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I've had enough...A longwinded look/critique of this DEBACLE ON IC


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#1 ThreeCups

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 02:31 PM

I stayed optimistic like many of you here thinking "we will get through this" earlier on in the season. I thought we were just going through a rough stretch and would end up fine. By mid November I knew it was all over and that we were headed for a disastrous season. When the local NFL teams had more wins than the Devils on Thanksgiving, you should have known it was well over. Many will agree with some points, and many will disagree. I am not claiming to be a know it all or anything like that, but this is how I feel about our current situation. So where to begin with this?

It was revealed that LL asked Jamie to waive his NTC in camp and he declined. I am sure this did wonders for Jamie's game. I am not making excuses for him, but that must be a sh!tty feeling know the team you are captain of wanted to ship you out before the season even started. Lou should have pushed hard to trade him in the OFFSEASON; ditto with Rolston. I am sure he put some feelers out, but after we signed Kovy one or both of these guys HAD to be shipped out PRIOR to the opening faceoff of Game #1. Both of these players knew they had bullseyes on their back going into the season, and maybe they felt the pressure of it.

We start the season with a heartbreaking loss to Dallas and it was all downhill ever since. A quick summary (I am doing this quickly so I may be forgetting a few items and may mix up the order of events slightly): Salvador gets a concussion that likely will end his career, Devils start off the season in a slump, our best player Zach Parise goes down with a long term injury, we put Rolston on waivers and nobody wants him, our rookie coach Johnny Mac becomes the sacrificial lamb, we being back Jacques who everybody wanted gone last season, we put Brian Rolston on re-entry waivers and STILL nobody wants him, Jacques says we now have "co-starting goaltenders". What a sh!tshow of a season.

I thought Mac should have either been A. Fired much earlier in the season while it was still salvageable (which I was originally hoping for- I believed a turnaround was possible under the right coach), or B. Given the entire season to see how he finished. Firing him on December 23 was completely pointless. What made it even more dumbfounding was that we went BACK IN TIME to bring Jacques back, KNOWING that HE WOULD NOT BE BACK NEXT SEASON! Why?!?!? If Lou wanted Mac gone so badly, he should have had the phone glued to his ear looking for a LONG TERM replacement for Mac. sh!tcanning him 2 days before Christmas and bringing Jacques in made no sense to me. The season was already gone at that point, and we are not building any system of sorts for future seasons. I think Lou has been the best GM in hockey for years, but I think his career should be coming to a close soon. Whether he does it own his own accord, or is nudged by Vanderbeek, it has to happen relatively soon.

Now fast forward to early January, and Lemaire is BENCHING TEDENBY?!? To me this is completely unacceptable. Tedenby earned his stripes (or should I say horns) in my opinion long ago. He has shown an offensive flair and is a BIG piece of the future of our organization. Let this kid learn on the job and get some experience for next year. Benching him is only going to mess with his confidence and curb his development.

OFFSEASON (or sooner for some of these) AGENDA:
-Find Long term coach
-Find Long term replacement for Marty who he can play 25-30 games/season for a year or 2 while learning from #30
-Find Rollie a new home.
-Reconstruct our defense. We need a PMD as we all know, and we need to create an identity as a whole on the blueline.


I still love this team, go to games, and watch on TV. It is just becoming more frustrating than ever. The future is bright with Zach (if he resigns), Zajac, Tedenby, Josefson, Merrill, Henrique, Taormina, Urbom, our upcoming lottery pick. We will return to the level that we as Devils' fans have been accustom to. I am confident of that. I just hope that we do not go through a season like this one again for a long, long time. The new era of New Jersey Devils hockey should be an exciting one for years to come. :cheers:

EDIT: I forgot that I wouldn't be opposed to shipping out Greene....

Edited by ThreeCups, 08 January 2011 - 02:33 PM.

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#2 elias2600

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:50 PM

I pretty much agree with everything here.
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#3 Quinn01

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 03:59 PM

If I didnt know better, I would think that you read my mind. :giggle:
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#4 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 04:42 PM

It was revealed that LL asked Jamie to waive his NTC in camp and he declined. I am sure this did wonders for Jamie's game. I am not making excuses for him, but that must be a sh!tty feeling know the team you are captain of wanted to ship you out before the season even started. Lou should have pushed hard to trade him in the OFFSEASON; ditto with Rolston. I am sure he put some feelers out, but after we signed Kovy one or both of these guys HAD to be shipped out PRIOR to the opening faceoff of Game #1. Both of these players knew they had bullseyes on their back going into the season, and maybe they felt the pressure of it.


We do not know to what extent Lou was working to look for trades in the off-season. It's not likely there was much, if any, interest especially given that everybody was hating us for the Kovy debacle. It's possible he had a few leads, and that's why he asked Langs in camp to waive it but he got turned down so there's really nothing he could do. Nobody wants Rolston. You can't make trades if there are no takers.


I thought Mac should have either been A. Fired much earlier in the season while it was still salvageable (which I was originally hoping for- I believed a turnaround was possible under the right coach), or B. Given the entire season to see how he finished. Firing him on December 23 was completely pointless. What made it even more dumbfounding was that we went BACK IN TIME to bring Jacques back, KNOWING that HE WOULD NOT BE BACK NEXT SEASON! Why?!?!?


Agreed that Mac probably should have been gone earlier but Lou really wanted this to work itself out. After all the time Mac waited for this job, Lou felt he owed it to him to try and ride it out. He himself admitted that he was too patient this year and probably should have acted a little earlier. It's nice to say that we should have let Mac stay on for the whole year, but we were crashing and burning soooo badly. We got blown out like 3-4 games in a row, had absolutely nothing going for us. The team was playing with no interest whatsoever and Mac was out of answers. He had to be replaced. You can't just leave him at his post for half a season while the players put forth no effort and tune him out completely.

Bringing in a new coach like a Haviland or whoever else is the fad choice this time would be the most pointless thing at this stage. The team is trash and is going to be blown up by the deadline (hopefully). Playoffs are out of reach. Why try to go on the coaching search in the middle of the season to bring in the new "long term" guy in the middle of a lost year? Lemaire is experienced and can get us through to the end of the season. Though we are still losing, at least we can agree we have competed better of late and it's a good bet that some wins will start to come our way soon. He can get us to the end of the year, and then the real coach search can begin (yet again) in earnest for a coach for the future. That way, the new guy can start with a clean slate, and not half to deal with this mess of a half season.


Now fast forward to early January, and Lemaire is BENCHING TEDENBY?!? To me this is completely unacceptable. Tedenby earned his stripes (or should I say horns) in my opinion long ago. He has shown an offensive flair and is a BIG piece of the future of our organization. Let this kid learn on the job and get some experience for next year. Benching him is only going to mess with his confidence and curb his development.


Obviously there is something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about here. Maybe he has been lackadaisical in practice or there's something about his game that Lemaire wants him to work on first. I agree that it's not good for him to sit out for too long and I would expect that if he doesn't see action either tomorrow or the next game, he should be sent down to play for Albany. I'm not going to kill Lemaire for sitting him, even though I think he should be playing over Palmeiri (who is too slow). We'll see what happens here. I'd love to have Tedenby playing instead of Rolston too but we are stuck with that pile of crap and if we want any chance to up his value and get rid of him, he has to play.


OFFSEASON (or sooner for some of these) AGENDA:
-Find Long term coach
-Find Long term replacement for Marty who he can play 25-30 games/season for a year or 2 while learning from #30
-Find Rollie a new home.
-Reconstruct our defense. We need a PMD as we all know, and we need to create an identity as a whole on the blueline.



No argument here.
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#5 NJDevs4978

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 06:15 PM

If Lou wanted Mac gone so badly, he should have had the phone glued to his ear looking for a LONG TERM replacement for Mac. sh!tcanning him 2 days before Christmas and bringing Jacques in made no sense to me.


Problem with that is the 'long-term' solutions aren't available from other teams' staffs in midseason (Muller, Haviland, etc). That's why I was saying all along it was pointless to fire Mac, even more so when we did. Because the replacement was either going to be Lemaire, Larry or Lou and none of them would have been a solution beyond this season.
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#6 sundstrom

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 07:07 PM

Problem with that is the 'long-term' solutions aren't available from other teams' staffs in midseason (Muller, Haviland, etc). That's why I was saying all along it was pointless to fire Mac, even more so when we did. Because the replacement was either going to be Lemaire, Larry or Lou and none of them would have been a solution beyond this season.


more of this group will be here than not and that's why mac had to go. he couldn't get it done with them now - why was that going to change? lemaire made total sense - he was on the payroll already and had a good understanding of the players he was dealing with. lou needed to start thinking for next year the second he decided mac couldn't get it done. getting lemaire in who, while his methods don't always rub players right, still is regarded as a good teacher could get these guys back in better habits. then lou started with the roster purge. langenbrunner, arnott, greene, hedberg will move along. perhaps zubrus or clarkson too if someone gives the right (read any) offer for them. he'll continue to try and move rolston in any possible way. included in these steps should be getting a sense with the younger kids what they can do and what their roles will be for next year.
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#7 ThreeCups

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 09:27 AM

Bringing in a new coach like a Haviland or whoever else is the fad choice this time would be the most pointless thing at this stage. The team is trash and is going to be blown up by the deadline (hopefully). Playoffs are out of reach. Why try to go on the coaching search in the middle of the season to bring in the new "long term" guy in the middle of a lost year?



I would have like a long term replacement coach as soon as possible because even thought his year is lost, we could have built towards next season. Playing in a new system perhaps, identify roles, see what line combos we can get to work etc....

Problem with that is the 'long-term' solutions aren't available from other teams' staffs in midseason (Muller, Haviland, etc). That's why I was saying all along it was pointless to fire Mac, even more so when we did. Because the replacement was either going to be Lemaire, Larry or Lou and none of them would have been a solution beyond this season.


I agree with that. Maybe this summer LL will put out some feelers and see who we can steal from another team.....
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#8 coldply123

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:32 AM

The one thing I continue to disagree with a few people, including Triumph is that this is just a one year bump in the road.

I don't think we will be this bad next season, but even with Parise back (or possibly not if he won't sign long-term) this team isn't going to be drastically better than what it is now.

We're stuck with Brodeur for another year. And we still have significant money locked up into Rolston for all of next year and Elias and White for another couple seasons. Also, a lot of our younger players haven't gotten a significant amount of playing time to judge/predict how they develop going forward. Even if Tedenby and Josefson (who has barely played) are giving Top 6 positions, say 2nd liners, it's really unfair to think they'll be able to put up the kind of production this team would need. Even guys like Urbom are going to need a year or so to adjust to the NHL.

I hate to say it, but I think having a .500 hockey team next season is going to be a stretch, probably looking at just under .500. We'll be better, but probably only marginally so.
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#9 franconianhell

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:35 AM

I agree with you, good post that points out basically the whole things that went wrong.

Tedenby has already shown that he is on the way to becoming a good NHL player, benching him has just no sense. I hope he'll return soon, and can develop a little more. He deserves it!

With the marty thing, i think it's best to bring a young / or a still young but already experienced goalie in. Let him learn from marty, and give marty a little less starts in the next / on-going season. Let's face it, sooner or later he'll end his career anyway!
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#10 Dead

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:38 AM

Well I have set my DVR to record the Dallas game to see how Langs plays in tonight's game. Thank god for Center Ice ;)

If he plays out of his mind, then he quit after being asked to waive his NTC. Can not blame him too much however.
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#11 ThreeCups

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 10:44 AM

The one thing I continue to disagree with a few people, including Triumph is that this is just a one year bump in the road.

I don't think we will be this bad next season, but even with Parise back (or possibly not if he won't sign long-term) this team isn't going to be drastically better than what it is now.

We're stuck with Brodeur for another year. And we still have significant money locked up into Rolston for all of next year and Elias and White for another couple seasons. Also, a lot of our younger players haven't gotten a significant amount of playing time to judge/predict how they develop going forward. Even if Tedenby and Josefson (who has barely played) are giving Top 6 positions, say 2nd liners, it's really unfair to think they'll be able to put up the kind of production this team would need. Even guys like Urbom are going to need a year or so to adjust to the NHL.

I hate to say it, but I think having a .500 hockey team next season is going to be a stretch, probably looking at just under .500. We'll be better, but probably only marginally so.


I am hoping that with a few personnel changes and a clean slate, this team will play alot more inspired and at least make the playoffs next year. I believe they will...this team still isn't as bad as our record I do not think at this point. We have lost a good amount of close games. We are a bad team, yes. But one of the worst in the history of the NHL? You wouldn't have thought so watching yesterday's game. The second half of this season will tell us alot about going forward....
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#12 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:47 AM

Warning: Complete Rambling Speculation Ahead

In my opinion, there was some sort of a cancer growing in the locker room for the past few years. Brent Sutter saw it, I think, and Jacques Lemaire came in as it reached its tipping point. Johnny Mac came in to a locker room that had fallen to pieces already and was too much of a rookie coach to have any idea how to deal with it. His being a players coach and young and inexperienced allowed the problems to get so serious that they completely erased 20 years of team culture.

I don't think that Kovalchuk or his signing debacle had anything to do with the root cause of this, although the signing debacle and its aftershocks certainly contributed.

In many ways I wonder if Brent Sutter gave Jamie Langenbrunner the captaincy because he was already starting a locker room revolt and Brent thought he could pre-empt and channel it. I have strong doubts that Sutter really was as homesick as he was irritated with the inner workings of the locker room even then.

If you go back even further you see signs of this growing even while Julien was here. I really hope that Jamie leaving was the solution to the issue, and to be perfectly frank, I haven't seen this team put forth as consistent an effort as they have for the past 5 periods of hockey (granted in losing efforts) in a long while. There was a bit of concern in me that White was part of this cancer and I'm pretty sure he was in the group, but he doesn't have enough of a brain to continue leading the revolt in Jamie's absence so he should revert back into a loyal soldier.

At the end of the day, the question is who will make their stamp on the culture of this team's locker room. To all of our outside appearances it seems that Zach Parise is that perfect blend of good loyal soldier player and team leader personality. We've seen reports that this team is battling against the mentality that the team knows better than the coaching staff. In that regard Patrik Elias is also guilty. He has, however, always played the game the coaches instructed even when he disagreed with it publicly. That is the important thing.

The team needs to put forth the coach's game plan right or wrong. If the team follows the coach's game plan and does poorly then it can be seen that the coaching staff is incompetent and needs to be changed. Unfortunately the opposite seems to have been the case for the past year. The team has been following its own game plan and ignoring that of the coaching staff with poor results. Hopefully that culture has been successfully rooted out with the trading of Jamie Langenbrunner. If so, the healing can begin as a new culture is born in the room.
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#13 coldply123

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:47 AM

I am hoping that with a few personnel changes and a clean slate, this team will play alot more inspired and at least make the playoffs next year. I believe they will...this team still isn't as bad as our record I do not think at this point. We have lost a good amount of close games. We are a bad team, yes. But one of the worst in the history of the NHL? You wouldn't have thought so watching yesterday's game. The second half of this season will tell us alot about going forward....


As an #8 seed, maybe. I think you are overly optimistic. I don't see where a lot of this influx is going to come from. We don't have a lot of cap flexibility next season. I think too many fans are expecting the Tedenbys, Josefsons, Urboms of the world to come in like gangbusters and that's just really fantastical thinking and way too much too expect from guys who havent even put up a half season of NHL time combined yet. Add in the fact that the defense is still going to be largely the same and we're going to have an aging and declining Brodeur, it doesnt look good.

Again, I don't see the influx of talent and mix necessary. Who is going to be the 2nd line center? Josefson, Henrique? How is Lou going to bring in a young goalie to share time with Brodeur. Will Lou be able to pile up enough picks (2nd rounders and the like) to perhaps move around as chips at the draft or in training camp for guys? Maybe.

This team has a ton of questions and a lot of issues to sort out. Unfortunately I think it's going to take longer than a lot of fans expect.
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#14 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 12:51 PM

the second line center next year is obviously patrik elias. as he should have been this year.
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#15 Jas0nMacIsaac

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:13 PM

the second line center next year is obviously patrik elias. as he should have been this year.


He needs some work with Adam Oates on faceoffs. Everyone of our natural centers are 52% of better while Elias is around 43%.
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#16 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:27 PM

He needs some work with Adam Oates on faceoffs. Everyone of our natural centers are 52% of better while Elias is around 43%.


josefson or henrique would probably be around 43% too. elias is never going to be good at faceoffs - what's more important is his ability to be a center.
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#17 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 01:31 PM

josefson or henrique would probably be around 43% too. elias is never going to be good at faceoffs - what's more important is his ability to be a center.


Y'know, I remember an exchange last year when you were claiming that Elias couldn't play center because of his faceoffs and that it would cost NJ so much on zone positions and whatnot that he should never play it.
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#18 sundstrom

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:06 PM

Y'know, I remember an exchange last year when you were claiming that Elias couldn't play center because of his faceoffs and that it would cost NJ so much on zone positions and whatnot that he should never play it.


not to speak for someone else, but i think you are thinking of me as there's no bigger proponent of the value of faceoffs than me. tri would often argue with me that it just wasn't important enough to put a guy like josefson who might be better in too important of a role.
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“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
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#19 Triumph

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 11:21 PM

Y'know, I remember an exchange last year when you were claiming that Elias couldn't play center because of his faceoffs and that it would cost NJ so much on zone positions and whatnot that he should never play it.


this is possible, in fact it's even probable. what i've said, and what i don't think i've really deviated from, is that under 40% on faceoffs is unacceptable. most of the time on this board, i've said that faceoffs are not important. i read an article last year that demonstrated the 'importance' of d-zone faceoffs, and so i altered my stance a bit - winning defensive zone faceoffs is important, and the difference between a 40% guy and a 60% guy who plays 20 minutes a game might be something like 6 goals over the course of a season. still, all in all, faceoffs aren't overly important and as long as elias can tread water, the rest of his game at the center position is so much better than anyone we have.

Edited by Triumph, 09 January 2011 - 11:23 PM.

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#20 MantaRay

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:35 AM

.

The future is bright with Zach (if he resigns), Zajac, Tedenby, Josefson, Merrill, Henrique, Taormina, Urbom, our upcoming lottery pick. We will return to the level that we as Devils' fans have been accustom to. I am confident of that. I just hope that we do not go through a season like this one again for a long, long time. The new era of New Jersey Devils hockey should be an exciting one for years to come. :cheers:



Respectfully disagree.

The future is not very bright and you will see more growing pains than success at the Rock for the next few years.

First off your assuming Lou is going to pick the right coach and also allow him the patience to build something. The new coach as well as the players have to discover and define their own "new" identity.

The defense has to be scrapped and completely rebuild (regretfully I don't expect Sal to play for the Devils again).

Forwards will be an two year audition to see who will if any of the kids can actually be legit players in the NHL (not too sure about most of them). With the exception of Elias, we have no one on this team that can play a complete NHL level game that younger players to build off of.

This team is a minimum three years from even making the #8 spot for the playoffs.
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