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New Kovy Update ("As the Kovy Turns")


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#11041 pattyelias

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:34 PM

lou has made a ton of terrible signings since the lockout. kovalchuk would be his best one, probably, and even though it isn't good, it still beats whatever else he'll come up with in the years to come.


tri, i respect you but the longer this kovalchuk saga has gone on the more you seemingly devalue him and distance yourself from the signing. whose team are you on?
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#11042 njdevsfn95

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:39 PM

it's obviously not a lou signing. still, lou signings haven't worked out so well, have they? if they come out of this with a stanley cup in the next 5 years, whatever happens after that is a freeroll.

i'm not sure what they'll do, i really have no idea. it seems that the devils addressed everything they had to. the media saying it will be rejected are dreger and no one else i've seen. chesnokov, burnside, and kypreos all think it will be accepted. now these three aren't exactly grantland rice, but they're not horrid sources.


where did Dreger say it would be rejected? His only comment on that status is the quote from the GM assumed to be Brian Burke.
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#11043 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:44 PM

TGfireandice

According to @RealKyper, Kovy deal numbers: 6/6/11/11.3/11.3/11.6/11.8/10/7/4/1/1/1/3/4. Total 15 years. $100 mil
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#11044 dejaentendu2101

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:45 PM

Breakdown:

2010-11: $6 million
2011-12: $6 million
2012-13: $11 million
2013-14: $11.3 million
2014-15: $11.3 million
2015-16: $11.6 million
2016-17: $11.8 million
2017-18: $10 million
2018-19: $7 million
2020-21: $4 million
2021-22: $1 million
2022-23: $1 million
2023-24: $1 million
2024-25: $3 million
2025-26: $4 million

Edited by dejaentendu2101, 31 August 2010 - 08:46 PM.

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#11045 maxpower

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:45 PM

per sportsnet, the contract is weird.

8/79, follow by a 2/11 and a 5/10.

last 7 years are 7,4,1,1,1,3,4.

the front end of the deal is actualy more abusive unless you think he will collect the 1's and not retire his ass back to Russia.
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#11046 Triumph

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:46 PM

tri, i respect you but the longer this kovalchuk saga has gone on the more you seemingly devalue him and distance yourself from the signing. whose team are you on?


i assume him is kovalchuk. look, i love watching kovalchuk play, he's one of the NHL's most gifted players. but the truth is, his territorial numbers were not good in atlanta, he overstays his shifts, he doesn't always backcheck, his forechecking skills leave something to be desired - everything about his game that isn't putting the puck in the net needs improvement. he's 27; it's unclear that these things will be improved.

furthermore, scoring forwards almost always have a decline around 32 or 33. so a 10 year kovalchuk contract could be disastrous. kovalchuk has had very few injuries, but you look at selanne, hull, jagr, most top scorers, they don't keep scoring at the same rate into their mid 30s. i'll go look later for scoring seasons over .5 goals per game after age 32 but it isn't pretty.

Edited by Triumph, 31 August 2010 - 08:47 PM.

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#11047 GoArmySports

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:56 PM

Why not just pay him 6 million every year?
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#11048 sundstrom

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:58 PM

here we go via TG twitter: http://twitter.com/TGfireandice

According to @RealKyper, Kovy deal numbers: 6/6/11/11.3/11.3/11.6/11.8/10/7/4/1/1/1/3/4. Total 15 years. $100 mil

i suppose if you make the 7 year a 4.5 and sprinkle the remaining 2.5 over those 1 years, you're home. those 1 years stick out like a sore thumb. sure the 3 and 4 at the end gussy it up but its all a way to say 10/90. i don't think any way of playing with the last $10MM over 5 can make this look sweater for the NHL.

Why not just pay him 6 million every year?


because kovalchuk would not accept it.
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20082719943.png
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“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#11049 Triumph

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:01 PM

you can't make the 7 year a 4.5 year, that violates the 100% rule. but if you shave just 400k from all the huge years, you can come up with the money that makes the end credible. lou and company know more than we do, they've been talking with the league, but it could certainly look better than it does.
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#11050 sundstrom

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:04 PM

you can't make the 7 year a 4.5 year, that violates the 100% rule. but if you shave just 400k from all the huge years, you can come up with the money that makes the end credible. lou and company know more than we do, they've been talking with the league, but it could certainly look better than it does.


yeah yeah - i know but you got my point - don't put 1's there and make it so obvious.

you make me work too hard with this sh!t. i've even started to let people off the hook for "would of".

Edited by sundstrom, 31 August 2010 - 09:06 PM.

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"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#11051 grcenter47

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:07 PM

yeah yeah - i know but you got my point - don't put 1's there and make it so obvious.

you make me work too hard with this sh!t. i've even started to let people off the hook for "would of".


:offtopic: This is off topic but I saw a guy in New York over the weekend with an old school Sundstrom Vancouver Canucks jersey :offtopic:

Edited by grcenter47, 31 August 2010 - 09:08 PM.

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#11052 jkrdevil

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:08 PM

yeah yeah - i know but you got my point - don't put 1's there and make it so obvious.

you make me work too hard with this sh!t. i've even starting to let people off the hook for "would of".


You shave a couple hundred off the big years and put them at the bottom you don't have to go through the charade of going down and back up, which just makes it obvious.

Still if it is a full no-move it might get through. In fact I think it probably is a full NMC or this would have been rejected straight away. Of course the NMC makes this an incredibly risky deal.
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#11053 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:09 PM

well more on topic, i have been seeing a lot of guys around the city wearing devils gear, no other teams but devils around here.
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#11054 Triumph

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:12 PM

You shave a couple hundred off the big years and put them at the bottom you don't have to go through the charade of going down and back up, which just makes it obvious.

Still if it is a full no-move it might get through. In fact I think it probably is a full NMC or this would have been rejected straight away. Of course the NMC makes this an incredibly risky deal.


no one has said what clauses it has but i still think it would be a complete disgrace if the NHL rejected a contract because it did not contain a no movement clause.
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#11055 Random Poster

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:13 PM

i assume him is kovalchuk. look, i love watching kovalchuk play, he's one of the NHL's most gifted players. but the truth is, his territorial numbers were not good in atlanta, he overstays his shifts, he doesn't always backcheck, his forechecking skills leave something to be desired - everything about his game that isn't putting the puck in the net needs improvement. he's 27; it's unclear that these things will be improved.


He's 27, he can be "reprogrammed". That's the great thing. People moaned and groaned about Mogilny when he was traded to the Devils that he was this and that and he was able to fit quite well and he was a "programmed" veteran. He's probably never been coached with a staff as he's about to have, either. Kovalchuk reminds me of the kid on the team with so much talent, the coaches just let him use it and win them games and it seems to have followed him to the NHL, especially being in Atlanta. Not like the Thrashers were going to keep him from doing what he does best to win, especially when they weren't good enough to.

Besides, this is the new NHL. To win the Cup you need elite talent. Do you want an elite goal scorer who is a threat every shift or do you want another gifted player reduced into a checking winger to fit into a system that no longer works in the NHL? With is talent and speed, his two-way play can be corrected enough to not turn him into a 20 goal scorer.

furthermore, scoring forwards almost always have a decline around 32 or 33. so a 10 year kovalchuk contract could be disastrous. kovalchuk has had very few injuries, but you look at selanne, hull, jagr, most top scorers, they don't keep scoring at the same rate into their mid 30s. i'll go look later for scoring seasons over .5 goals per game after age 32 but it isn't pretty.


Of course, players decline at certain ages. The three players you used as an example and compare them to their primes, what do you think they are going to do? Put up 70 goals/100 points at 35+ at the same rate as their younger "prime" years? However, those three players were still productive and in some cases turned back the clock. If Kovalchuk puts up Hull numbers at 36-39 or hits Selanne's goal mark, i'd be thrilled.

Jagr:

Year Age
2005-06 33 NYR 54 69 123
2006-07 34 NYR 30 66 96
2007-08 35 NYR 25 46 71

Selanne:

2005-06 35 ANA 40 50 90
2006-07 36 ANA 48 46 94

Hull:

2000-01 36 DAL 39 40 79
2001-02 37 DET 30 33 63
2002-03 38 DET 37 39 76
2003-04 39 DET 25 43 68
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#11056 ZeroGravityFat

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:19 PM

god dammit, i try to watch rescue me to keep my mind of this stupid sh!t and leary the a$$hole has to say nhlpa.
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#11057 Masked Fan

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:20 PM

not just me Masked Fan, but 4 other writers and reporters including TG had it in his article...

Well, a lotta wrong don't make it right. Posted Image


hahaha i wish they would of done that to me when i got laid off in late April... they hit me with the news right after lunch Posted Image

SCREW THAT! Let me know when I get there and send me home early for the day with pay!


It's just interesting that a contract (based off the little we know) that is better than at least 4 "under investigation" may not pass the NHL's new version of the CBA.

I like that "the NHL's new version of the CBA" What a buncha B.S. huh!?!?


I've been extremely bothered by the NHL's stance on this "Under Investigation" status it has pegged so many contracts with.

I read in the CBA, well, I'll just paste it here and say I think the NHL cannot call ANY back after 2 months from approving it since I think that would violate the highlighted part below.

11.6
(b) Subsequent Challenge and/or De-Registration of SPCs.

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 11.6, an approved and registered SPC may be subject to subsequent challenge and/or de-registration by the League: (i) in the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL, ...

I mean damn! even throwing them a few weeks as a bone to really pour over the details means the NHL SHOULD know about any circumvention details in any of those other contracts LONG AGO.

asses.


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#11058 Neutral Zone Trap

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:20 PM

i assume him is kovalchuk. look, i love watching kovalchuk play, he's one of the NHL's most gifted players. but the truth is, his territorial numbers were not good in atlanta, he overstays his shifts, he doesn't always backcheck, his forechecking skills leave something to be desired - everything about his game that isn't putting the puck in the net needs improvement. he's 27; it's unclear that these things will be improved.

furthermore, scoring forwards almost always have a decline around 32 or 33. so a 10 year kovalchuk contract could be disastrous. kovalchuk has had very few injuries, but you look at selanne, hull, jagr, most top scorers, they don't keep scoring at the same rate into their mid 30s. i'll go look later for scoring seasons over .5 goals per game after age 32 but it isn't pretty.

To the first paragraph. Playing in Atlanta is a completely different paradigm to playing in New Jersey. In New Jersey you are TOLD/TAUGHT to be defensibly responsible, otherwise, you are traded. Hence the reason why NJ makes the playoffs and Atl does not. It is very possible that his output (as far as points go) will drop, but his team will possibly (and most likely) be far more successful.

To the second paragraph. While those superstars may have diminished at certain points in their careers, taking into consideration age. You have to understand the parameters of variations. Could it have been because said player's skill was diminishing ? certainly, but you have to understand the quality of the players on his team, let alone the quality of the opposition. Kovalchuk has never played on a team with the skill it has now. (see Bourque, Ray*)

Tri, you are really great at two dimensional thinking, or rote, but you don't know anything about psychology, your posts prove it, empirically.
Not a criticism, just an observation.

A change of scenery can make the world of difference, just ask Marian Hossa et al.

*that series was rigged.
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#11059 HellOnICE

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:26 PM

You guys are way off base if you think a guy like Kovalchuk can be reprogrammed to anything other - than MAYBE taking shorter shifts. You're going to threaten a 15/100mil player with a trade if they don't back check hard enough. That's not what you're paying for.
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#11060 threestars

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 09:29 PM

I read in the CBA, well, I'll just paste it here and say I think the NHL cannot call ANY back after 2 months from approving it since I think that would violate the highlighted part below.

11.6
(b) Subsequent Challenge and/or De-Registration of SPCs.

Notwithstanding anything to the contrary in this Section 11.6, an approved and registered SPC may be subject to subsequent challenge and/or de-registration by the League: (i) in the case of a Circumvention relating to either the Club Upper Limit or the Maximum Player Salary, within sixty (60) days from the date upon which the facts of the Circumvention became known or reasonably should have been known to the NHL, ...

I mean damn! even throwing them a few weeks as a bone to really pour over the details means the NHL SHOULD know about any circumvention details in any of those other contracts LONG AGO.

asses.


That implies to me "60 days from learning of possible circumvention" not "60 days from contract being approved". I So basically they can call back any of the previously named contracts as long as it is done within 60 days of identifying a possible circumvention issue. Which is probably why the named contracts have been named...they are covering their arses.
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