12374 replies to this topic

[Triumph]

That's a very, very loose definition of "contender". By your own admission, for a fair number of those years "we were not a very good team".

indeed - the devils probably should have missed the playoffs in 08 - but ilya's point still stands. he's going to a team that already makes the playoffs every year, in contrast to his previous team. the addition of ilya himself should put them over the top.

Edited by Triumph, 06 September 2010 - 08:56 AM.

[ZeroGravityFat]

what we have been lacking since the 04 is a defender that can take care of the business in playoffs and now we have the a-train to shut down so i'm guessing this year is going to be a longer playoff run.

[Amberite]

what we have been lacking since the 04 is a defender that can take care of the business in playoffs and now we have the a-train to shut down so i'm guessing this year is going to be a longer playoff run.

Agreed on Volchenkov. Everyone points to the loss of Martin, but noone says much about Volchenkov. He is a beast and in my eyes he is a much more valuable part of a cup winning team than Martin can be. In almost every game we've played the Senators over the last few years, Volchenkov made an impact to the point where I was actively aware of him throughout the game. I don't think any other team can consistently say that about Martin when playing us.

Edited by Amberite, 06 September 2010 - 11:37 AM.

[PattyElias26]

VIA Twitter

plysenkov
"What is a contract? This is the start point. I play in NHL not because of the contract. But I try to win the Cup", - Kovalchuk said #devils

plysenkov
Just spoke with Kovalchuk. Tomorrow a big interview in the "Sovietsky sport". A few moments ... He returned Sept. 12 in the U.S.. #devils

plysenkov
He's going to play for "New Jersey" all 15 years (not 10). And does not exclude that can play in KHL (if lockout in NHL).

[HellOnICE]

I don't think you can really compare Martin and Volchenkov they play completely two different games. I think very highly of Martin, and we need a guy with his skills - the same way we needed a guy with Volchenkov's skills. If there had been a way to keep both - would have been tremendous. We filled one hole, but we did open up another letting Martin go.

Let's only hope before the playoffs we can figure that out, because I think this team is pretty close, but we need a puck moving defenseman. Hard to get. But ya never know.

[grcenter47]

VIA Twitter

plysenkov
"What is a contract? This is the start point. I play in NHL not because of the contract. But I try to win the Cup", - Kovalchuk said #devils

plysenkov
Just spoke with Kovalchuk. Tomorrow a big interview in the "Sovietsky sport". A few moments ... He returned Sept. 12 in the U.S.. #devils

plysenkov
He's going to play for "New Jersey" all 15 years (not 10). And does not exclude that can play in KHL (if lockout in NHL).

I like this quote too

[Triumph]

I don't think you can really compare Martin and Volchenkov they play completely two different games. I think very highly of Martin, and we need a guy with his skills - the same way we needed a guy with Volchenkov's skills. If there had been a way to keep both - would have been tremendous. We filled one hole, but we did open up another letting Martin go.

Let's only hope before the playoffs we can figure that out, because I think this team is pretty close, but we need a puck moving defenseman. Hard to get. But ya never know.

while i obviously agree about martin, people are still unable to tell me what a puck moving defenseman is. i haven't seen that much of tallinder, but i don't see why he can't replicate what martin does in the defensive zone.

[Prucenterrules]

I like this quote too

+1. Hopefully this season.

[Middlesex]

this has to be the biggest bandwith eater ever, and its all worth it, Kovyyyyy ftw!

Edited by Middlesex, 06 September 2010 - 12:07 PM.

[Random Poster]

while i obviously agree about martin, people are still unable to tell me what a puck moving defenseman is. i haven't seen that much of tallinder, but i don't see why he can't replicate what martin does in the defensive zone.

Pretty much explains itself. What's not to understand?

A puck moving defensemen can make a good first pass out of the defensive zone feeding it to the forwards moving out, starting a rush up the ice or hit players in stride breaking up ice from his own defensive end (especially since there's no two line pass rule and the Devils have players like Parise and Kovalchuk who this fits). He can also move the puck himself out of his zone by skating it out and joining the attack up ice. Hence, "puck moving".

Tallinder is not Paul Martin in terms of the above, even though Martin never seemed to use that skill set often enough (the goal on Retro Night is an example of what Martin can do, but never did/tried enough). Tallinder, IMO, is a smarter player who will probably make less mistakes with the puck clearing it and making passes in his own zone and he'll make a good first pass out. If he's signed to jump start rushes out of the zone or to join the play, this will be a total bust.

Edited by SJP20, 06 September 2010 - 12:39 PM.

[HellOnICE]

Tri, I'm not concerned about the defensive zone too much as I am about the offensive zone. We need a defender who's adept at creating offense in the zone, whether it be from the point or jumping up in the play when we need the extra bump.

[Amberite]

Martin's offensive capabilities are quite overrated. He gets played 24-25min per night and is specifically relied upon and given every opportunity to produce offense (PP time, etc). Even with that, he can only be relied upon to produce ~30 points per season. So let's be realistic here - Martin is not some offensive juggernaut. I believe Greene can continue to produce offensively, and if Urbom pans out, he has some pretty high offensive upside as well.

On the other hand, Volchenkov's ability to block shots and lay some pounding hits on the opposing team's top players are leagues beyond anything Martin contributes on the defensive side of things. Coupled with Tallinder's respectable, if not great, offensive capabilities, and our defense is much improved.

[TheMazz]

Tri, I'm not concerned about the defensive zone too much as I am about the offensive zone. We need a defender who's adept at creating offense in the zone, whether it be from the point or jumping up in the play when we need the extra bump.

Bergeron?

[Daniel]

We filled one hole, but we did open up another letting Martin go.

Martin didn't want to stay, so he wasn't really let go.

[msweet]

I only saw some twitter tidbits so here is the whole Kovy Interview (a fitting end to this thread)

Do you feel that maybe the Players Association didn't mount a good enough defense for you? <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

Not at all. Why? They presented their case entirely; they said everything they had to say. But ultimately it was up to the arbitrator who made a decision. There's nothing criminal in this.

Throughout this summer did you ever get a feeling that you were being pushed out of the NHL? <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

Well, the whole process did take a very long time. But as I mentioned, it was not a simple contract, but was rather complex. It wasn't a contract you sign in one day. That's why it took a long time to mutually agree on all sticking points. And no, I didn't have a feeling that the league didn't want me. Everyone understood that this is business and there is can be absolutely nothing personal about it.

At the same time your contract was taken hostage, so to speak, and used to amend the existing CBA. As if there was a show trial. <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

It would be a show trial if I had signed a contract the league wanted me to sign. But it was not the case. I signed a contract that satisfied me and the team first and foremost. I actually think that the result of it all should positively affect any future contract negotiations.

How interested are you now in getting more involved with the Players Association and being a more active participant? <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

We have a good union and every player can voice their opinion and say anything they want. When the time comes for me to have a say, I certainly will.

It was difficult to imagine, but still at one point more and more people started believing that if the process dragged on any longer you would have to go to the KHL. Did you start thinking about it at any time? <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

Not really, no. I did think a bit about a situation that would be acceptable to me here [in Russia]. But I am just happy about the final outcome.

Did you at any point regret not accepting Atlanta's $101 million offer? <br style="line-height: 1.22em; ">

No. I am a kind of person who never looks back. I only look to the future. There is no point feeling sorry for the past. You have to live for today and look forward to what's ahead of you. I will now play for a team that is always a contender for the Stanley Cup. It's something that I always wanted.

http://sports.yahoo....?urn=nhl-267491

[ZeroGravityFat]

biggest plus for us with volchenkov is that he blocks cross ice passes. you can see it against the pens when crosby tries to pass to malkin for an easy tap in. Brodeur is not as fast going side to side and a-train is going to help greatly with stopping those easy goals for us.

[Triumph]

Pretty much explains itself. What's not to understand?

A puck moving defensemen can make a good first pass out of the defensive zone feeding it to the forwards moving out, starting a rush up the ice or hit players in stride breaking up ice from his own defensive end (especially since there's no two line pass rule and the Devils have players like Parise and Kovalchuk who this fits). He can also move the puck himself out of his zone by skating it out and joining the attack up ice. Hence, "puck moving".

Tallinder is not Paul Martin in terms of the above, even though Martin never seemed to use that skill set often enough (the goal on Retro Night is an example of what Martin can do, but never did/tried enough). Tallinder, IMO, is a smarter player who will probably make less mistakes with the puck clearing it and making passes in his own zone and he'll make a good first pass out. If he's signed to jump start rushes out of the zone or to join the play, this will be a total bust.

because i think the concept is overrated, especially with someone like kaberle, who advanced stats don't think is really anything better than average at even strength. i shouldn't've been so coy in pretending ignorance about the phrase, but i hate the concept. people like lidstrom get lumped in with jokers like gonchar - it's not descriptive enough for me. anyway.

martin was an excellent defender at even strength, but it's not because of his ability to jump into the play - he didn't do it often enough because he wasn't good enough at it. i'd quibble w/ the goal on retro night since it was the result of A: a bad line change and B: poor goaltending but i'll agree that it's an aggressive chance that martin rarely takes. that's why lou considers tallinder a martin replacement - because martin really wasn't on the puck in the neutral zone or jump starting rushes all that often.

Tri, I'm not concerned about the defensive zone too much as I am about the offensive zone. We need a defender who's adept at creating offense in the zone, whether it be from the point or jumping up in the play when we need the extra bump.

that's fair. i think the devils should do what they did in 03 - match up kovalchuk with one of taormina/eckford/corrente and try to start them against weak competition (i don't think this last part worked wrt elias/gomez/marshall in 03, but the point still stands). corrente isn't a 'puck moving defenseman' but he's got some offensive chops and at least the game i saw him at the rock, he was not afraid to start rushes out of his own zone.

Martin's offensive capabilities are quite overrated. He gets played 24-25min per night and is specifically relied upon and given every opportunity to produce offense (PP time, etc). Even with that, he can only be relied upon to produce ~30 points per season. So let's be realistic here - Martin is not some offensive juggernaut. I believe Greene can continue to produce offensively, and if Urbom pans out, he has some pretty high offensive upside as well.

On the other hand, Volchenkov's ability to block shots and lay some pounding hits on the opposing team's top players are leagues beyond anything Martin contributes on the defensive side of things. Coupled with Tallinder's respectable, if not great, offensive capabilities, and our defense is much improved.

i don't think urbom has high offensive upside, but that's neither here nor there. martin wasn't very good on the power play.

when i think of offense, now i think of the ability to control territory. this was where martin was excellent, even if his scoring stats never looked great. i think tallinder is a step down but he has similar abilities. volchenkov will probably do well if he's on the ice a lot w/ zajac and parise.

[Neb00rs]

Agreed on Volchenkov. Everyone points to the loss of Martin, but noone says much about Volchenkov. He is a beast and in my eyes he is a much more valuable part of a cup winning team than Martin can be. In almost every game we've played the Senators over the last few years, Volchenkov made an impact to the point where I was actively aware of him throughout the game. I don't think any other team can consistently say that about Martin when playing us.

Martin is soft, Volchenkov is an animal - no further analysis needed - but I agree with your post.

Martin's offensive capabilities are quite overrated. He gets played 24-25min per night and is specifically relied upon and given every opportunity to produce offense (PP time, etc). Even with that, he can only be relied upon to produce ~30 points per season. So let's be realistic here - Martin is not some offensive juggernaut. I believe Greene can continue to produce offensively, and if Urbom pans out, he has some pretty high offensive upside as well.

On the other hand, Volchenkov's ability to block shots and lay some pounding hits on the opposing team's top players are leagues beyond anything Martin contributes on the defensive side of things. Coupled with Tallinder's respectable, if not great, offensive capabilities, and our defense is much improved.

Martin has that good first pass but everything else for me offensively is just eh, so I gotta agree he is overrated - but not much because I don't know what the Pens are expecting out of him offensively besides to pass the puck up the ice quick and accurately.

Greene will continue to play on the PP if MacLean knows what he is doing. I don't know if Urbom has pretty high offensive upside - or any more than Tallinder at any rate.

Martin is a good (to use a football term) man to man coverage D-man - It's not easy to move the puck past him. If your moving in on Martin you have to have something up your sleeve. But Volchenkov will change the game philosophically. The opposing teams will know they can't breeze into the zone anymore with A-Train waiting for them. In addition, the blocked shots are something Martin never offered us - it's part of being soft. The only taste we really ever got of a shot blocker was Matvichuk - and he was no monster in that department.

This defense is much improved from 09-10 - how good they are in general however, is still yet to be seen.

Edited by ben00rs, 06 September 2010 - 02:22 PM.

[Neb00rs]

when i think of offense, now i think of the ability to control territory. this was where martin was excellent, even if his scoring stats never looked great. i think tallinder is a step down but he has similar abilities. volchenkov will probably do well if he's on the ice a lot w/ zajac and parise.

I agree. but I think an important question to ask is whether Martin controls territory with more domination in the offensive zone than Volchenkov does in the defensive zone. For me, Volchenkov wins by a mile. So IMO all Tallinder needs to do is be 85 percent as good in the offensive zone in "controlling territory" as Martin was and this defense will be much improved without seeing much of an offensive drop.

[Prucenterrules]

I can't wait to see Volchenkov rock somebody.