[ThreeCups]

Pepperkorn, on 30 July 2010 - 09:10 AM, said:

Hmeh -- and Stevens won the COnn Smythe... got anything else? Anything specific? That game changing save?

So what the Stevens won the CS? Marty played amazing in the series, and without him we easily could have lost it...How about coming up big in Game 6 with some saves before Arnott buried it? You are discrediting Marty entirely it seems. Without him, we do not win the Cups...bottom line....and we probably would not have without Stevens as well, but the Devs still would have had a chance without him...

[jim777]

I would agree that if we're talking players only, it's one of those two If not, then it's Lou by a landslide.

[Pepperkorn]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 09:16 AM, said:

So what the Stevens won the CS? Marty played amazing in the series, and without him we easily could have lost it...How about coming up big in Game 6 with some saves before Arnott buried it? You are discrediting Marty entirely it seems. Without him, we do not win the Cups...bottom line....and we probably would not have without Stevens as well, but the Devs still would have had a chance without him...

*PK responds in high mocking teenage boy voice: You seem to be discrediting an entire team based on one series in the playoffs

Without Brodeur the team still has a chance to win the Cup in 2000 -- please...

[Devilsfan118]

Oh man...tough question...

Stevens. Set the tone for the organization's future. Marty was absolutely crucial to the devils' success...but without stevens I don't see this orgaization developing the winning mentality it has now.

Nor would Marty have his records (yet) imo.

[ThreeCups]

Pepperkorn, on 30 July 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

*PK responds in high mocking teenage boy voice: You seem to be discrediting an entire team based on one series in the playoffs

Without Brodeur the team still has a chance to win the Cup in 2000 -- please...

I am not discrediting anyone involved. But if I had to pick either Marty or Stevens to not play for that playoff run, I am picking Stevens to sit, just because our depth at D at the time. I am not convinced that another goaltender on that team would have delivered Cup #2...

[DaneykoIsGod]

I think it was the perfect storm of Lou, Stevens, Brodeur and Lemaire.

Lou brought in the right players. Lemaire got them to buy into the system (and got Stevens to drastically change his game). Stevens and Brodeur complimented each other.

Without any of these parts, I don't think the team has the success it's had.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I say Stevens

Brodeur was a rock but Stevens was a game changer. A once every 20 years type player. Actually I'm still looking for a defenseman in today's game who can compare to him, Pronger's the only one close. Maybe he's really a once in a lifetime player.

[ben00rs]

Pepperkorn, on 30 July 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

*PK responds in high mocking teenage boy voice: You seem to be discrediting an entire team based on one series in the playoffs

Without Brodeur the team still has a chance to win the Cup in 2000 -- please...

absolutely. This is not debatable.

DaneykoIsGod, on 30 July 2010 - 11:17 AM, said:

I think it was the perfect storm of Lou, Stevens, Brodeur and Lemaire.

Lou brought in the right players. Lemaire got them to buy into the system (and got Stevens to drastically change his game). Stevens and Brodeur complimented each other.

Without any of these parts, I don't think the team has the success it's had.

What a PC answer

NO but seriously, I think DM had the biggest impact in Devils history when he created this site.

[Pepperkorn]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 10:43 AM, said:

I am not discrediting anyone involved. But if I had to pick either Marty or Stevens to not play for that playoff run, I am picking Stevens to sit, just because our depth at D at the time. I am not convinced that another goaltender on that team would have delivered Cup #2...

well.

OK then.

[ben00rs]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 10:43 AM, said:

I am not discrediting anyone involved. But if I had to pick either Marty or Stevens to not play for that playoff run, I am picking Stevens to sit, just because our depth at D at the time. I am not convinced that another goaltender on that team would have delivered Cup #2...

I don't mean to be a dick but were you watching Devils games when Stevens played?

[ThreeCups]

ben00rs, on 30 July 2010 - 12:47 PM, said:

I don't mean to be a dick but were you watching Devils games when Stevens played?

No I just read alot about him. Was he good? I heard he made it into the Hall of Fame. He must have been pretty good. I obviously watched the games, but if you remove Stevens from the lineup we still had Dano, White, Niedermayer, Rafalski. Not a bad D unit by any means....

[DevsMan84]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 02:08 PM, said:

No I just read alot about him. Was he good? I heard he made it into the Hall of Fame. He must have been pretty good. I obviously watched the games, but if you remove Stevens from the lineup we still had Dano, White, Niedermayer, Rafalski. Not a bad D unit by any means....

Since 2004, we have done terrible during the playoffs. When Marty went down in 08-09 season, Clemmensen came in and didn't miss a beat. When Marty came back, we lost again in the first round. Looks like Marty is replaceable while Stevens is not.

[ThreeCups]

DevsMan84, on 30 July 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

Since 2004, we have done terrible during the playoffs. When Marty went down in 08-09 season, Clemmensen came in and didn't miss a beat. When Marty came back, we lost again in the first round. Looks like Marty is replaceable while Stevens is not.

I am sick of the Clemmensen argument. So if we had him from 95-03 do you REALLY believe we would have went to the Finals 4 times and won 3 Cups?

This post has been edited by ThreeCups: 30 July 2010 - 02:20 PM

[grcenter47]

I think the reason this question is tough is because both Scott Stevens and Martin Brodeur were the best in their position during their playing careers. I still think it makes an interesting debate

[DevsMan84]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 03:19 PM, said:

I am sick of the Clemmensen argument. So if we had him from 95-03 do you REALLY believe we would have went to the Finals 4 times and won 3 Cups?

Honestly, yes. Remmeber when the Devils beat the Maple Leafs in Game 6 of the 2000 Stanley cup playoffs? The LEafs only managed 6 shots the entire game. There are many other games that the Devils held the opposition to less than 20 shots. Brodeur has not had to be really spectacular too often.

[ThreeCups]

DevsMan84, on 30 July 2010 - 03:31 PM, said:

Honestly, yes. Remmeber when the Devils beat the Maple Leafs in Game 6 of the 2000 Stanley cup playoffs? The LEafs only managed 6 shots the entire game. There are many other games that the Devils held the opposition to less than 20 shots. Brodeur has not had to be really spectacular too often.

So basically you are saying any average NHL goalie during that time would have won us the 3 Cups? I am not buying it, not at all. Yes the Devils did hold the Leafs to 6 shots in a game, but that was an anomaly. While the Devils held the opposition to a limited amount of shots, many times Marty would need to make a few beauties to keep us in a game or preserve a lead. To tell me that Brodeur was a passenger on those Championship teams is crazy.

[DevsMan84]

ThreeCups, on 30 July 2010 - 03:45 PM, said:

So basically you are saying any average NHL goalie during that time would have won us the 3 Cups? I am not buying it, not at all. Yes the Devils did hold the Leafs to 6 shots in a game, but that was an anomaly. While the Devils held the opposition to a limited amount of shots, many times Marty would need to make a few beauties to keep us in a game or preserve a lead. To tell me that Brodeur was a passenger on those Championship teams is crazy.

I am saying he was a passenger, but he was def not the reason for those 3 cups. He had maybe 1 or 2 really good series during those runs, but that's about it. Even the worst goalies can make a few beauties to keep their team in the game.

[ClarkyDano23]

Vic Rattlehead18, on 29 July 2010 - 07:29 PM, said:

Lyle Odelein

[grcenter47]

ClarkyDano23, on 30 July 2010 - 03:57 PM, said:

UGH dont remind me of that haha

[Joe B]

While I was a Stevens fan, you can't compare a defensman to a goalie. It may be the most important minutes, but a defensman is only on the ice just over a 1/3 of the time. Goalies can steal games(and Marty did steal games), I'm sorry but a defensman can't. I'll grant that Stevens set the tone with devestating hits and put fear into opponents(but so did the crash line). Stevens is among the best captains in my lifetime.

Especially a goalie who has had rules made to counter his skill. Part of the reason the Devils system works was the inability for a team to dump the puck in unless it was done correctly. Marty makes the D better which in turn makes Marty better. Setting all time records while only playing for one franchise will have a bigger impact historically as well.




I still think the answer to the question is.

1 Dr. McMullen, without him there are no NJ Devils.
2. LL
3. Lemaire / Larry. that whole Montreal connection. What was the line. In the 70's the habs didn't call it the trap, they just called it defense.
4. Marty
5. Stevens
6. Johnny Mac, he seemed to score every big goal in franchise history.
7. Scott Nieds, one of the best all around defensman I've ever seen. I feel lucky that I was able to watch him play. The reason I feel old is becasue of the fact that I remeber the entire span of his career including the Kurvers trade that got the high draft pick(was the first or second year of out season tickets)

probably Elias then Dano next. Maybe Sean Burke to round out the top 10, one hell of a run but too short of a career with the franchise.


not enough early devils I agree, and I should probably have put 'role player' in the list, there have been so many good soldiers in the franchise that make this team gel. dougie brown, cohnacher, boshman, pando, brylin, on and on and on.

I'm just babbeling at this point(I know, at this point? try since 2002(why 2002, no idea, just sounds funny to me)) so I will stop. 5pm yet?

Joe
just my opinion.