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Elias on Kovalchuk


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#81 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 09:51 AM

Calling him out is a double-edged sword. It might motivate Kovy to get his head into the game but it also adds to what I can surmise is growing dischord in the locker room. I have the distinct feeling that some players weren'ttoo happy with the Kovalchuk signing; how it's been detrimental to the cap, changed the Devils philosophy and created a lot of unwanted headaches in the off season.
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#82 MantaRay

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:01 AM

Calling him out is a double-edged sword. It might motivate Kovy to get his head into the game but it also adds to what I can surmise is growing dischord in the locker room. I have the distinct feeling that some players weren'ttoo happy with the Kovalchuk signing; how it's been detrimental to the cap, changed the Devils philosophy and created a lot of unwanted headaches in the off season.



I think your dead on. You can see it in the body language of most of the players who were sold on the team concept.

This signing was more Sather than Lamoriello.
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#83 H.E. Pennypacker

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:10 AM

Which player would you take right now Beetlebum?

A generational talent in his prime or a very good player who is aging and is on a contract well above his current worth?

Sutter's a racist eh? I guess someone must have forgotten to tell him the Iginla's not white so he take his "C" as well... he's gotten away with murder for 2 years now.


i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.
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#84 DevilinLA

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:48 AM

i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.

More proof of what too much weed does to the brain.
Absurd. Crosby is 5 times the gamechanger that Elias is handsdown and I hate the crybaby.
Elias needs significant help to make things happen (i.e. production w/Arnott/Gomez vs. Zubrus/Rolston) Crosby has yet to have a true prime winger and is still a major force by himself.
I like Elias, just not at the pricetag.
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#85 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 11:57 AM

i love how you think you are outing me.

but to get to your question game on the line 2 - 2 in the 3rd i 'd take elias. just like i would take claude lemieux over mario lemieux.


Claude Lemieux over, when healthy, quite possibly the most dominating player in hockey history.
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#86 H.E. Pennypacker

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 12:45 PM

More proof of what too much weed does to the brain.
Absurd. Crosby is 5 times the gamechanger that Elias is handsdown and I hate the crybaby.
Elias needs significant help to make things happen (i.e. production w/Arnott/Gomez vs. Zubrus/Rolston) Crosby has yet to have a true prime winger and is still a major force by himself.
I like Elias, just not at the pricetag.



yeah man i smoked pot why do you have a problem with that; how does that concern you? are you one of those people that live in california and go to that gigantic fraud of a church known as the crystal cathedral

again you changed the scope of the argument. i mentioned game winning goals and you go on about the complete package. clearly crosby is the better player ,but that doesn't change the fact there are certain things called intangibles, and that some players handle pressure better.

Edited by H.E. Pennypacker, 09 November 2010 - 12:48 PM.

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#87 Devils731

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:13 PM

:lol: Ya, Crosby doesn't have anything to suggest he wins Cups, Gold Medals, or scores big goals.

Edited by Devils731, 09 November 2010 - 01:13 PM.

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#88 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 01:43 PM

Crosby sucks! But he does have Bettman, the NHL and media behind him so he rules!!!!!!! At least that's what the experts say.
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#89 CRASHER

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:08 PM

:lol: Ya, Crosby doesn't have anything to suggest he wins Cups, Gold Medals, or scores big goals.


They never happened, they were just commercials made by Nike to get us to buy his crap :P
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#90 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:22 PM

The thing with Kovy and me is that I find it amusing that we consider him a huge gamble. We knew what we were getting: a guy who can score 40-50 goals every year and put up 80-100 points a season while having a large body and never using it to his advantage and being terrible on the defensive side of the puck. For some reason, and I think this has been mentioned before, we are trying to get him to play within the Devils system, and it is clearly not working. To compare him to Ovechkin or Crosby is silly, as they are a step above him and are elite superstars. We knew what we were getting and it is silly to think he will just change overnight, or even at all.
I do like Kovalchuk, but he is to me another player on our team. He is the sniper, and this is all. He is not a checker, grinder, or playmaker so we should stop thinking he can be any or all of these. That play he did on the SHG in the Ranger game shows he clearly cannot handle the defensive side of the game. He will always be a liability in that case, but he can also put up large numbers for us. It is still early into his contract, so I say just sit and wait and see.

As for Elias, this pains me to say this since he is one of my favorite all-time devils, but he is clearly over the hill. That 08-09 season was probably the last great season we will see from him. The injuries and age mixed with the fact he needs a creative winger or playmaking center with him only adds to the fustration. The biggest thing of all is his price tag and his no-movement clause, which makes him nearly impossible to trade him. Yeah someone said that we should be loyal to our players, but should we be loyal to the fact where it is hurting the rest of the team? Like any business, it is all about results.

Plus, if you want to rag on players, clearly more players deserve it this year. Clarkson, Langs, and White have not lived up to expectations and each time on the ice, I at this point pray a goal doesn't go against us.
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#91 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:24 PM

DevsMan, I agree with you on Clarkson and Langs(although Langs has shown signs of life lately) but I feel comfortable saying that if White were playing last Friday we wouldn't have given up 3 goals.
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#92 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:32 PM

DevsMan, I agree with you on Clarkson and Langs(although Langs has shown signs of life lately) but I feel comfortable saying that if White were playing last Friday we wouldn't have given up 3 goals.



Eh I disagree. I would say it was more of a vet missing than White in particular missing. Yeah we got Volchenkov back, but it was his first game back. Still say we should have signed Motts.
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#93 DevilinLA

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:35 PM

yeah man i smoked pot why do you have a problem with that; how does that concern you? are you one of those people that live in california and go to that gigantic fraud of a church known as the crystal cathedral

again you changed the scope of the argument. i mentioned game winning goals and you go on about the complete package. clearly crosby is the better player ,but that doesn't change the fact there are certain things called intangibles, and that some players handle pressure better.

I have never stepped foot in the Crystal Cathedral.
I'm not the one that keeps changing the argument....
I'm not willing to pay $6M for "intangibles". I hate this Elias bias.
When another player is brought up for lack of production his salary is brought into question vs. his production.
With Patrick Elias every excuse in the book comes out:
1.) Slow Start
2.) Doesn't have a playmaking Center
3) Not enough talent to work with him
4.) Leadership
5.) "Intangibles"
6.) Nostalgia Train
7.) Hurt or injured

For $6M the guy has to produce, not give a peppy speech in the locker room, tap another player on the but, or handle the media buzz, or boost morale, or be a lucky charm, or increase positive mojo flow - or whatever.
Production. Period. In 2010-2011. Now.

The math of the cap clearly dictates that someone making that much of the cap NEEDS to consistently produce - otherwise this team becomes nothing more than some museum/homage of past glory.

$6M for Intangibles is the same logic that got Clarkson overpaid - By that same logic perhaps someone will want to buy my IPHONE at double the market value because I claim it has "intangibles".

Its an emotional attachment fair and simple with little thought to the future. 30 of 30 team GM's take Crosby and never look back, or trade even for any player not named AO, Backstrom, or maybe Doughty.
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#94 DevsMan84

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:43 PM

I have never stepped foot in the Crystal Cathedral.
I'm not the one that keeps changing the argument....
I'm not willing to pay $6M for "intangibles". I hate this Elias bias.
When another player is brought up for lack of production his salary is brought into question vs. his production.
With Patrick Elias every excuse in the book comes out:
1.) Slow Start
2.) Doesn't have a playmaking Center
3) Not enough talent to work with him
4.) Leadership
5.) "Intangibles"
6.) Nostalgia Train
7.) Hurt or injured

For $6M the guy has to produce, not give a peppy speech in the locker room, tap another player on the but, or handle the media buzz, or boost morale, or be a lucky charm, or increase positive mojo flow - or whatever.
Production. Period. In 2010-2011. Now.

The math of the cap clearly dictates that someone making that much of the cap NEEDS to consistently produce - otherwise this team becomes nothing more than some museum/homage of past glory.

$6M for Intangibles is the same logic that got Clarkson overpaid - By that same logic perhaps someone will want to buy my IPHONE at double the market value because I claim it has "intangibles".

Its an emotional attachment fair and simple with little thought to the future. 30 of 30 team GM's take Crosby and never look back, or trade even for any player not named AO, Backstrom, or maybe Doughty.



Could not agree more, especially with the nostalgia department. Also, where is this that he is a leader? When? I know he had the C for a while, but that was taken away and has since had the A. What leadership qualities has he brought other than played more games than anyone else currently for the Devils except Brodeur? Plus after meeting him in person more than once, he doesn't seem the type to give speeches in the locker room. Again, he is one of my fav all-time devils, but there comes a time to let go and move on.
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#95 DevilinLA

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 03:50 PM

Could not agree more, especially with the nostalgia department. Also, where is this that he is a leader? When? I know he had the C for a while, but that was taken away and has since had the A. What leadership qualities has he brought other than played more games than anyone else currently for the Devils except Brodeur? Plus after meeting him in person more than once, he doesn't seem the type to give speeches in the locker room. Again, he is one of my fav all-time devils, but there comes a time to let go and move on.

Apparently when you wear the "A" you bear none of the responsibilities for crushing losses like NYR 07-8, or CAR 08-09, PHI 09-10 (all the Captain's fault)

.......yet.........

......... You are still viewed as being a strong leader and voice on the team with "intangible leadership qualities".

What a convenient paradox.

Jaime is the goat, Elias is the silent hero.

I like him too, but, its the sainthood he is granted by some of the fanbase that irritates me relative to his responsibility for production that his $6M salary dictates relative to the cap.

Edited by DevilinLA, 09 November 2010 - 03:51 PM.

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#96 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:01 PM

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.
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#97 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:21 PM

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.


Gotta agree. Snipers are like pitchers in baseball. They may have their pitching game down but just because they play baseball doesn't mean they can hit.
Kovy has been developed as an offensive player. Guys like Ovechkin and Crosby, who can play d and put up numbers, are few and far between. You're asking Kovy to come in and automatically start becoming a defensive stalwart when he's probably been groomed as an offensive stalwart only since he was a teenager.
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#98 Colorado Rockies 1976

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:24 PM

Lets see how good Kovalchuk is in year 2. I actually think by the start of the third season he will at least be average defensively to go with his elite offense.


Elite offense...what elite offense? We haven't seen it since he got here.

He wasn't signed to this kind of coin to see what he could do next year and beyond. He was paid to produce RIGHT NOW. Everything that's happened to this point hasn't been all his fault, but he's as culpable as anyone, and he hasn't done a thing to help.
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#99 CarpathianForest

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 04:28 PM

Perhaps Johnny Mac should stop juggling lines so much. I'm sure that would help. Keep Langs Zajac Kovy together, then perhaps noodle a bit with the other three lines until you find a match.
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#100 Jerrydevil

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Posted 09 November 2010 - 05:21 PM

Jaime is the goat, Elias is the silent hero.


¿Quien es Jaime, señor? :D
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