116 replies to this topic

[Quinn01]

I can't wait to see who the board blames next week. The suspense is killing me.

Itll be all on Lou. Now that JL is in as coach, if nothing happens itll all fall on Lou for "not changing the coaches soon enough." You watch....

Im sticking with my blame....its on the whole team (players).

[LucifersDog]

No need for me to comment.

[ThreeCups]

I can't wait to see who the board blames next week. The suspense is killing me.

Exactly. Kovy was the whipping boy, now it's Marty

[Zubie#8]

Itll be all on Lou. Now that JL is in as coach, if nothing happens itll all fall on Lou for "not changing the coaches soon enough." You watch....

Im sticking with my blame....its on the whole team (players).

Everybody should have my mindset

I Blame:
Lou- Cap issues/ Not firing or making a move early enough
Mac- Bad Coach
Hedberg- Bad start to season
Fraser- Poor in the gms he played
White- Solid but yet he has those terrible moments
Greene- Lost
Tallinder- Terrible
Zubrus- Inability to finish
Parise- Poor in the gms he played (yes i know he was injured)
Pelley- Good on pk, bad 5 on 5
Mair- Nothing Special
Rolston- Just awful
Sestito- Nothing Special
Langenbrunner- Needs more production
Josefson- Just average in his gms played
Kovalchuk- Inconsistent
Vasyunov- Nothing Special
Zajac- Needs more production
Taormina- Good surprise, few mistakes on D
Tedenby- Good surprise needs to make better decisions with puck, he will be good
Corrente- Awful
Clarkson- Learn how to stay on your feet
Arnott- Inconsistent
Elias- Slow start but picking it up
Volchenkov- Mistakes on D, terrible on the transition
Magnan- Nothing Special
Salmela- Nothing Special
Fayne- Awful mistakes on D
Urbom- Still developing
Brodeur- Make a save

There you go

Edited by Zubie#8, 27 December 2010 - 01:59 AM.

[Satans Hockey]

I can't wait to see who the board blames next week. The suspense is killing me.

I blame you! I mean...we are running out of people to blame so it might as well be all your fault!

[Devilsfan118]

This whole team is flawed, marty included.

But obviously the blame for most of these losses cannot be put solely on marty

[devilsrule33]

I hate replying to a ridiculous title and a lot of crap by the OP, but I did want to talk about Marty.

Brodeur has played the game different than any other goalie in hockey history. While everyone has copied Roy's butterfly positioning, no one has dared to touch Marty's unique style. What made it work was incredible reflexes and athleticism that he possessed. To help make it work, he wore the smallest equipment. But now, when you lose that athleticism, the style is a very tough one to play and wearing the smaller pads becomes serious problem. We already know for the first time in his career he added something to his pads to cover the five hole.

You look at a guy like Dwayne Roloson chugging along at 41, on a sh!tty team, but playing extremely well. Probably partly because of his butterfly style and equipment. I doubt Marty can redefine his game at this age. We better hope this is just his first big slump of his career and nothing more, because it could get pretty ugly as the season goes on.

Edited by devilsrule33, 27 December 2010 - 12:42 PM.

[hit the post]

Exactly. Kovy was the whipping boy, now it's Marty

I don't think its a case of blame this one or that one,its more expecting them to do the job they were hired to do.Kovy sure isn't what we expected of him so far,and Marty has lost a few steps on the way down the staircase.He has done so much for this team and its fans for so long,that it hard to watch him be anything but great.At this point he should be willing to be the back up and help work/teach a young goalie while still getting in some games himself.I really feel that Marty can't and won't ever lead this team to another cup,so its time to work on finding his replacement as a #1 goalie...I think he's having a hard time with the fact that he's not what he once was,some here blame the bad D but Marty has let in so many soft/weak one's that I have lost count,the confidence we fans have always in him is now gone...and its very hard to watch.

[ThreeCups]

I don't think its a case of blame this one or that one,its more expecting them to do the job they were hired to do.Kovy sure isn't what we expected of him so far,and Marty has lost a few steps on the way down the staircase.He has done so much for this team and its fans for so long,that it hard to watch him be anything but great.At this point he should be willing to be the back up and help work/teach a young goalie while still getting in some games himself.I really feel that Marty can't and won't ever lead this team to another cup,so its time to work on finding his replacement as a #1 goalie...I think he's having a hard time with the fact that he's not what he once was,some here blame the bad D but Marty has let in so many soft/weak one's that I have lost count,the confidence we fans have always in him is now gone...and its very hard to watch.

Marty definitely won't be a backup. Also, there is no goalie on the planet that could lead THIS team as is to a Cup....

[DaneykoIsGod]

I hate replying to a ridiculous title and a lot of crap by the OP, but I did want to talk about Marty.

Brodeur has played the game different than any other goalie in hockey history. While everyone has copied Roy's butterfly positioning, no one has dared to touch Marty's unique style. What made it work was incredible reflexes and athleticism that he possessed. To help make it work, he wore the smallest equipment. But now, when you lose that athleticism, the style is a ver tough one to play and wearing the smaller pads becomes s erious problem. We already know for the first time in his career he added something to his pads to cover the five hole.

You look at a guy like Dwayne Roloson chugging along at 41, on a sh!tty team, but playing extremely well. Probably partly because of his butterfly style and equipment. I doubt Marty can't redefine his game at this age. We better hope this is just his first big slump of his career and nothing more, because it could get pretty ugly as the season goes on.

Thank you for actually contributing to the thread, not just making another "Blame Marty" or "How can anyone blame Marty?" post. The guy isn't who he once was, and reflexes, style and equipment all play into it.

Like I said in my earlier post, maybe it's just me, but I've been seeing more butterfly from Marty this season than I'm used to. Maybe he's trying to make a transition in an effort to play more years, since that style is more conducive to a long goaltending career? Maybe he's trying the ol' sit-back-and-take-up-space style because the reflexes ain't what they once were? Whatever the reason, it isn't working. If the reflexes are gone to the point where he can't be his usual challenging self, daring the shooter to beat him before snapping the glove, then he really does need to hang 'em up. If he's trying to change his style, he needs to stop. He's 38. Old dogs don't take kindly to new tricks, especially when they don't have the right equipment for it.

[Chimaira_Devil_#9]

I hate replying to a ridiculous title and a lot of crap by the OP, but I did want to talk about Marty.

Brodeur has played the game different than any other goalie in hockey history. While everyone has copied Roy's butterfly positioning, no one has dared to touch Marty's unique style. What made it work was incredible reflexes and athleticism that he possessed. To help make it work, he wore the smallest equipment. But now, when you lose that athleticism, the style is a ver tough one to play and wearing the smaller pads becomes s erious problem. We already know for the first time in his career he added something to his pads to cover the five hole.

You look at a guy like Dwayne Roloson chugging along at 41, on a sh!tty team, but playing extremely well. Probably partly because of his butterfly style and equipment. I doubt Marty can't redefine his game at this age. We better hope this is just his first big slump of his career and nothing more, because it could get pretty ugly as the season goes on.

I think you are pretty much spot on. But i do think he can adjust his style to become more effective.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

I don't have a problem with Devils fans wondering if it might be the beginning of the end for Marty, or taking it a step further and feeling that the end might very well be right now. He's 38 years old and has played a hell of a lot of games...at his age guys can and do indeed lose it seemingly overnight. I hope it's just a slump, but none of us can say for sure if he's done or not.

The only thing that bothers me about some fans is the complete and utter lack of respect and appreciation for what he's done for his career and for this franchise. Yes, it may be coming to a painful end right before our very eyes, but how can what we've seen this year possibly negate everything he did before this season...I'm at a loss on that one. Think about what we've seen since Marty first skated onto the ice for the Devils. More wins and shutouts than any other goalie ever to play in the NHL, and far and away the most wins by a goalie for one team. Much of the reason all of those wins came in a Devil uniform was because he actually dared to think of his team first and took less money to stay, as opposed to trying to set markets for the NHLPA and fellow goaltenders...he actually WANTED to stay in NJ! And look up his numbers through last season...not so much as one season that can really be categorized as an "off year", by anyone's standards. Even the very best have a year or two in their primes where they might not have their typical expected season...not Marty.

You got to see him help his team reach four Stanley Cup Finals, and help to win three of them...which is three more Championships and four more Finals than most teams can say in that same timeframe. No, he wasn't always at his best come playoff time, but he was a huge reason his team got to the playoffs in all but one of his seasons since he became the #1 guy. Some of you who started following the team in the early 90s may not realize that making the playoffs every season isn't a birthright...for all the laughing you might have done when teams like the Flyers, Penguins, Rangers and others were missing the playoffs routinely, did you really think that wouldn't happen to us at some point?

No matter how bad things are right now, and no matter how much Marty's struggling, I think at the very least the guy has earned far respect than I'm seeing him get in these forums.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 27 December 2010 - 09:10 AM.

[LucifersDog]

Marty has demonstrated that he was and is as good as the defense in front of him. That's why I have always said his personal records belong to the Devils team because he wouldn't have them if the strategy wasn't defense first and they didn't put great defensemen in front of him. That's not saying he wasn't a good goalie because he was.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Marty has demonstrated that he was and is as good as the defense in front of him. That's why I have always said his personal records belong to the Devils team because he wouldn't have them if the strategy wasn't defense first and they didn't put great defensemen in front of him. That's not saying he wasn't a good goalie because he was.

It would pretty safe to say that the Devils' defenses of the last five seasons weren't anything to go crazy about, talent-wise...at least, not on par with the best Devils teams.

Marty's career GAA is now 2.23 and his lifetime save% is .913

Here's his last five seasons:

43-23-7, 2.57, .911
48-23-7, 2.18, .922
44-27-6, 2.17, .920
19-9-3, 2.42, .916
45-25-6, 2.24, .916

Oh BTW, before the lockout Marty had never faced 2000 shots in a season. In the four seasons out of these last five that I have listed (all the ones where he was healthy), he faced 2004 shots or more, yet still put up GAAs not far from his norm and in all but one season put up save%s ABOVE his career number.

So much for that "Marty ain't nothin' without Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski-Dano" argument...

[ThreeCups]

I don't have a problem with Devils fans wondering if it might be the beginning of the end for Marty, or taking it a step further and feeling that the end might very well be right now. He's 38 years old and has played a hell of a lot of games...at his age guys can and do indeed lose it seemingly overnight. I hope it's just a slump, but none of us can say for sure if he's done or not.

The only thing that bothers me about some fans is the complete and utter lack of respect and appreciation for what he's done for his career and for this franchise. Yes, it may be coming to a painful end right before our very eyes, but how can what we've seen this year possibly negate everything he did before this season...I'm at a loss on that one. Think about what we've seen since Marty first skated onto the ice for the Devils. More wins and shutouts than any other goalie ever to play in the NHL, and far and away the most wins by a goalie for one team. Much of the reason all of those wins came in a Devil uniform was because he actually dared to think of his team first and took less money to stay, as opposed to trying to set markets for the NHLPA and fellow goaltenders...he actually WANTED to stay in NJ! And look up his numbers through last season...not so much as one season that can really be categorized as an "off year", by anyone's standards. Even the very best have a year or two in their primes where they might not have their typical expected season...not Marty.

You got to see him help his team reach four Stanley Cup Finals, and help to win three of them...which is three more Championships and four more Finals than most teams can say in that same timeframe. No, he wasn't always at his best come playoff time, but he was a huge reason his team got to the playoffs in all but one of his seasons since he became the #1 guy. Some of you who started following the team in the early 90s may not realize that making the playoffs every season isn't a birthright...for all the laughing you might have done when teams like the Flyers, Penguins, Rangers and others were missing the playoffs routinely, did you really think that wouldn't happen to us at some point?

No matter how bad things are right now, and no matter how much Marty's struggling, I think at the very least the guy has earned far respect than I'm seeing him get in these forums.

I applaud you sir. First realistic post taking all things into consideration. People are blasting Marty like he was a hired gun brought in for THIS season to take us to a Cup. The man is a living legend, and nobody in the history of the Devils has given/or will ever give what he did to this franchise.

It would pretty safe to say that the Devils' defenses of the last five seasons weren't anything to go crazy about, talent-wise...at least, not on par with the best Devils teams.

Marty's career GAA is now 2.23 and his lifetime save% is .913

Here's his last five seasons:

43-23-7, 2.57, .911
48-23-7, 2.18, .922
44-27-6, 2.17, .920
19-9-3, 2.42, .916
45-25-6, 2.24, .916

Oh BTW, before the lockout Marty had never faced 2000 shots in a season. In the four seasons out of these last five that I have listed (all the ones where he was healthy), he faced 2004 shots or more, yet still put up GAAs not far from his norm and in all but one season put up save%s ABOVE his career number.

So much for that "Marty ain't nothin' without Stevens-Nieds-Rafalski-Dano" argument...

ANOTHER Marty myth DEBUNKED! You are on a roll today CR1976

[DaneykoIsGod]

Marty never was a workhorse in terms of making a ton of saves. He just made the big ones. Just like Stevens got into the opponents' heads with his hits, Marty did the same with his saves. He was famous for teasing guys by showing a lot of net on his glove side, then quickly flashing the leather and leaving them shaking their heads. It doesn't seem like that swagger -- or those reflexes -- are there any more.

Another big element of his game was his stickhandling. You couldn't dump-and-chase on Marty the third defenseman. Then the trapezoid came and limited him, but he eventually learned to work around it somewhat. But now his stickhandling just isn't very good anymore. At this point, the trapezoid is almost a blessing.

I'll always rank Marty high on my list of favorite athletes and be thankful for all he's done. I don't blame anything on him as this team's problems extend well beyond the crease. But he just isn't what he once was. I still hope he can turn it around, but at this point I feel like we're just seeing that painful twilight of a hero's career. I can't blame anyone who doesn't want to see any more.

[Lateralous]

Thank you for actually contributing to the thread, not just making another "Blame Marty" or "How can anyone blame Marty?" post. The guy isn't who he once was, and reflexes, style and equipment all play into it.

Like I said in my earlier post, maybe it's just me, but I've been seeing more butterfly from Marty this season than I'm used to. Maybe he's trying to make a transition in an effort to play more years, since that style is more conducive to a long goaltending career? Maybe he's trying the ol' sit-back-and-take-up-space style because the reflexes ain't what they once were? Whatever the reason, it isn't working. If the reflexes are gone to the point where he can't be his usual challenging self, daring the shooter to beat him before snapping the glove, then he really does need to hang 'em up. If he's trying to change his style, he needs to stop. He's 38. Old dogs don't take kindly to new tricks, especially when they don't have the right equipment for it.

Belfour extended his career a few years by bulking up the equipment and becoming a standard butterfly guy at the end of his career. By the time he was in Toronto he looked nothing like the guy who was sprawling all over the place making acrobatic save after acrobatic save in 34" pads in the 2000 Stanley Cup Finals for the Stars. I think you'll probably see Brodeur do the same thing. If Lou can sort out the defense, I think Marty will be adequate once the adjustment period is over. The slow glove hand is hard to watch though after all the years of having the best glove in the league.

[Triumph]

No question that the best part of Marty's career was post-lockout.

I understand Brodeur isn't getting much respect, but that's in part because he stinks right now. Spare me the bit about the offense - yes, the offense is horrendous. But Brodeur hasn't been that much better. He's got 3 shutouts this year. Let's see what his stats are like in non-shutout games:

3.55 GAA, .868 SV%

Those are Darren Pang numbers. Yes, I understand that taking out his shutouts is a form of data snooping.

I worry about the team going forward. Right now, the Devils cannot think that Brodeur can play more than 40 games next year. They absolutely must get a guy who can fill that other time. When it comes time for Brodeur to retire, then Devils fans will remember the good times, but it's tough to remember those times when he's playing as poorly as he is.

[CarpathianForest]

The team is bad overall, but you gotta hand it to the opposing team's goaltenders. They seem to bring their "A" game when they play the Devils.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

No question that the best part of Marty's career was post-lockout.

I understand Brodeur isn't getting much respect, but that's in part because he stinks right now. Spare me the bit about the offense - yes, the offense is horrendous. But Brodeur hasn't been that much better. He's got 3 shutouts this year. Let's see what his stats are like in non-shutout games:

3.55 GAA, .868 SV%

Those are Darren Pang numbers. Yes, I understand that taking out his shutouts is a form of data snooping.

I worry about the team going forward. Right now, the Devils cannot think that Brodeur can play more than 40 games next year. They absolutely must get a guy who can fill that other time. When it comes time for Brodeur to retire, then Devils fans will remember the good times, but it's tough to remember those times when he's playing as poorly as he is.

It's not too tough to remember if you were a fan during the old days and look back on the goaltender situation pre-Marty, and recall when the Devils were a middling .500-or-so team struggling to make the playoffs. You admitted in previous posts that you didn't start following the team until '96, so clearly you don't have this perspective. But those who don't or can't remember the old days only need to take a gander at many other teams' goalie issues (hello Flyers?) while Marty played to realize that they saw something pretty damned special...a guy who not only played all of his games with one team, but who played them at or near peak performance for almost all of that time. Yeah, everything associated with the Devils is pretty hard to take right now, as they're just about unwatchable, and Marty is as much a factor in the Devils' poor play as anyone, but I don't think that means respect for an all-time great who was actually proud to wear a Devils jersey gets thrown right out the window.

Edited by Colorado Rockies 1976, 27 December 2010 - 11:09 AM.