67 replies to this topic

[Devilsfan118]

And if you're going to take his declining play at 38 years old as 'proof' that he's a system goalie I'm sorry, that's just insane.

This. But some people are always looking for a reason to diminish his accomplishments. Now more than ever, kick him while he's down I suppose

[DevsMan84]

There's a huge difference between defending his play THIS SEASON and running him out of town on a rail. It's more than just bashing his play, there's many people here with a personal dislike of him.

Yes at times he's got an ego - what big-name player doesn't - and it's probably hurt the team some years the way Cal Ripken hurt the Orioles by his insistence on playing every game when he could have used a rest or Favre by playing when he shouldn't have - but for someone that's accomplished as much as he has he's still down-to-earth considering.

And if you're going to take his declining play at 38 years old as 'proof' that he's a system goalie I'm sorry, that's just insane.

He has been declining since the last cup. I know you will post how many wins and his GAA on the seasons since, but he was helped A TON by the defense during those years. We will never know for sure how good of a goalie he really is, because in his prime he had quite a defense in front of him. Look at the Rags now. They have had over the past few years bad to average defense at best and Henrik has looked pretty good during those years. But since their organization does not insist on playing him 75+ games a season, he will never come close to wins and shutouts like Marty has in his career. Marty for the last few reasons has been in it to pad up his stats and now he is depressed because on this team he can no longer do it. I know he is saying the right things now, but deep down you can tell he is clearly not happy with himself or this team. Look at how he reacted after the last game.

[DevsMan84]

This. But some people are always looking for a reason to diminish his accomplishments. Now more than ever, kick him while he's down I suppose

Acommplishments padded by playing way too many games a season, having a great defense in front of him for a vast majority of his career, and playing for a good part of his career when ties do not exist. He is a great goalie, and I will give you that, but his stats are very padded. His low GAA was easy to get when you have 2-1, 1-1, and 1-0 games druing the late 90's. Why else would you explain he never got a Vezina then when Hasek got them and Marty had superior stats? The GM's are not dumb and they see that Hasek was standing on his head every game while Marty was sitting back enjoying only about 20 shots a game.

[DevsMan84]

He benefited from playing more minutes and playing the shootout? How so? Padding the wins record? He's already surpassed roy's marker with regulation wins alone.

The true beneficiaries of the shootout are the young kids coming in, who'll probably beat marty's record by their mid 30s if they start young and play often. It wouldn't surprise me if someone beats marty's record within the next 20-30 years

And how many games a season did Patrick Roy play? His career high was 68 games. Marty has played in at least 70 games a season 12 times in his career. Kinda easy to pad stats when you play many more friggin games.

[Jerrydevil]

Acommplishments padded by playing way too many games a season, having a great defense in front of him for a vast majority of his career, and playing for a good part of his career when ties do not exist. He is a great goalie, and I will give you that, but his stats are very padded. His low GAA was easy to get when you have 2-1, 1-1, and 1-0 games druing the late 90's. Why else would you explain he never got a Vezina then when Hasek got them and Marty had superior stats? The GM's are not dumb and they see that Hasek was standing on his head every game while Marty was sitting back enjoying only about 20 shots a game.

If you want to say that Hasek was better than Brodeur, I have no problem with you. You need to give Brodeur more credit for sustained excellence though.

[DevsMan84]

If you want to say that Hasek was better than Brodeur, I have no problem with you. You need to give Brodeur more credit for sustained excellence though.

But is that sustained excellence from the system? Hasek sustained excellence on some pretty underwhelming Buffalo teams and defense but always kept them competative. Just saying it is hard to tell if Brodeur is THAT GOOD of a goalie when in his prime, he was on a Devils team that could have had a crash test dummy in net and still win.

[NJDevs4978]

And how many games a season did Patrick Roy play? His career high was 68 games. Marty has played in at least 70 games a season 12 times in his career. Kinda easy to pad stats when you play many more friggin games.

Oh please...he gets no credit for being durable enough to play 70+ games a year? And how many Vezinas has he won since Hasek, three, four? Along with three Cups, one (well really two) gold medals I'd say that's more than enough proof of his excellence.

His low GAA was easy to get when you have 2-1, 1-1, and 1-0 games druing the late 90's.

And how about his still-low GAA and save percentage the last five years with declining defenses? I'm sorry, no defense with Colin White and Mike Mottau as your top pairing can be considered elite. There's no way the Devils three years ago should have even made the playoffs and they wound up with home-ice in the first round. Where Marty's overplaying has hurt has been in April since the lockout but before the lockout he could play 70+ and go through a playoff run just fine.

Edited by NJDevs4978, 03 January 2011 - 05:51 PM.

[Jerrydevil]

But is that sustained excellence from the system? Hasek sustained excellence on some pretty underwhelming Buffalo teams and defense but always kept them competative. Just saying it is hard to tell if Brodeur is THAT GOOD of a goalie when in his prime, he was on a Devils team that could have had a crash test dummy in net and still win.

Why are you hung up on Hasek? He and Brodeur aren't the only goalies to play hockey in the past 20 years. My point is this: Plug in Chris Osgood. Does he have the same career Brodeur did? I don't think so.

[CarpathianForest]

The GM's are not dumb and they see that Hasek was standing on his head every game while Marty was sitting back enjoying only about 20 shots a game.

What you really need to concern yourself with is how other goalies, guys who actually play the game, regard Brodeur and I'm pretty sure he is universally regarded by all active goaltenders as one of the best.

NJDevs has a point. Last year the Devils D was regarded as "The No Name Defense" and they weren't all that hot. Remember Martin was out for a good portion of the season, but Brodeur still managed to be a big factor in our wins. I personally think he began to decline sharply during the Olympics.

Edited by CarpathianForest, 03 January 2011 - 05:54 PM.

[LucifersDog]

There are the defenders of Marty and the non defenders. Does it matter? When confronted today with the coach's decision what would you expect Marty to say? I would expect the politically correct statement like he gave. We need to realizes that Marty is done regardless if Marty's ego will accept that. He has been failing for the past couple of years. The signal to him was the Olympics and he didn't accept that choice so he came back to the Devils to prove something in the remaining games and all he proved was that Canada was correct.

Edited by LucifersDog, 03 January 2011 - 06:37 PM.

[Devil Dan 56]

So.... Marty was only good because he had an amazing defense and system.

See, he won Vezinas after all those amazing defensmen left but that's only because he played so many games. You see, he played a lot of games with a less talented team and won a Vezina... product of the system.. See??

Yep. I don't get it either.

[BlueSkirt]

But is that sustained excellence from the system? Hasek sustained excellence on some pretty underwhelming Buffalo teams and defense but always kept them competative. Just saying it is hard to tell if Brodeur is THAT GOOD of a goalie when in his prime, he was on a Devils team that could have had a crash test dummy in net and still win.

i've been watching the devs since 87, and I would never describe it this way. Without question Brodeur's play enabled his D to play the way they did. One strength produced another strength. Neither would have been as good without the other. That not rose-colored glasses, that just the way it was.
Universally the greatest in te game lauded him with praise and selected him to help Canada win its first Olympic Gold in a half-century.
Yeah, its hard to tell if he was that good !

[DaneykoIsGod]

i've been watching the devs since 87, and I would never describe it this way. Without question Brodeur's play enabled his D to play the way they did. One strength produced another strength. Neither would have been as good without the other. That not rose-colored glasses, that just the way it was.

Very, very well-put.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Acommplishments padded by playing way too many games a season, having a great defense in front of him for a vast majority of his career, and playing for a good part of his career when ties do not exist. He is a great goalie, and I will give you that, but his stats are very padded. His low GAA was easy to get when you have 2-1, 1-1, and 1-0 games druing the late 90's. Why else would you explain he never got a Vezina then when Hasek got them and Marty had superior stats? The GM's are not dumb and they see that Hasek was standing on his head every game while Marty was sitting back enjoying only about 20 shots a game.

I've already proven you wrong on the 2-1, 1-0, 1-1 nonsense in another thread, but go ahead, keep posting myths. And the defense he's had in front him post-lockout has hardly been great...yet he managed to match or exceed his career norms for much of that stretch.

The one thing I'll give you was Hasek was the best pure puck-stopper the game has ever seen. He had a six-year stretch where he posted a .930 save%. That's just obscene. Hasek also got a very late start to his career, which hurt his overall win totals.

Obviously you've got an agenda when it comes to Brodeur and you'll put a negative spin on whatever you have to to make Brodeur sound less impressive than he was. I don't really get it, but whatever makes you happy.

[Pepperkorn]

I think Marty has been fine enough. Sure a few problems but he hasnt' caught a break and no one is there to buy him ANY space. Frankly - he DOES need a little help out there. You need space and no one is giving him a fargin' inch f space to be who he is. You all know who he is -- it's annoying he's God or selfish pig, wonderfully grounded superstar or over-confident slacker who's decided he's won enough. Ridiculous -- no one every sees just the clear amazing player that lies in between.

The last thing that will help him turn it around (yeah -- or even WANT to ) is fans booing. and what is he supposed to say? Yeah, I guess I just suck now! I've been mastering the art of stinking up the joint! Any award for that? that's the stat I want to bust wide open now - the stinking rotten goal tending stat 'cause I'm just a selfish kind of guy!

You're all ingrates.


Does this board EVER get sick of pointing fingers? I'm having a pretty nice time all things considered watching hockey this year. the only thing that sucks beyond all belief is the Flyers doing well... I'm praying PRAYING for a choke. Guys I just really hate Pronger... I mean so much. I'm not angry motivated rage -- but whipped dog well f**k you then trauma-ed out.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

He has been declining since the last cup.

Marty's save% by season, up to the '03 Cup win: .917, .906, .910, .906, .906, .914
For the same amount of regular seasons since: .917, .911, .922, .920, .916, .916

There goes another myth.

[DaneykoIsGod]

Marty's save% by season, up to the '03 Cup win: .917, .906, .910, .906, .906, .914
For the same amount of regular seasons since: .917, .911, .922, .920, .916, .916

There goes another myth.

BOOYA!

[njdevilz4]

Take Pippen and the other supporting cast away from Jordan and do you think he still wins all those titles? I can't believe people are questioning whether Brodeur is that good or not. Yeah, he's been lucky to be part of an amazing organization and surrounded by great players but I don't buy the argument that any goalie could have led us to those Cups. With a completely healthy lineup and everyone else playing with some heart his game raises too. He's a vicim of this dump of a season, but that doesn't take away that he's the best to ever play.

[Pepperkorn]

Marty is no Michael Jordan. Personally while not to the same degree I believe the Devils would have succeeded without Marty -- and they never excelled the way Jordan had the Bulls going... just never. I HATE those comparisons - that's why you're all so up in arms now

It's always been a team effort with Marty's success, not so much with Jordan. That's all it needs to be though - he doesn't HAVE to steal every game.

[Jerrydevil]

Marty is no Michael Jordan. Personally while not to the same degree I believe the Devils would have succeeded without Marty -- and they never excelled the way Jordan had the Bulls going... just never. I HATE those comparisons - that's why you're all so up in arms now

It's always been a team effort with Marty's success, not so much with Jordan. That's all it needs to be though - he doesn't HAVE to steal every game.

Marty IS Michael Jordan in that Marty is among the greatest players to ever play his position (OK, Jordan is probably the greatest), and like Jordan he needed other good players to do their job in order to win. That's team sports, baby.