never been tested quite like that. someone who is capable of playing in the league, but is paid too much.

Dan McGillis going to the minors doesn't compare


Didn't the Devils do the same thing to Mogilny? Not as politically uncomfortable as it would be to send Redden to the AHL, but I think it's comparable enough.
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#7053 Triumph

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:23 PM

rangers would have to do very little to clear the cap space, either waive/trade eminger or deal matt gilroy.
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#7054 Amberite

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:25 PM

The Rangers would be playing with fire if they tried to put Redden in the minors. It creates a situation where no player would feel safe with their job, and the NHLPA would definitely object. The Rangers have to find another solution for Redden.
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#7055 maxpower

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:27 PM

Didn't the Devils do the same thing to Mogilny? Not as politically uncomfortable as it would be to send Redden to the AHL, but I think it's comparable enough.


Mogilny counted against the cap. they didn't get him off until he "failed a physical" the next training camp. Mogs was basically just fired. it had no effect on the cap.
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#7056 jkrdevil

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:27 PM

Didn't the Devils do the same thing to Mogilny? Not as politically uncomfortable as it would be to send Redden to the AHL, but I think it's comparable enough.


They sent Mogilny down the first year after the lockout, but the second year he was technically on LTIR-exemption all year. The situation isn't comparable either. Mogilny couldn't play anymore and was at the end of his career. Same with MicGillis. Those guys basically retired after that. If Redden was a UFA he would still find an NHL job at a decent salary instead of the major one he gets now.
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#7057 mmajeski06

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 09:40 PM

And now we play the waiting game. Thank god I am going on vacation next week...should make the time fly by.
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#7058 Neb00rs

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 09:57 PM

The more I think about this whole situation, the more I am coming to be sure that the Devils are gonna win this case.

This is going to be very simple for an arbitrator who is an experienced lawyer. He's going to read the contract and then read the CBA. He's going to see what is obvious - there is clear intent to circumvent the CBA. But there are some facts that simply trump that intent.

1. He is certainly going to factor in the standard the NHL has set with previous contracts.

2. The arbitrator is not going to be basing his judgment solely on something as intangible as the "spirit of the cap". He's going to take the history of similiar contracts and say to himself, "On what grounds can this contract be invalid?" He'll then have to take the literal sense of the CBA into account along with this "Spirit of the Cap" the NHL speaks of.

3. He'll see in the CBA that there is nothing that says that a 17 year contract is allowed but a 15 year contract is ok. He'll realize that it is completly wrong to reject the contract based on the idea that Kovy's contract breaks the "spirit of the cap" but other simliar contract don't. The contract is just not that much longer and not that much different overall than the others to make the argument. If it was 25 years then you could start the debate that it's just too blatantly a way to make the Cap useless.

4. I think the league knows they're going to lose. They had to reject the contract as a way to save face. You might think they'll lose face by losing to the Devils but they'd look really bad if they just continued to let these contracts get worse and worse without saying a word. This rejection says, "The cap is real".

Edited by ben00rs, 26 July 2010 - 09:59 PM.

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#7059 DH26

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 10:23 PM

Mogilny counted against the cap. they didn't get him off until he "failed a physical" the next training camp. Mogs was basically just fired. it had no effect on the cap.


IIRC they sent him down to make room for Elias coming back form hepatitis. IDK maybe I'm just forgetting since it was 4 yrs ago
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#7060 grcenter47

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 11:10 PM

The more I think about this whole situation, the more I am coming to be sure that the Devils are gonna win this case.

This is going to be very simple for an arbitrator who is an experienced lawyer. He's going to read the contract and then read the CBA. He's going to see what is obvious - there is clear intent to circumvent the CBA. But there are some facts that simply trump that intent.

1. He is certainly going to factor in the standard the NHL has set with previous contracts.

2. The arbitrator is not going to be basing his judgment solely on something as intangible as the "spirit of the cap". He's going to take the history of similiar contracts and say to himself, "On what grounds can this contract be invalid?" He'll then have to take the literal sense of the CBA into account along with this "Spirit of the Cap" the NHL speaks of.

3. He'll see in the CBA that there is nothing that says that a 17 year contract is allowed but a 15 year contract is ok. He'll realize that it is completly wrong to reject the contract based on the idea that Kovy's contract breaks the "spirit of the cap" but other simliar contract don't. The contract is just not that much longer and not that much different overall than the others to make the argument. If it was 25 years then you could start the debate that it's just too blatantly a way to make the Cap useless.

4. I think the league knows they're going to lose. They had to reject the contract as a way to save face. You might think they'll lose face by losing to the Devils but they'd look really bad if they just continued to let these contracts get worse and worse without saying a word. This rejection says, "The cap is real".



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