63 replies to this topic

[Pepperkorn]

At this time last year we were 22-7 what a difference a year makes.

That's my whole point - and I totally agree with Chimaira -- all this stuff was hidden in the recesses of pasting together a faux winning season. I do not enjoy watching a team that plays to finish number one in the standings - the same way I hate stats. I love HOCKEY. I want a team to play hockey or try, really work it and have fun - that's what's fun for me. I dont like coasting on finesse and I dont like grinding to the point of not playing. that is NOT the Devils system and all this New NHL talk leads me to believe people DO NOT understand what the system is. All this Lemaire is Old NHL and we need Kovy for New NHL... what is that? There is only hockey.

That is my other point Carpfor. People say "System" but all that is is the true game of hockey - for the Lou Lamoriello's Devils that's what the System is. It's not trickery or finesse or even winning at all costs. It's a respect for the game bred out of love for it a very basic clean game of hockey - All Stevens is is a nice tidy thinker. He's neat as a fvcking pin. he cannot TOLERATE clutter - it's upsetting to him on a level --- it's just confusing and the easiest course of action is to clean it all up -- done. OK now -- the team can play hockey, happy now? That was his strong suit to be perfectly honest. He was just lucky he had the talent to make it happen. The motivation I personally think was the total intolerance for mess. Just you can see how he notices everything and while nothing is honestly that big a deal everything irritates him at first take. He judges just instantaneously it seems. then he pulls back and takes fairness etc into account - but hockey is so fast it's kind of too late -he;s already cleaned up the place. ANYHOW... whatever... you dont need big hits, sniping shots -- you just need guys who MUST play hockey and get irritated when someone gets in the way pf that -- and I guess sometimes it's your own teammates and... well - you do something about that. it's selfish kind of and I guess it looks like leadership and it's hard to change your -- I dont know uncivil habits your personality issues when they work to your advantage. ANYHOW...

No one has that OCD kind of thing and I dont think you can look for just that... so... whatever

Sometimes you can't see that in daily play -that people are just playing good clean hockey - in stats, in locker room antics, and sometimes you CAN. The things people hold up here - like win/loss, score sheets, hits, SOGs - even pics snapped in limos -- these are hints. And sometimes the System of Personality can get you a Cup - it sucks but it works too.

Manta and I agree that when your team hires a sniper, you think that's not the System. but Manta can't get beyond the finesse and see Kovalchuk is a lover of hockey. He can hold up lots of reasons he "knows" Kovalchuk loves money only. but that doesn't fly with me. He wouldn't choke like this is it was about the money. this is not a player refusing to show up it's a guy who is lost. who SHOULD be because he's not sure of what clean simple hockey is -- it's not easy to see especially when people rely on you to only provide finesse. I really like Kovalchuk. He's a true lover of hockey and people need to accept that fact. He needs to remember that fact.... but that's neither here nor there at this point. With the minimal coaching (which I see the point on Chim) Kovalchuk is just lost -- he didn't come here for that -- and NO he didn't come for the money. if he did it woudl be situation normal and he'd be scoring mid-high levels and being all Mogilny.

yeah well so... soo... yeah.

[MantaRay]

I see no trades coming -- lou never deals from weakness ..and quite frankly.. what would change? please let this season take its course.. suck it up and reboot next year.

This is a new Devils era, I don't think Lou has a choice. He has to drop players because of the salary cap once Parise and Salvador and Marty are healthy.

But your right he IS dealing from weakness, so I don't expect much back for who ever gets dealt.

[Quinn01]

IMO The fallowing steps will occur in order:

1. Coaching Changes
2. Trades
3. Suicides

[RowdyFan42]

I see no trades coming -- lou never deals from weakness ..and quite frankly.. what would change? please let this season take its course.. suck it up and reboot next year.

I'm starting to agree. Lou might still have to make a trade to come into cap compliance when Parise is ready to come back, but beyond that, the annoying old "status quo" may just be the best course. At this point the season's basically shot; they're still mathematically in the playoff hunt, but it would require a vintage Devils effort to make that happen and we're just not going to get that this year. There's no point in firing Johnny Mac because his replacement would be merely coaching out the string, even if said replacement was retained for next year. I'm not a fan of intentionally tanking the season in the hopes of hitting the draft lottery, but at the same time, there's no point in trying to bust ass and maybe sneak into the playoffs at #8. Just let the chips fall where they may and try again next year.

[MantaRay]

Manta and I agree that when your team hires a sniper, you think that's not the System. but Manta can't get beyond the finesse and see Kovalchuk is a lover of hockey. He can hold up lots of reasons he "knows" Kovalchuk loves money only. but that doesn't fly with me. He wouldn't choke like this is it was about the money. this is not a player refusing to show up it's a guy who is lost. who SHOULD be because he's not sure of what clean simple hockey is -- it's not easy to see especially when people rely on you to only provide finesse. I really like Kovalchuk. He's a true lover of hockey and people need to accept that fact. He needs to remember that fact.... but that's neither here nor there at this point. With the minimal coaching (which I see the point on Chim) Kovalchuk is just lost -- he didn't come here for that -- and NO he didn't come for the money. i

yeah well so... soo... yeah.

Never once did I say Kovy "loves money", and have never attacked Kovy as a player. I have stated repeatedly that his ACQUISITION was a mistake mostly from the cap standpoint, and what his acquisition did to the other players, especially the special treatment from JL. Kovy is a very, talented individual but a square peg on this team or in you words "lost".

[DevilNurn]

I'm starting to agree. Lou might still have to make a trade to come into cap compliance when Parise is ready to come back, but beyond that, the annoying old "status quo" may just be the best course. At this point the season's basically shot; they're still mathematically in the playoff hunt, but it would require a vintage Devils effort to make that happen and we're just not going to get that this year. There's no point in firing Johnny Mac because his replacement would be merely coaching out the string, even if said replacement was retained for next year. I'm not a fan of intentionally tanking the season in the hopes of hitting the draft lottery, but at the same time, there's no point in trying to bust ass and maybe sneak into the playoffs at #8. Just let the chips fall where they may and try again next year.

I'm with you. I think it's worth getting as many young guys a few NHL games as possible and wait til next year when the cap is more workable and the team will have some chemistry ( ). This season is about as done as it can be.

[Pepperkorn]

I see no trades coming -- lou never deals from weakness ..and quite frankly.. what would change? please let this season take its course.. suck it up and reboot next year.

See... THIS is why I think we're to the point where he CAN. He looks to be in a position of massive weakness... it looks like the team, not the players. As a smart GM I have to see what's on this team - I MUST give some serious thought to what I can pick up at a bargain price right now. Devils players go for astronomical -- COMICAL sums. They ARE worth it - Gionta, Gomez, Rafalski, Martin. These guys were no great shakes on the Devils - but they were real role players and useful elsewhere.

No one is of any use to us at this point. They are only here IF you can make use of some other part. they are so interwoven that you can't see where the knot starts or ends... so it appears. I think you CAN but not from where ANYONE but Lou sits

What's great about Lou is he never looks for a knot he just sees individuals for what they are. Most of the time that works. Some really great guys are stuck in the tangle.

Zub isn't in the tangle -- I dont know what to make of that. Makes me want to keep him to be frank.

oy my head hurts... not really though

[Quinn01]

Realistically, what would be the changes that would occur between coaching changes and player trades?

I see Mac stepping down rather then being released and Lou taking the coaching spot until someone else comes along to take the duties on. Would most coaches out there that are looking for a job want to come into a franchise that is already this far into the whole and try to rebuild when its almost guaranteed that this season is a waste?

Who is most likely going to be the one to be sent packing player wise? Clarkson? Jamie? Rolston?

[Pepperkorn]

Never once did I say Kovy "loves money", and have never attacked Kovy as a player. I have stated repeatedly that his ACQUISITION was a mistake mostly from the cap standpoint, and what his acquisition did to the other players, especially the special treatment from JL. Kovy is a very, talented individual but a square peg on this team or in you words "lost".

It's on the TEAM dude. Lou made the call -- it's on the team to make it work. Stevens woudl make it work. And I think he'd have the right touch, Elias is mimicing but he's nto seeing. he's being too tough because he;s too nice and trying to balance it out.

My suspicion is on ice -- you have ot show him his weakness -- how he's not focusing by fvcking him up. Not with talk though. He needs the action -- he needs to see how he's getting tripped up. he needs to see his triggers - feel them in real time on ice. People on this team need to throw eachother off - shirts and skins man --- what gives with this -- hwo are they practicing? Well -- if no one can play other teams they certainly won't play -- heehee -- with themselves. But seriously. They have to get rough on each other -- it's FUN even.

fvck -- fire alarm..

[Triumph]

Like PK said, this mess has basically been brewing for the last 6 years or so. I know a lot of people here don't appreciate the regular season success we have had due to our playoff issues, but when you really consider how much talent has walked out the door over the last few years, well I'm just surprised it took so long for a season like this to actually happen. There once was a time when we had Scott Stevens palying 20+ minutes a night and anchoring the D. Now we have Andy Greene and Tallinder playing 20+ minutes a night. The Devils are officially far removed from their glory years.

I firmly believe that you should try to win every game that you play but this season is beyond repair. It just is. It's not as if they have just started off rough. They have sucked for an entire calendar year. The team stinks - plain and simple. We probably are beter off just being as bad as possible at this point. I'm not saying we should lose on purpose, but what is there to be gained by trying to fix this? We need draft picks back after the summer mess and we need good picks as well. Cut the fat on this roster, even it means waiting untill the end of the year, and then start fresh and look to improve next season.

I don't envy Lou one bit. He really is in this mess knee deep at this point. It's not going to be easy to fix this team. The D needs a complete overhaul, we need a first line center, we'll need a goalie very soon, we need more depth on the bottom lines as well as the top lines after this cess pool roster is purged. Aging vets with NMC's, yeah good luck. It's simple why Lou hasn't made any moves. He can't. Nobody is willing to dance with him at this point.

MacLean has gotten on my last nerve but it's better the Devils just stay the course at this point. No coach is turning this sh!t storm around. They're too far gone. This core, if you can even call it that, needs to be blown up.

I don't think this team needs to be 'blown up'. Henrik Tallinder, despite what he's shown in a Devils' uniform, is a perfectly legitimate 20 minute a game defender. Kovalchuk is still a 40 goal scorer.

What's going to happen was probably going to happen anyway. Of the players currently under contract, Rolston, Elias, and Salvador are probably on their last NHL contracts. Langenbrunner has a maximum of 2 years left after this year, and IMO with the way he's playing, probably only one year. Arnott probably the same. Zubrus has 2 more years left on his contract after this current one, I can't see him lasting 2 years after that, and he might be on his last contract as well. White will be 34½ when his contract is up - he'll have a maximum of 2 years left as well. Brodeur could last for a long time if he's willing to be a 1A goalie, but I don't see that happening. All these guys were going or gone anyway. Clarkson and Greene are the two real disappointments. Other than that, it's smooth sailing through calm waters. Tedenby needs some fixing but he looks like an NHL player if he ever figures out how to use his teammates (and even if he doesn't). Taormina looks like a keeper. Fayne has showed some okay things. It's a team of rookies and veterans - two of the players in their prime (Volchenkov, Parise) have missed significant time.

Edited by Triumph, 07 December 2010 - 12:51 PM.

[rbdf]

way too much talent on this team for it to suck this badly - that's coaching, and leadership, that needs to be changed.  What I seriously don't get though is that Lou is basically biting off his nose to spite his face.  Ownership forced him to bring in Kovy, regardless of contract/fit with team/etc. etc. because they need a star in order to sell luxury boxes and club seats.  So what, now he sits there and says, "look, i told you so, stay out of MY hockey operations" and lets this team quickly slide out of a playoff spot?  Just fire mclean already and put everyone out of their misery.

It would be one thing if this was a rebuilding year, and we were losing with a bunch of young talent that is learning to play the NHL level - but we're not, we're losing with very talented, but aged, veterans.  And unless some of them start showing some ability again (rolston, langs, zubi, broduer, etc.) then the only real trade bait we have to dangle at other teams are Elias, Zajac, Arnott and Parise when he gets back - guys like zajac and parise are what you need to build around, not trade, but they are the only players of any value on this team right now.

I could deal with a rebuilding suck it up kind of year or two if that's what he was doing, but it's not.  Lou is just holding on too long to a coach that can't handle the team he was given - cut bait and go fish elsewhere, you're having no luck here - sorry johnny mac, but loyalty can only go so far, and he knows that as good as anyone else (mr. ranger bleu)

[Triumph]

way too much talent on this team for it to suck this badly - that's coaching, and leadership, that needs to be changed. What I seriously don't get though is that Lou is basically biting off his nose to spite his face. Ownership forced him to bring in Kovy, regardless of contract/fit with team/etc. etc. because they need a star in order to sell luxury boxes and club seats. So what, now he sits there and says, "look, i told you so, stay out of MY hockey operations" and lets this team quickly slide out of a playoff spot? Just fire mclean already and put everyone out of their misery.

It would be one thing if this was a rebuilding year, and we were losing with a bunch of young talent that is learning to play the NHL level - but we're not, we're losing with very talented, but aged, veterans. And unless some of them start showing some ability again (rolston, langs, zubi, broduer, etc.) then the only real trade bait we have to dangle at other teams are Elias, Zajac, Arnott and Parise when he gets back - guys like zajac and parise are what you need to build around, not trade, but they are the only players of any value on this team right now.

I could deal with a rebuilding suck it up kind of year or two if that's what he was doing, but it's not. Lou is just holding on too long to a coach that can't handle the team he was given - cut bait and go fish elsewhere, you're having no luck here - sorry johnny mac, but loyalty can only go so far, and he knows that as good as anyone else (mr. ranger bleu)

the devils are probably like 5% to make the playoffs at this point. it's 1/3rd of the way through the season and the devils have 18 points. even figuring generously at 90 points to reach the playoffs, that's 72 points in the remaining 55 games. 72 points in 55 games is 36-19-0, or more realistically, something like 32-15-8. that's a ridiculous run for a team that even with good execution and normal luck would probably be around .500.

there's really no point to firing maclean now. let lou try to get the stragglers off the team and see what maclean can do. if the team is this bad 20 games into next season, then i'll call for maclean's head.

Edited by Triumph, 07 December 2010 - 12:58 PM.

[SMantzas]

way too much talent on this team for it to suck this badly - that's coaching, and leadership, that needs to be changed. What I seriously don't get though is that Lou is basically biting off his nose to spite his face. Ownership forced him to bring in Kovy, regardless of contract/fit with team/etc. etc. because they need a star in order to sell luxury boxes and club seats. So what, now he sits there and says, "look, i told you so, stay out of MY hockey operations" and lets this team quickly slide out of a playoff spot? Just fire mclean already and put everyone out of their misery.

It would be one thing if this was a rebuilding year, and we were losing with a bunch of young talent that is learning to play the NHL level - but we're not, we're losing with very talented, but aged, veterans. And unless some of them start showing some ability again (rolston, langs, zubi, broduer, etc.) then the only real trade bait we have to dangle at other teams are Elias, Zajac, Arnott and Parise when he gets back - guys like zajac and parise are what you need to build around, not trade, but they are the only players of any value on this team right now.

I could deal with a rebuilding suck it up kind of year or two if that's what he was doing, but it's not. Lou is just holding on too long to a coach that can't handle the team he was given - cut bait and go fish elsewhere, you're having no luck here - sorry johnny mac, but loyalty can only go so far, and he knows that as good as anyone else (mr. ranger bleu)

with some snipping and cutting, the devils still have a good core.

Kovy, Zajac, Parise and Volchenkov is not shabby at all.

At the deadline, if you deal Arnott for a late 1st/2nd, Langs for a 2nd/3rd, Greene for 2nd and somehow get Clarkson out of here, the it doesnt look so bad and we have an insane amount of picks

[hargsy]

I see no trades coming -- lou never deals from weakness ..and quite frankly.. what would change? please let this season take its course.. suck it up and reboot next year.

Tough choice for Lou.....cause I never see him throwing a season out, no matter how bad. This team needs revenue from playoff games, so you know he's still thinking we have a shot (although I dont)
But your right about dealing from weakness.........None of our players would fetch much in return.............but we will need to move players for cap reasons......ugh, my head would be spinning if I were Lou

[Triumph]

Tough choice for Lou.....cause I never see him throwing a season out, no matter how bad. This team needs revenue from playoff games, so you know he's still thinking we have a shot (although I dont)
But your right about dealing from weakness.........None of our players would fetch much in return.............but we will need to move players for cap reasons......ugh, my head would be spinning if I were Lou

if the devils trade arnott, clarkson, and langenbrunner at the trade deadline, they will save $1.5 million dollars. i don't know what the devils make in playoff revenue, but that's not insubstantial.

[Devs1965]

IMO it may be just a guess That Jamie saying what he is saying is a way of him wanting off this team.. I would not find it to hard to believe that most of the players feel this way.
They all want to play for a contendar esp the older players.

Edited by Devs1965, 07 December 2010 - 01:15 PM.

[Dead]

I like some of the changes the devils are making, but I am not sure if they can continue long-term. By the way I am referring to ticket specials. Just got one for the 12/15, 12/23, and 12/31. $50 gets you (2)$59 tickets and $20 food/bev credit. Generally most people buy food/drinks while at a game, so in the end it is about $15 for each $59 ticket.

The only thing is you have to buy the tickets in pairs

[Pepperkorn]

I don't think this team needs to be 'blown up'. Henrik Tallinder, despite what he's shown in a Devils' uniform, is a perfectly legitimate 20 minute a game defender. Kovalchuk is still a 40 goal scorer.

What's going to happen was probably going to happen anyway. Of the players currently under contract, Rolston, Elias, and Salvador are probably on their last NHL contracts. Langenbrunner has a maximum of 2 years left after this year, and IMO with the way he's playing, probably only one year. Arnott probably the same. Zubrus has 2 more years left on his contract after this current one, I can't see him lasting 2 years after that, and he might be on his last contract as well. White will be 34½ when his contract is up - he'll have a maximum of 2 years left as well. Brodeur could last for a long time if he's willing to be a 1A goalie, but I don't see that happening. All these guys were going or gone anyway. Clarkson and Greene are the two real disappointments. Other than that, it's smooth sailing through calm waters. Tedenby needs some fixing but he looks like an NHL player if he ever figures out how to use his teammates (and even if he doesn't). Taormina looks like a keeper. Fayne has showed some okay things. It's a team of rookies and veterans - two of the players in their prime (Volchenkov, Parise) have missed significant time.

I actually pretty much agree with most of this. I just think -- well Maybe I just WANT a good ass kicking to come down on these schmoes. I dont even think public humiliation is good enough for them because at the end of the day it's all calm logic just like your post and I think they all feel that way too.

What I read here is realy - So they miss the playoffs they weren't going to do anything there anyhow. Let the clock tick down -- no big deal it all comes out in the wash. I'm just not at ease with that mindset regardless of the outcome because the process isn't productive. It COULD be a fun productive time and it's not -- it's all Mogilny. You're content with that Mogilny slouch - the sh!t that bred the favorite Alex Who line. I HATE THAT But Eeyore says "It all comes out in the wash" grrrr...

[Jerrydevil]

"We all know Lou well enough to know something's going to happen. And deservedly so," Langenbrunner said after last night's 2-1 loss to the Penguins.

I have not read this entire thread, so I don't know what other people have said about this quote, but that sounds like a backhanded trade request.

[DevilinLA]

I have not read this entire thread, so I don't know what other people have said about this quote, but that sounds like a backhanded trade request.

Oh jeez get off it already.
At least he spoke up. He's a captain and probably doesn't want to see and of his comrades have to leave (even if its well warranted).
Actually I think its a coded message that he has quit on the team, the NHL, the sport, and is plotting to blow up the White House.
Some folks just want there scapegoat.