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Rebuild or reload?


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#21 justdo3043

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:31 PM

Obviously I think we'd all prefer a reload to a rebuild...but you have to ask yourself if Lou could possibly make this team that much better through one offseason.

Even if we draft larsson, I suspect he'll play a year or two in the AHL (just seems to be the way Lou handles the rookies). So without a UFA addition, the AHL-calibur defense stays the same.

Who from this upcoming UFA class is worth signing on defense? We've all witnessed Lou bringing in an established player only to see him tank, especially with defensemen.

It seems to me that a rebuild (2+ years at least) is sorta inevitable, especially with Marty approaching retirement.

Too many holes to fill in one year. :noclue:



i wish reload....but its got to be rebuild....but i dont think 4 years....2 top draft picks and a third for development and we'll be contenders
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#22 Otty Ott-Sauce

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:34 PM

Just reload the KovalCup Kannon then BOOM!!! KovalCup (after we win it this year)
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#23 Triumph

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 08:36 PM

that is just not going to happen. you're gonna have to give up on this dream my friend.


i know it's very unlikely, but who knows? from this point forward his presence on this team is a negative.
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#24 sundstrom

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 09:08 PM

i know it's very unlikely, but who knows? from this point forward his presence on this team is a negative.


i don't think anyone that makes decisions or pays money for season tickets thinks this.

edit: other than me

Edited by sundstrom, 19 December 2010 - 09:09 PM.

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#25 coldply123

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 09:17 PM

If done right, Devils only have to re-load. They can add a couple of picks and a prospect or two by shedding Langs and Arnott. I think guys like Greene and Clarkson could be moved as well, although the return on those two would be low. I wouldnt look to do any suprising moves right now like dealing Zajac. Deals like that are made in the offseason.

I think one of the highest priorities is getting a puck-moving defenseman in here who could help not just with a PP, but moreso being a threat of helping ease the transitional game to the forwards in rushing up the ice. Part of the reason the Devils are getting killed defensively is because opposing teams are clamping down on the neutral zone and forechecking with ease because of the lack of a threat of a quick moving transitional game with a QB type of defenseman. And we need to avoid age in getting that, which means no Kaberle. Make an aggressive move for a slightly younger guy.

I would have to think that Marty would have enough self-confidence and pride that he would not want to sit through and suffer through what may be an even more trying 2nd half of the season. It's a tough call for him, but I wouldnt blame him for wanting out, considering what he may be subjected to the rest of the year. I'd have to think teams like the Lightning and Capitals would be convincing for another run at the Cup. If he stays because he wants to retire a Devil, I can respect that. Something makes me think the competitor in him would be willing to consider getting moved.

And of course, hiring the right coach who should be hired by the new GM.
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#26 coldply123

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Posted 19 December 2010 - 09:23 PM

i don't think anyone that makes decisions or pays money for season tickets thinks this.

edit: other than me


I agree with Tri. From a realistic perspective. Brodeur is an unnecessary part now with his age and salary and decline, and a bit of a roadblock in terms of being able to make hard decisions going forward.. I've always felt that he has had too much control and his stature has hurt the ability of some coaches when they have been here, particularly since Marty made himself a legend earlier in the decade. He's kind of like what I consider the on-ice version of Lou. Both are living off of past glory, but are hindering the team in doing so.

I think the Devils need to move on from the Brodeur era. Too many fans are living in the past. Both Lou and Brodeur have had fantastic careers and they have done a lot for the Devils. But it's time to get a fresh and rejuvenated era in here. Failure to accept this as reality, means subjecting this organization to potentially several more years of mediocrity than is necessary.
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#27 HellOnICE

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:57 AM

Brodeur needs to go for sure, but I don't really care either way. I think we have bigger fish to fry.

As for White - I don't think we should give him up - UNLESS we get OVERpayment for Whitey. Then I do it, which obviously makes sense.
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#28 CarpathianForest

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 09:40 AM

Maybe Marty would go to Montreal. Back up Price in the playoffs.
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#29 Daniel

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:03 AM

I'm starting to think somewhere in between. Assuming no new disasters, next year we'll probably be between missing the playoffs by 10 points and eeking in. Parise playing a full year, plus Kovy, Tallinder, Volchenkov (just by virtue of getting used to things, IMO anyway) improving will help. Brodeur, White being one year older plus even less defensive depth than this year will hurt.

Not bad enough to blow the whole thing up, not good enough for a major bounceback. 2012-13 season is probably when things start to turn around to everyone's liking. Maybe we'll have Larsson plus Jon Merrill (who is doing very well at Michigan, statwise anyway) to fill out the D. Tedenby/Josefson should both be solid NHLers by then. With Rolston gone, maybe enough cap space to sign another solid defenseman.
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#30 CarpathianForest

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:14 AM

I'm starting to think somewhere in between. Assuming no new disasters, next year we'll probably be between missing the playoffs by 10 points and eeking in. Parise playing a full year, plus Kovy, Tallinder, Volchenkov (just by virtue of getting used to things, IMO anyway) improving will help. Brodeur, White being one year older plus even less defensive depth than this year will hurt.

Not bad enough to blow the whole thing up, not good enough for a major bounceback. 2012-13 season is probably when things start to turn around to everyone's liking. Maybe we'll have Larsson plus Jon Merrill (who is doing very well at Michigan, statwise anyway) to fill out the D. Tedenby/Josefson should both be solid NHLers by then. With Rolston gone, maybe enough cap space to sign another solid defenseman.


Ehh, I think we may be able to move a couple guys to clear enough cap space to maybe bring in another decent d man from another team in the off season. Everyone knows I want Big Buff but that might very well cost us 6mil the way he's playing. If Arnott, Langs come off the books, maybe Greene and Clarkson get traded perhaps we get Parise and a good d man. Not exactly Byfuglien but someone good. I think at the very least things should be better next season.
Bottom line: two pieces we need, a center for Kovy and one more D Man. I think you can find a good center for Kovy at a good price. Rich Peverley is a UFA this off season, so is Mikhail Grabovski. Alex Semin would be pretty pricey. I think one more D Man, stay at home or PMD would be useful as well. Tao has the potential to be a solid PMD.
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#31 Triumph

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:15 AM

I'm starting to think somewhere in between. Assuming no new disasters, next year we'll probably be between missing the playoffs by 10 points and eeking in. Parise playing a full year, plus Kovy, Tallinder, Volchenkov (just by virtue of getting used to things, IMO anyway) improving will help. Brodeur, White being one year older plus even less defensive depth than this year will hurt.

Not bad enough to blow the whole thing up, not good enough for a major bounceback. 2012-13 season is probably when things start to turn around to everyone's liking. Maybe we'll have Larsson plus Jon Merrill (who is doing very well at Michigan, statwise anyway) to fill out the D. Tedenby/Josefson should both be solid NHLers by then. With Rolston gone, maybe enough cap space to sign another solid defenseman.


this is a playoff team next year.
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#32 halfsharkalligatorhalfman

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 10:26 AM

It's too early to tell I think.

But the Defense has serious issues with moving the puck, and it's looking like the Devils are going to be losing Andy Greene, who has been terrible this year, but is still their best puck moving defenseman. Great puck movers don't hit FA anymore, and I don't think Taormina and Salmela are going to take tremendous steps this year to become great at it. How the hell do they fill in that hole if not through high draft picks/great development?

The injuries this year have been awful, but I really think the current plight of the Devils can be traced to losing Oduya, Martin, and Mottau in a 6 month span. I don't see a way to reload and take care of those huge losses, unless Taormina and Salmela become much better over the next 6 months.
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#33 Daniel

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:00 AM

this is a playoff team next year.


What makes you think that? As it stands now, and all things being equal, the main differences will be: Parise for the entire year, Tedenby/Josefson improving, maybe a 19 year old Larsson/Coutier; no Langs, Arnott and maybe no Rolston, Clarkson, Andy Greene; other players past their prime getting older (White, Brodeur, Elias).

You don't stink this badly for it just to be a fluke. No, we're not late 90s Islanders bad. There's a good core of players. But the depth, especially at the blue-line, is more than a year away from being good enough to comfortably make the playoffs.

Edited by Daniel, 20 December 2010 - 11:02 AM.

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#34 Triumph

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:07 AM

What makes you think that? As it stands now, and all things being equal, the main differences will be: Parise for the entire year, Tedenby/Josefson improving, maybe a 19 year old Larsson/Coutier; no Langs, Arnott and maybe no Rolston, Clarkson, Andy Greene; other players past their prime getting older (White, Brodeur, Elias).

You don't stink this badly for it just to be a fluke. No, we're not late 90s Islanders bad. There's a good core of players. But the depth, especially at the blue-line, is more than a year away from being good enough to comfortably make the playoffs.


the flyers made the playoffs in 06. they made the playoffs in 08. in 07 they finished dead last.

the hurricanes made the playoffs in 09. they were the 7th worst team in the nhl last season. they are around nhl average this season, things could go either way for them.

a big part of things would be either getting rid of brodeur or getting a 1B goalie who can spell brodeur for 40 or so games.
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#35 CarpathianForest

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:08 AM

What makes you think that? As it stands now, and all things being equal, the main differences will be: Parise for the entire year, Tedenby/Josefson improving, maybe a 19 year old Larsson/Coutier; no Langs, Arnott and maybe no Rolston, Clarkson, Andy Greene; other players past their prime getting older (White, Brodeur, Elias).

You don't stink this badly for it just to be a fluke. No, we're not late 90s Islanders bad. There's a good core of players. But the depth, especially at the blue-line, is more than a year away from being good enough to comfortably make the playoffs.


Yeah but it's not like we lose Langs, Arnott, Rolston, Clarkson and Greene and not sign any UFAs. Having those players gone gives us like 10 mil to work with possibly. You could sign a few decent players for that coin. So making the playoffs next year is certainly a possibility if you uses his money wisely.
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#36 Daniel

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:10 AM

Ehh, I think we may be able to move a couple guys to clear enough cap space to maybe bring in another decent d man from another team in the off season. Everyone knows I want Big Buff but that might very well cost us 6mil the way he's playing. If Arnott, Langs come off the books, maybe Greene and Clarkson get traded perhaps we get Parise and a good d man. Not exactly Byfuglien but someone good. I think at the very least things should be better next season.
Bottom line: two pieces we need, a center for Kovy and one more D Man. I think you can find a good center for Kovy at a good price. Rich Peverley is a UFA this off season, so is Mikhail Grabovski. Alex Semin would be pretty pricey. I think one more D Man, stay at home or PMD would be useful as well. Tao has the potential to be a solid PMD.


You can't really count on some free-agent signings this offseason to come to the rescue. Not saying it won't happen, but its too unpredictable to pin one's hopes on. Any assessment of any team down the road has to be based on the roster that will definitely (or almost definitely) be in place, plus where one can likely expect to be in the draft order.
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#37 Daniel

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:17 AM

the flyers made the playoffs in 06. they made the playoffs in 08. in 07 they finished dead last.

the hurricanes made the playoffs in 09. they were the 7th worst team in the nhl last season. they are around nhl average this season, things could go either way for them.

a big part of things would be either getting rid of brodeur or getting a 1B goalie who can spell brodeur for 40 or so games.


Hurricanes maybe are a good comparison, but the Flyers are not. They had much more depth going into and out of their bad season. Their young guys on the upswing were Richards/Carter, who are much better than Tedenby/Josefson will be.

Yeah but it's not like we lose Langs, Arnott, Rolston, Clarkson and Greene and not sign any UFAs. Having those players gone gives us like 10 mil to work with possibly. You could sign a few decent players for that coin. So making the playoffs next year is certainly a possibility if you uses his money wisely.


I never said making the playoffs next year is out of the question. I just wouldn't get my hopes to high until the 2012-13 season.

Edited by Daniel, 20 December 2010 - 11:17 AM.

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#38 Triumph

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:22 AM

Hurricanes maybe are a good comparison, but the Flyers are not. They had much more depth going into and out of their bad season. Their young guys on the upswing were Richards/Carter, who are much better than Tedenby/Josefson will be.


in the devils' case, the improvement will come from having parise for a full season and having kovalchuk score like normal. let's not go painting these parallels too close. i'll start looking for comparable teams but there aren't going to be many who end up outshooting the opposition and yet ending up a lottery team. toronto last year was one, but their penalty killing was horrendous. right now the devils are -2 on special teams and -38 at evens despite outshooting teams. that's hard to do.

Edited by Triumph, 20 December 2010 - 11:23 AM.

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#39 peteyvegas

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 11:47 AM

Rebuild. You cant teach old dogs new tricks. The team needs a new style of play. One which includes puck handling and defensemen who get involved.
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#40 britoon

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Posted 20 December 2010 - 12:18 PM

Rebuild.
Off load 80% of the team.
Keep Parise, Travis, Kovy (of course), Tedenby, Greene perhaps.
Go young.

It'll take a few years but we can come back with a vengeance.
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