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Devils Midseason Report Card: Team in midst of misery


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#141 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:14 PM

In the context of the discussion it was about fit and roles pre/post Kovy.


So you're saying that Kovalchuk is responsible for Rolston's decline in production because he took his role on the powerplay? Thats funny, because I seem to remember Rolston still being attempted on the powerplay in the past year since Kovalchuk's been here and not being able to hit the broadside of a barn with a shotgun. Was that Kovalchuk's fault too?

Hell, Jason Arnott was getting that spot for a little while and actually SCORING while doing it. How come Brian couldn't?

Edited by NewarkDevil5, 12 January 2011 - 04:15 PM.

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#142 Jerrydevil

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:14 PM

Rowdy, of course there's no guarantee that Parise would stay even if Kovalchuk wasn't here. But if you begin with the premise that Kovalchuk was supposed to put the Devils over the top, then losing our best player doesn't get the team any closer to the ultimate goal -- the Cup.

Let's say that Parise has decided he wants out. Lou trades him for a package that includes mostly picks/prospects. Then we're stuck with Kovalchuk on a team that is waiting for those kids to become NHL players. It makes no sense.
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#143 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:16 PM

In the context of the discussion it was about fit and roles pre/post Kovy

.
A rising tide lifts all boats. The team was rolling the first half of last season so of course Rolston's numbers are going to be better. You're comparing a team that was killing it to a team this year that is getting killed. It's an unfair comparison.

It would be almost impossible for the Devils to be a last-place team with Kovy having a big year.


Ovechkin and Crosby put up pretty impressive numbers while their teams were near the bottom of the pack.
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#144 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:17 PM

Hmm. Why is that?


This is another one of those moments where it's difficult to tell if you're just playing dumb to try to somehow prove a point, or if you really are just this dumb. Surely you understand that players will have better numbers on a better team?
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#145 NewarkDevil5

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:22 PM

In the context of the discussion it was about fit and roles pre/post Kovy.

So you're not following.


Once again, you've decided on a context that fits your argument. It doesn't fit reality, but it fits your argument so you're restricting the context. Comparing Rolston before Ilya got here to Ilya's numbers after getting here is not a direct comparison of the two. Compare how the two have fared on the same team in the same season. They both play in front of the same coaches who decide who is more beneficial to the team to get the ice time. They both play the same position with the same teammates under the same system (or lack thereof this year). Both have very high contracts (yes, Kovalchuk's is higher). That is how you achieve an apples to apples comparison. Not by taking an arbitrary time period from one guy's stats and comparing it to the other guy's.
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#146 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:24 PM

Rowdy, of course there's no guarantee that Parise would stay even if Kovalchuk wasn't here. But if you begin with the premise that Kovalchuk was supposed to put the Devils over the top, then losing our best player doesn't get the team any closer to the ultimate goal -- the Cup.

Let's say that Parise has decided he wants out. Lou trades him for a package that includes mostly picks/prospects. Then we're stuck with Kovalchuk on a team that is waiting for those kids to become NHL players. It makes no sense.


Zach isn't the be all end all key to the cup. Kirk Muller put up some pretty impressive numbers with this club too but he didn't get us to the Stanley Cup. It would suck to lose Zach and I hope we re-sign him but 5mil off the books and 4 1st round picks will help soften the blow.
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#147 Jerrydevil

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:31 PM

Zach isn't the be all end all key to the cup. Kirk Muller put up some pretty impressive numbers with this club too but he didn't get us to the Stanley Cup. It would suck to lose Zach and I hope we re-sign him but 5mil off the books and 4 1st round picks will help soften the blow.


Carpathian, if Lou can turn Zach Parise into gold for this team, then hallelujah. A bunch of first-round picks won't cut it, though ... we need good NHL players to make the Devils' $100 million investment in Kovalchuk mean something.
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#148 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:47 PM

Carpathian, if Lou can turn Zach Parise into gold for this team, then hallelujah. A bunch of first-round picks won't cut it, though ... we need good NHL players to make the Devils' $100 million investment in Kovalchuk mean something.


Understood, but the Devils made their bed with the Kovy deal now they have to sleep in it. If we lose Zach, we lose Zach and we have to do a bit of rebuilding. In the very least we've got an extra 5 mil and 4 1st round picks. Imagine the leverage we would have in trades with a first round pick available, especially 4 1st round picks. I was watching the Rogers feed of the Edmonton game last night and the between period commentators were speculating that Brad Richards may fetch a 2nd round pick(I think he'll get a bit more) at the trade deadline. That's Brad Richards. Now imagine the returns if you can afford to throw in a first rounder.
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#149 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:09 PM

Understood, but the Devils made their bed with the Kovy deal now they have to sleep in it. If we lose Zach, we lose Zach and we have to do a bit of rebuilding. In the very least we've got an extra 5 mil and 4 1st round picks. Imagine the leverage we would have in trades with a first round pick available, especially 4 1st round picks. I was watching the Rogers feed of the Edmonton game last night and the between period commentators were speculating that Brad Richards may fetch a 2nd round pick(I think he'll get a bit more) at the trade deadline. That's Brad Richards. Now imagine the returns if you can afford to throw in a first rounder.


Wait why would Brad Richards get traded at the deadline?
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#150 CarpathianForest

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:12 PM

Wait why would Brad Richards get traded at the deadline?


He was considered trade bait because he's a UFA at the offseason. Dallas didn't really expect to have the season that they are currently having. His salary is 7.8 million so they figured he could be traded at the deadline to a playoff contending team by the deadline. However, Dallas is third in the Western Conference so he may be off the table.
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#151 iamtheprodigy

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:31 PM

He was considered trade bait because he's a UFA at the offseason. Dallas didn't really expect to have the season that they are currently having. His salary is 7.8 million so they figured he could be traded at the deadline to a playoff contending team by the deadline. However, Dallas is third in the Western Conference so he may be off the table.


Oh ok. Well I would think he would get more than just a 2nd round pick too, should Dallas turn out to be a fluke. He's an elite-level player.
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#152 coldply123

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:21 PM

Understood, but the Devils made their bed with the Kovy deal now they have to sleep in it. If we lose Zach, we lose Zach and we have to do a bit of rebuilding. In the very least we've got an extra 5 mil and 4 1st round picks. Imagine the leverage we would have in trades with a first round pick available, especially 4 1st round picks. I was watching the Rogers feed of the Edmonton game last night and the between period commentators were speculating that Brad Richards may fetch a 2nd round pick(I think he'll get a bit more) at the trade deadline. That's Brad Richards. Now imagine the returns if you can afford to throw in a first rounder.



That's such utter freaking nonsense. There isn't a chance Richards fetches only a 2nd. He's not getting traded anyway.

Richards is worth at least one top prospect, plus a 1st rounder, and probably a role player from the 3rd/4th lines, and that's as a rental.
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#153 SMantzas

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 01:59 AM

Brad richards is a top 10 player in this league. He could easily fetch a kovalchuk deal
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#154 Triumph

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:18 AM

Brad richards is a top 10 player in this league. He could easily fetch a kovalchuk deal


he's not a top 10 player in this league, and i'm not sure that he would fetch a kovalchuk type of deal if he were traded (his deal is prohibitively expensive, and he has an NTC). that said, i don't think dallas is trading him.
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#155 CarpathianForest

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 09:24 AM

Hey, don't get mad at me. I didn't say it was my opinion that Richards would get a 2nd in return. That being said Richards isn't going to get a huge return. His cap hit on Dallas is 7.8 mil. That means the team that acquires him has to give up a decent amount in return and then try and sign him for at least 7.8 mil.
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#156 SMantzas

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 10:20 AM

Tri. If you look at it by merely points, he's been in the top ten the last few years
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