12374 replies to this topic

[sundstrom]

I think if he was willing to take something in the ballpark of 10/$80M, we'd be home already. we'll never know about these deals, but we know why the first one was knocked down and these were too. would not be surprised if there's similiarities.

the Devils are bidding against the Devils and he's still looking for as big a check as humanly possible.

again, what's wrong with a 10/$77M deal with a larger backend?

i'm gonna agree with tri on this because a cap hit greater than $7MM is a huge problem for the devils for the next two years.

[maxpower]

i assume by 10/80 and 10/77 you are referring to longer contracts, because a 10 year deal at that cap hit would be godawful. the first contract paid out much more money in 12 years. you are asking kovalchuk to give up like $15 million. it's easy to see why he would balk at that.

for every crosby and ovechkin to erroneously compare this deal to, there's an eric staal or vincent lecavalier.

and yeah i've been lurking HFboards during this mess and man are there a lot of single digit IQs over there.

yeah, these are 13 year, low $90M contracts, I'm just removing the pretense. he seems to be looking for 10 years and money. anything after that is up in the air, he could play it out, he probably won't. in these, if he plays it out, he either gets his money by playing or by being bought out.

as for asking him to give up $15M. it is what it is. his demands and our cap position can't be rectified. there's no one else (in this league, at least) in on him. the Kings continually are signing and using their space. so, since this is a negotiation, shouldn't he be losing something? say, $77M for 10 years, and whatever comes afterwards... it's nothing to sneeze at.

he can come back and say "that's BS. you offered me $95M, and now you want me to accept this." fine. but those demands lead to this disaster. he lost. now it's in his court. he can take that money or he can go play for SKA and take non guaranteed money and fade away. I could care less.

I just do not think this guy is a martyr, and the CW (not as much here), is that he's a big-time martyr.

Edited by maxpower, 25 August 2010 - 05:42 PM.

[PattyElias26]

we should take kovys army down. and then if and when he does sign replace the flames in "E V S" with a picture of elias in the E, a picture of marty in the V and a picture of parise in the S. Kovy has to earn his respect.

[SMantzas]

we should take kovys army down. and then if and when he does sign replace the flames in "E V S" with a picture of elias in the E, a picture of marty in the V and a picture of parise in the S. Kovy has to earn his respect.

Its just that he's our new star Let him play more games and I'm sure he'll win many people over. The fact that I saw him busting his @ss every play in the playoffs has me sold

[Triumph]

yeah, these are 13 year, low $90M contracts, I'm just removing the pretense. he seems to be looking for 10 years and money. anything after that is up in the air, he could play it out, he probably won't. in these, if he plays it out, he either gets his money by playing or by being bought out.

as for asking him to give up $15M. it is what it is. his demands and our cap position can't be rectified. there's no one else (in this league, at least) in on him. the Kings continually are signing and using their space. so, since this is a negotiation, shouldn't he be losing something? say, $77M for 10 years, and whatever comes afterwards... it's nothing to sneeze at.

he can come back and say "that's BS. you offered me $95M, and now you want me to accept this." fine. but those demands lead to this disaster. he lost. now it's in his court. he can take that money or he can go play for SKA and take non guaranteed money and fade away. I could care less.

I just do not think this guy is a martyr, and the CW (not as much here), is that he's a big-time martyr.

well, that's all fair, but $15M is $15M. that's a lot of money to leave on the table. and all we have to go on here are hearsay and conjecture, which while according to lionel hutz are 'kinds' of evidence, they're not really substantial. i agree that with everyone's blinded bettman hate, kovalchuk's seeming greed is being lost.

how about a super-front loaded deal along the lines of this?

11.5 11.5 11.5 11.5 11 7 7 7 3 3 3 2 2

it pays him 46 million in the first 4 seasons, and 84 in the first 10.

Edited by Triumph, 25 August 2010 - 06:18 PM.

[jagknife]

Report off twitter:

Fehr accepts NHLPA job.


uhhh... about 2 weeks too late there Don, thanks for delaying long enough not to make an immediate impact


now whip these [cats] into shape

[Amberite]

Yep, seems like the NHLPA wasn't very happy with the whole Kovy thing. I'm sure they were considering Fehr previously, but this whole fiasco probably cemented him in the #1 position.

[sundstrom]

as for asking him to give up $15M. it is what it is. his demands and our cap position can't be rectified. there's no one else (in this league, at least) in on him. the Kings continually are signing and using their space. so, since this is a negotiation, shouldn't he be losing something? say, $77M for 10 years, and whatever comes afterwards... it's nothing to sneeze at.

he can come back and say "that's BS. you offered me $95M, and now you want me to accept this." fine. but those demands lead to this disaster. he lost. now it's in his court. he can take that money or he can go play for SKA and take non guaranteed money and fade away. I could care less.

i'm bolding demands here because, by all accounts, the devils offered him the 17/102 deal early on and then sat while he tried to get similar from LA which was clearly his first choice. now i could see him have issue if the reported 15/85 deal from LA isn't bested but then again - we'd hope to assume that deal would've also been rejected by the league (unless you want to wear anti-devils bettman thinking in your tinfoil hat).

looking at his history, i believe kovalchuk deserves a better contract than hossa and that's what everyone's trying to do while keeping the cap number at or under $7MM.

[SMantzas]

well, that's all fair, but $15M is $15M. that's a lot of money to leave on the table. and all we have to go on here are hearsay and conjecture, which while according to lionel hutz are 'kinds' of evidence, they're not really substantial. i agree that with everyone's blinded bettman hate, kovalchuk's seeming greed is being lost.

how about a super-front loaded deal along the lines of this?

11.5 11.5 11.5 11.5 11 7 7 7 3 3 3 2 2

it pays him 46 million in the first 4 seasons, and 84 in the first 10.

We all know that someone has to give. Whether its Kovalchuk or the Devils remains to be seen. I really like your proposal though. I feel that it is somewhat realistic that Kovy would play the last 5 years of the deal. Even though I doubt it, it's believable to say, the NHL. A cap hit of 7 mil is fair for both parties I feel. I'm not familiar with Hossa's deal, but is it the same structure?

[sundstrom]

well, that's all fair, but $15M is $15M. that's a lot of money to leave on the table. and all we have to go on here are hearsay and conjecture, which while according to lionel hutz are 'kinds' of evidence, they're not really substantial. i agree that with everyone's blinded bettman hate, kovalchuk's seeming greed is being lost.

how about a super-front loaded deal along the lines of this?

11.5 11.5 11.5 11.5 11 7 7 7 3 3 3 2 2

it pays him 46 million in the first 4 seasons, and 84 in the first 10.

i don't think the devils want this - they want the next two years relatively low and then the middle years (especially the lockout years) at the high number.

[ice dog]

hey i'm the smug bastard who bloched your ass devils...suckers...
best rgards,
~Dick

ps want to see me pull a rabbit out of gary bettman's ass?

[maxpower]

i don't think the devils want this - they want the next two years relatively low and then the middle years (especially the lockout years) at the high number.

yeah, that's another bizarre feature. I call it the "Rolston tax".

Tri, I think the front years kill that contract dead. $7M cap with $11.5M years = bad. I think that was in the ruling talking about the separation between cap salary and actual salary.

[jagknife]

Yep, seems like the NHLPA wasn't very happy with the whole Kovy thing. I'm sure they were considering Fehr previously, but this whole fiasco probably cemented him in the #1 position.

yeah but this tweet has me a little nervous, not gonna lie:

dchesnokov

I am tracking developments after that call KHL Pres Medvedev received from Kovy's agent. After I confirm a few things, I'll post an update

[Neb00rs]

well, that's all fair, but $15M is $15M. that's a lot of money to leave on the table. and all we have to go on here are hearsay and conjecture, which while according to lionel hutz are 'kinds' of evidence, they're not really substantial. i agree that with everyone's blinded bettman hate, kovalchuk's seeming greed is being lost.

how about a super-front loaded deal along the lines of this?

11.5 11.5 11.5 11.5 11 7 7 7 3 3 3 2 2

it pays him 46 million in the first 4 seasons, and 84 in the first 10.

Kovy ain't taking a deal that's paying him only 7 million in only the sixth year of his contract.

Anyways, we're debating nothing because there's no delay here between Kovy and the Devs. Lou drafted up a 15 year deal that would give a minimum cap hit and it got rejected. Now he'll either submit that contract and go to arbitration (prob not gonna happen) or he is gonna draft up a 13 or 14 year deal with a minimum cap hit. Kovy and his agent are going to do what they've done all along: "Ok the contract pays what we want, let's sign it and hope it's the last time we have to do so."

[Triumph]

dude give me a break, the contract pays him pretty much the maximum in the first 5 seasons. under that logic, why would he take a deal that pays him 6 million dollars in year one?

[Neb00rs]

dude give me a break, the contract pays him pretty much the maximum in the first 5 seasons. under that logic, why would he take a deal that pays him 6 million dollars in year one?

In years 9 and 10 he was going to get paid 8.5 and 6.5 respectfully, that's 2 years of being well overpaid for the first two years of being underpaid. Sure Kovy might take that for the 11.5 for 4 years but compare that to the 5 years at 11.5 in the original contract.

Don't get me wrong I like your 13/91 - look at my posts - I now think we are going to see that, I just don't think it will be structured that way.

Prediction: 11 11 11 11 11 9 8 8 4 3 3 2 2 1 14/95 = 6.78 cap hit

Edited by ben00rs, 25 August 2010 - 06:58 PM.

[maxpower]

well, that rumor machine is really cranking full steam. so, this is the plan? "Let me have $85M in 10 years or I'm leaving?" yeah, that'll work.

Grossman is going to hang himself

[Triumph]

well, that rumor machine is really cranking full steam. so, this is the plan? "Let me have $85M in 10 years or I'm leaving?" yeah, that'll work.

Grossman is going to hang himself

with a diamond studded noose. still don't think kovalchuk is really interested in the KHL, their season starts in a week.

[Neb00rs]

with a diamond studded noose. still don't think kovalchuk is really interested in the KHL, their season starts in a week.

Might be a chess move to scare the league.

EDIT: not the hanging, the phone call to Medvedev

Edited by ben00rs, 25 August 2010 - 07:09 PM.

[maxpower]

with a diamond studded noose. still don't think kovalchuk is really interested in the KHL, their season starts in a week.

seems Kovalchuk may have instigated the phone call to Medvedev himself. this is a serious, serious FWIW.