155 replies to this topic

[DevsMan84]

Why is that? What is the common denominator between Atlanta's rise and New Jersey's fall?

Could it be that by dealing their albatross to New Jersey they freed up salary room and where able to stock their team with the quality depth and defense?

Atlanta did not rise after they dealt Kovy last year.

Also, importing half of Chicago's Stanley Cup team helps a bit.

[CarpathianForest]

I had a friend who had a brother who was waaay into wrestling and the movie, The Boiler Room. Everytime I saw him that's all he used to talk about. Eventually it got pretty annoying but I let it go because he had Asperger's Syndrome. Manta Ray is kind of like my friend's brother in that all he talks about is the Kovy Debacle. I don't know if he has Asperger's.

[MantaRay]

I had a friend who had a brother who was waaay into wrestling and the movie, The Boiler Room. Everytime I saw him that's all he used to talk about. Eventually it got pretty annoying but I let it go because he had Asperger's Syndrome. Manta Ray is kind of like my friend's brother in that all he talks about is the Kovy Debacle. I don't know if he has Asperger's.

People ask questions, or make statements: I respond.

Put me on ignore then.

[CarpathianForest]

I'm not putting you on ignore. Sometimes you come in with some good points. It would be nice if you would comment on more than just how everything is the fault of the Kovy deal. There's many threads on this board like the one on Landeskog, but I'm sure you would find a way to get in a jab at Kovy there.

[MantaRay]

Atlanta did not rise after they dealt Kovy last year.

Also, importing half of Chicago's Stanley Cup team helps a bit.

OMG. Please tell me your kidding.

Atlanta is currently the 8th ranked team in the East and 4 points out of first in their division.

Had they kept the albatross they would not have been able to deal with Chicago.

[coldply123]

I think the Devils need to take a real hard look this offseason to try and find out what kind of team they need to enable Kovalchuk to be successful.

First and foremost, the Devils do need a solid offensive defenseman, preferentially a guy with good speed and puck-handling/passing skills. Doesn't have to be a guy who can score a ton of goals.

While defensively in front of the net, the Devils are horrible, they suffer as much from an inability to control the puck effectively/position themselves for outlet passes and breakouts. Teams don't fear a single defenseman on our team from having the puck or passing it out of our own zone. Andy Greene is a back-pairing defenseman getting a ton of minutes and being put in PP, PK, and 5-5 situations.

Also, they need to find out what kind of linemates Kovalchuk needs and what Kovalchuk is most comfortable and effective at doing from an offensive standpoint. While I think Josefson could be the center for Kovalchuk going forward, it's not impossible Lou may have to go out and get another center in the offseason. I havent seen enough chemistry or cohesion between Zajac and Kovalchuk to think it'll work.

Also, I just don't think MacLean was a very good coach. Yeah, Lou left him a few ingredients short of having what he needed, but it's become abundantly clear MacLean had no idea what he was doing or how to handle this group.

There is no question Lou has his work cut out for him.

[DevsMan84]

OMG. Please tell me your kidding.

Atlanta is currently the 8th ranked team in the East and 4 points out of first in their division.

Had they kept the albatross they would not have been able to deal with Chicago.

I meant they did not rise last SEASON (Feb-April 2010) After we dealt Kovy. It was more they traded and aquired half of the Blackhawks in the offseason. They did not use Oduya, Bergfors, or Cromier in that deal, so all that is left is a couple of picks (low on the draft scale since we did well last season).

[CarpathianForest]

OMG. Please tell me your kidding.

Atlanta is currently the 8th ranked team in the East and 4 points out of first in their division.

Had they kept the albatross they would not have been able to deal with Chicago.

C'Mon, Dude, seriosly? This is your argument?!?! Like Atlanta's GM had the foresight(or psychic ability) to know that Chicago would win the Cup and then have to cut salary by getting rid of Ladd, Byfuglien, Eager and Sopel specifically.

[CRASHER]

C'Mon, Dude, seriosly? This is your argument?!?! Like Atlanta's GM had the foresight(or psychic ability) to know that Chicago would win the Cup and then have to cut salary by getting rid of Ladd, Byfuglien, Eager and Sopel specifically.

It was a VERY known fact that the Hawks were against the 8-Ball with this year's cap based on that team and the terrible mistake Tallon had made a few seasons before as GM (hell it got him fired), and it didn't take SUPER GENIUS to walk in and cash out on it....

Credit to them to have the balls to make Ba-Fugly a defenseman though......

[CarpathianForest]

It was a VERY known fact that the Hawks were against the 8-Ball with this year's cap based on that team and the terrible mistake Tallon had made a few seasons before as GM (hell it got him fired), and it didn't take SUPER GENIUS to walk in and cash out on it....

Credit to them to have the balls to make Ba-Fugly a defenseman though......

Point taken, but moving these specific players all to one team, that's another story.

[MantaRay]

C'Mon, Dude, seriosly? This is your argument?!?! Like Atlanta's GM had the foresight(or psychic ability) to know that Chicago would win the Cup and then have to cut salary by getting rid of Ladd, Byfuglien, Eager and Sopel specifically.

C'Mon Carp, your smarter than that. As soon as they signed Hossa they had to start shedding salary. That was a HUGE story last summer.

Edited by MantaRay, 12 January 2011 - 11:10 AM.

[CarpathianForest]

C'Mon Carp, your smarter than that. As soon as they signed Hossa they had to start shedding salary. That was a HUGE story last summer.

See my above post. Atlanta knew that Chi had to shed salary but I don't think they knew they would fall a$$-backwards into a deal with those 4 players involved.

From what I can recall Atlanta tried to keep Kovalchuk, it's not exactly like they were pushing him out the door.

Edited by CarpathianForest, 12 January 2011 - 11:14 AM.

[DevsMan84]

C'Mon Carp, your smarter than that. As soon as they signed Hossa they had to start shedding salary. That was a HUGE story last summer.

Hossa was a part of that, but from what I remember a bigger contributor was Tallon did not (or forgot) to submit offers to his restricted free agents a couple of offseasons back. Cost them quite a pretty penny and pushed them against the cap.

[MantaRay]

See my above post. Atlanta knew that Chi had to shed salary but I don't think they knew they would fall a$$-backwards into a deal with those 4 players involved.

It didn't matter, Atlanta held the cards. Your best GM's exploit the cap problems of other teams: Paul Holmgren essentially fleeced Nashville's by stealing: Hartnell, Timmonen, etc. and then turned around and added Pronger because of Anaheim's cap problems.

[CRASHER]

Point taken, but moving these specific players all to one team, that's another story.

Why make painful trades with a bunch of teams when you can get the talent rape over with in one convenient destination??

[MantaRay]

Hossa was a part of that, but from what I remember a bigger contributor was Tallon did not (or forgot) to submit offers to his restricted free agents a couple of offseasons back. Cost them quite a pretty penny and pushed them against the cap.

This is very true and pretty much pushed them over the edge and cost Tallon his job.

Edited by MantaRay, 12 January 2011 - 11:18 AM.

[CarpathianForest]

My point is that Atlanta's success this season doesn't have everything to do with Kovy leaving. Atlanta couldn't sign Kovy so they dealt him which definitely freed up cap space, I'll give you that. However, Atlanta could have easily just gone out and got some other players from another team and had a sh%tty team. The fact that they got 4 good players from Chicago was just right place/right time. I also seem to remember that many considered Dustin Byfuglien to be a serviceable third liner at best. I was getting poo-pooed on when I was making the case that we should sign him off season. Dustin Byfuglien did well in the SC playoffs but no one knew for sure that his transition back to Defense would be such a boom! It's not like Atlanta targeted these 4 specific guys after they traded Kovy. In addition, I'm sure other players on the Thrashers would protest a bit if you said that Ladd, Eager, Sopel and Byfuglien were responsible solely for Atlanta's success this season. Pavelec, Little, Kane, Antropov, Peverley, Thorburn, Boulton, Slater, Hainsey; these guys were all there when Kovy was there.

[Jerrydevil]

My point is that Atlanta's success this season doesn't have everything to do with Kovy leaving.

It was a hell of a great first step, though, wasn't it?

[CarpathianForest]

It was a hell of a great first step, though, wasn't it?

I don't think shedding Kovy was part of Atlanta's plan to be successful just like I don't think NJ's acquisition of Kovy was part of our plan to be a sh%t-show.

This season is just one big colon cleanse. It was bound to happen sooner than later. How many players do we have left over from the 03 cup run? Three?
It's like a snake shedding skin.

[Triumph]

I think the Devils need to take a real hard look this offseason to try and find out what kind of team they need to enable Kovalchuk to be successful.

First and foremost, the Devils do need a solid offensive defenseman, preferentially a guy with good speed and puck-handling/passing skills. Doesn't have to be a guy who can score a ton of goals.

this guy was taormina, but unfortunately he got injured. the devils have seen the need for a player like this - each year they've brought in a guy from outside the organization who has this skillset (rachunek, salmela, murphy). lou is right not to spend a lot of money on these kinds of players.

While defensively in front of the net, the Devils are horrible, they suffer as much from an inability to control the puck effectively/position themselves for outlet passes and breakouts. Teams don't fear a single defenseman on our team from having the puck or passing it out of our own zone. Andy Greene is a back-pairing defenseman getting a ton of minutes and being put in PP, PK, and 5-5 situations.

i don't think andy greene is a back-pairing defenseman, but he is playing like one this season.

Also, they need to find out what kind of linemates Kovalchuk needs and what Kovalchuk is most comfortable and effective at doing from an offensive standpoint. While I think Josefson could be the center for Kovalchuk going forward, it's not impossible Lou may have to go out and get another center in the offseason. I havent seen enough chemistry or cohesion between Zajac and Kovalchuk to think it'll work.

the center for kovalchuk is on this team right now - patrik elias. whoever coaches the team next year should say from day one of training camp - patrik elias is going to be a center on this team. lemaire can't use kovalchuk and elias together right now because then he's leaving travis zajac to fend for himself among the sh!tboxes. elias is a good defensive player. josefson and kovalchuk together would likely be a disaster in year 1. i think that's where we'll go eventually, but for now, elias is the man for the job.

It was a hell of a great first step, though, wasn't it?

sure it was. that's why they're doing so great this year. oh, they're getting outshot horribly and the only way they've succeeded is because of good fortune on both offense and defense? could have fooled me.