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I've had enough...A longwinded look/critique of this DEBACLE ON IC


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#21 HellOnICE

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:44 AM

Respectfully disagree.

The future is not very bright and you will see more growing pains than success at the Rock for the next few years.

First off your assuming Lou is going to pick the right coach and also allow him the patience to build something. The new coach as well as the players have to discover and define their own "new" identity.

The defense has to be scrapped and completely rebuild (regretfully I don't expect Sal to play for the Devils again).

Forwards will be an two year audition to see who will if any of the kids can actually be legit players in the NHL (not too sure about most of them). With the exception of Elias, we have no one on this team that can play a complete NHL level game that younger players to build off of.

This team is a minimum three years from even making the #8 spot for the playoffs.


You're wrong. I see the future. If we keep Parise, Zajac, and of course Kovy and make doable improvements on the backend - we can be in the 8th spot next year for sure.
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#22 peteyvegas

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:53 AM

I think Lou hired Jaques again just to see who has the desire to play. He likes to work them hard. You can tell when a player is not showing effort and rolling his eyes at workouts and I think Lou knows that. We may be looking at the last of this core team as we know it.
Meanwhile, resting Tedenby from time to time is a good idea. Keeps the desire pumping. Young players (especially small ones)are still getting their NHL legs.
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#23 MantaRay

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:57 AM

You're wrong. I see the future. If we keep Parise, Zajac, and of course Kovy and make doable improvements on the backend - we can be in the 8th spot next year for sure.



Unlikely, but we shall see.

It's a pretty big "IF" for Parise to sign here long term. If Parise goes, regardless of how well he plays defensively, "fans" will call for Zajac's demotion when his numbers continuously decrease year-to-year.

Kovy's star will continue to fade playing in the same division with the likes of Philly, Pittsburgh and now the Rangers.
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#24 Triumph

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:16 PM

You're wrong. I see the future. If we keep Parise, Zajac, and of course Kovy and make doable improvements on the backend - we can be in the 8th spot next year for sure.


we can be higher than 8th. a lot of it comes down to goaltending. there's still half a season left so let's see if brodeur can't play better. last night he was pretty good but he let in a stoppable shot - hard to win when that happens.
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#25 HellOnICE

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:19 PM

we can be higher than 8th. a lot of it comes down to goaltending. there's still half a season left so let's see if brodeur can't play better. last night he was pretty good but he let in a stoppable shot - hard to win when that happens.


Tri - I think he was better last night - but I don't know. I felt like he was more lucky than good last night. I felt rebounds were still out there, still a little bit uncontrolled. We'll see.
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#26 devlman

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:23 PM

We also need a Number 1 centerman.
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#27 CarpathianForest

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:24 PM

Zajac/Parise/Kovy line won't work. Kovy needs a playmaking center to work with and Zajac isn't that type of center. That being said there is truth to what Manta is saying. I don't think we're three years off but we may be another season out of the playoffs as we see who works and who doesn't. The smart thing is to get the younger players in. We've spent too much time these past few seasons signing veteran players who have and haven't panned out. Our cap problems are going to force into playing more Albany guys next year which IMO is a good thing.
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#28 Triumph

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:25 PM

Tri - I think he was better last night - but I don't know. I felt like he was more lucky than good last night. I felt rebounds were still out there, still a little bit uncontrolled. We'll see.


the devils allowed a ton of scoring chances last night. they really didn't play that well.
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#29 Pepperkorn

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:35 PM

Just since I'm off on every post and stuff -- I love this thread -- we can agree or disagree but it's hashing things out. It's heartfelt and not so trite, you know? I have felt no need to participate because this is accomplishing something, you know? Even manta being an a$$hole is OK because it's not convoluting any problem. Some guys can see through stuff and if they can't fvck 'em. But OTHER things like blanket negativity with no (ridiculous) solution offered up are immediate fog machines gumming up the works.

When you offer up a solution you immediately prioritize your comment based on the solution. "Kovalchuk needs to be traded" well there's a laugher - cross it right off the list. "Lou making the Kovachuk deal is symptomatic of the breakdown in decision making" SUCKS. FIt's a blanket unsubstiable statement with no resolution offered. You've effectively gummed up the conversation created an immediate impasse and fvcked ANY direction the team could take to move forward.... They have to just stand there frozen trying to figure out how they are fvcked.

the negativity creates excuses for inaction. It's not the Kovalchuk deal it's the Manta-like response that bred this season. Any dumbass team can succeed at any time. it's just attitude. And Mant-alikes fvcked with the attitude and contributed GREATLY to this mess.

I've lived enough to know. Food for thought SUCKS! as does playing Devils advocate.
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#30 ThreeCups

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:25 PM

You're wrong. I see the future. If we keep Parise, Zajac, and of course Kovy and make doable improvements on the backend - we can be in the 8th spot next year for sure.


+1

Manta you are insane
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#31 ThreeCups

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:28 PM

Zajac/Parise/Kovy line won't work. Kovy needs a playmaking center to work with and Zajac isn't that type of center. That being said there is truth to what Manta is saying. I don't think we're three years off but we may be another season out of the playoffs as we see who works and who doesn't. The smart thing is to get the younger players in. We've spent too much time these past few seasons signing veteran players who have and haven't panned out. Our cap problems are going to force into playing more Albany guys next year which IMO is a good thing.


I would be surprised if we are not in the playoffs next season. I expect this team to be alot more competitive, and compile more wins in the second half of the season.
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#32 ThreeCups

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 01:30 PM

Unlikely, but we shall see.

It's a pretty big "IF" for Parise to sign here long term. If Parise goes, regardless of how well he plays defensively, "fans" will call for Zajac's demotion when his numbers continuously decrease year-to-year.

Kovy's star will continue to fade playing in the same division with the likes of Philly, Pittsburgh and now the Rangers.


You are reallllllllllllllllllllllllly basking in the subpar Kovy season huh??

Edited by ThreeCups, 10 January 2011 - 01:30 PM.

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#33 MantaRay

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 02:00 PM

+1

Manta you are insane



And you my friend are just delusional.

You are reallllllllllllllllllllllllly basking in the subpar Kovy season huh??


The first of many.
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#34 devlman

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 03:05 PM

The first of many.


Ranger fans also like to bask in and celebrate our team's failures. Dont do that.
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#35 MantaRay

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 03:25 PM

Ranger fans also like to bask in and celebrate our team's failures. Dont do that.


I am not basking in our team's failure. Sadly, the Rangers are playing more like the old Devils than we are.
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#36 Pepperkorn

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:08 PM

I am not basking in our team's failure. Sadly, the Rangers are playing more like the old Devils than we are.

Everyone is.

I was thinking that. Hockey is actually pretty great nowadays. I'm sort of a poor sport being all cranky because my favorite team -- the ones who played hockey the best aren't now! :evilcry:

Don't you HATE THAT? That "Hey, good game nice play" when you stop on a random hockey game --- and you slowly register: it's the Rangers or the Flyers. :puke: Makes me sick :giggle: but it was what I've always said I wanted for hockey.
:evilcry:


Manta -- I just ask you not keep posting the teams flaws and start thinking of ways to fix them. I even get that we feel the same way and all :rant: and it's ALMOST <_< I write ALMOST <_< funny. But I just can't find humor. and I get I'm not supposed to.... you know? I get it. I do....
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#37 MantaRay

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:26 PM

Manta -- I just ask you not keep posting the teams flaws and start thinking of ways to fix them. I even get that we feel the same way and all :rant: and it's ALMOST <_< I write ALMOST <_< funny. But I just can't find humor. and I get I'm not supposed to.... you know? I get it. I do....


Fair enough. But from my experience no listens when you try to suggest ways to fix them. Everyone fixates on the criticism.
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#38 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:40 PM

Fair enough. But from my experience no listens when you try to suggest ways to fix them. Everyone fixates on the criticism.


When the ways you suggest to fix the problem is to take a long term investment that we've worked hard to land (for better or for worse) and pitch him to the curb as failed after one season, then yes, people might respond with hostility. Understand that Ilya Kovalchuk, for better or for worse is part of the fabric of this team for the next decade minimum. That is not going to change at this point. If take that into account as a given, then you can figure for next steps. No matter your distaste for the player, you must understand that he is going to be here for the longhaul.
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#39 ThreeCups

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Posted 10 January 2011 - 10:37 PM

When the ways you suggest to fix the problem is to take a long term investment that we've worked hard to land (for better or for worse) and pitch him to the curb as failed after one season, then yes, people might respond with hostility. Understand that Ilya Kovalchuk, for better or for worse is part of the fabric of this team for the next decade minimum. That is not going to change at this point. If take that into account as a given, then you can figure for next steps. No matter your distaste for the player, you must understand that he is going to be here for the longhaul.


Ilya is obviously not going anywhere. We need to get the right players around him for him to be successful.....

I am hoping next year we see a drastic improvement
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#40 ATLL765

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 03:08 AM

I really think that all this team needs to be a competitive team is a center that works well with Kovy and a defenseman who can make the first pass out of our zone and run the point on the PP.

I believe this can be accomplished this offseason. I think that we can use picks to trade for one or both those players or sign UFAs to fill those slots. According to capgeek, we will have $9,124,168 in cap space assuming we don't acquire any players by then. If you add Salvador's $2.9 mil into that because I don't think he'll return to the NHL, that amounts to $12,024,168. If you believe what they say about the cap next year and they do raise the cap ceiling, we may have another 1-3 million to play with. Lets assume they raise it $2 million to put it in the middle of those predictions.

So now we have $14,024,168 to work with next season assuming we have not traded away anyone who is signed through next season and don't acquire anyone who is. Hopefully Zach will resign before this summer and I believe he will do so for a cap hit of around $6-6.5 million. I don't think he'll ask to be higher paid than Kovy, but I think he will get as much as Elias is, so this puts him between 6 and 6.5. Again, we'll place in in the middle at $6.25 million for the purposes of this speculation.

Now we have $7,774,168 left, which is not bad, but we still need to resign Zharkov and replace Arnott, Mair and Sestito. We should resign Zharkov. He gets $850k, $250k of which is in bonuses right now. Lets say he resigns for the same amount for next year and we either resign Mair+Sestito, bring in UFAs, find someone in the system or a combo of that for $500-600k each. So that's $850k for Zharkov and another $1.1 for two 4th liners for a total of $1.9mil.

Now we have $5,874,168 left. Time for a D man. So we sign a UFA d man for $2.5(don't ask me who, but I'm sure it's not out of the realm of possibility to do so) to play on the 2nd pairing. I think we can find a guy for this kind of money and have him be solid on the 2nd pairing.

Now all that's left is $3,374,168 for a Centerman and to resign some D that hit RFA or UFA at the end of the season. Greene, Corrente, Taormina, Salmela and Fraser's contracts are all up, so we need to resign a few of them. Greene I don't think will be around at this point, but I think the rest will. 2 of these guys will have to be on the NHL roster since they'd be the 7th and 8th dmen. I think all these guys other than Corrente can be had for less than $750k. So lets say we get Tao for $600k, Salmela for $700k, Corrente for $900k and Fraser for $600k. Only two of these guys make the roster, so lets assume it's Tao and Salmela for now, though Corrente could bump out either one depending on his play. Salmela+Tao is $1.3mil total.

Now we have $2,074,168 left for another center. A bit tight, but I think we can find someone for $2mil or less, it could even be Arnott if he'll take that type of money, though we could play Elias at center and use this money on a RW instead, so that would make our roster look like this:

Parise-Zajac-Tedenby
Kovy-UFA-Elias (possibly switch the UFA and Elias)
Prospect-Josefson-Clarkson (Palmieri or Zharkov could fit in on this line as replacements for Clarkson if they're not already the LW here)
Rolston-Pelley-UFA (Clarkson would drop to the 4th line and so could the LW from the 3rd line if they're play drops off)

Elias could easily be the 2nd line center and we could so acquire a center or RW via trade at the draft using picks gained from trading Arnott and Greene, so that line is a big ?.

Volchenkov-Tallinder
White-UFA
Salmela-Taormina (Corrente can be used to replace either of these guys if they're play is subpar)

This doesn't look awful to me. The defense could be better, but Corrente and Taormina I think could improve a lot and move up on the depth chart and handle 2nd pairing minutes, Salmela is also a bit of a wildcard as to how he'll fit in.

If the team looks like this and the UFAs brought in are productive players, I think we'll have a shot at the playoffs. Maybe not a top 4 seed, but definitely could make the playoffs. Also who know what happens at the draft, we might grab a true star that's NHL ready and can fill one of our holes for dirt cheap.

Edited by ATLL765, 11 January 2011 - 03:10 AM.

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