93 replies to this topic

[msweet]

I think that's a very good post msweet, and sums up the position against Newark very well... and within it, you point out some things implicit in ND5's general argument.

ND5 is NOT proposing your schedule. Ideally, I think he believes that one would not go home after work on a Devils' game night, but would rather go from work directly to Newark to eat dinner, and then go to the game. Implicit in this is that most of the people he thinks the team can get at are single. Families compose a lot of the season ticket holders now. It's clear that has not worked well enough.

And he's claiming, although I think spuriously, that there will be no traffic problems, so that driving will be easy too.

But my schedule is very typical of the current PAYING season ticket holder.

And eat in EWR 41 night a year? Yikes.

See, if you do NOT OWN SEASON's tickets, the length of the hockey season (41 games) and the commitment necessary to go, is hard to understand.

In order to go to 41 games plus playoffs, this must be a part of your lifestyle... not just a special event.

While I admire ND5's conviction and I wish all posters with a cause would argue as articulately and with as much information as he does, he really can't be credible, until I see his $2500/seat for his season's tickets.

[CRASHER]

I'm also hoping that the concessions in the new arena will be of the level of dallas,
phily, and the California arenas and not the school caefteria level food we get at the
swamp now and that would help with the eating concerns too
(yeah that can happen no matter where the arena is, but some edible food in the
arena WOULD be nice !!)

[NewarkDevil5]

From Gladstone and Dover it takes approximately an hour to an hour and ten minutes to get to Broad Street Newark by train. From Broad Street Newark to Penn Station via the new link it should take under 10 minutes. From Penn Station to the arena site it takes approximately 5 minutes to walk. That makes for an hour and a half trip from the two train stations furthest out on the Morris and Essex lines that have service at night. From closer stations, ones within Essex County, it takes much less than that. For example, from Summit it takes a half an hour into Broad Street Station which combined with the link and the walking makes it about 45 minutes. Assumably, the Link will be timed to coincide with train arrivals at Broad Street Station making the transfer easy and relatively seamless. As for the driving solution, if you live in Essex County you have one of two options: take one of the many major roads that radiate out from downtown Newark (Springfield Avenue, Bloomfield Avenue, South Orange Avenue, etc.) and continue throughout the county or take 280 in and get off at Broad Street and take that all of a mile down. Given that most people dislike the sight of slums and Springfield Avenue and South Orange Avenue are both slum type areas, unless you are from the Montclair area and have the option of Bloomfield Avenue straight in I'd suggest 280.

[NewarkDevil5]

What I'd tend to suggest is that you go directly to Newark from work and meet your family there. If you don't like the idea of eating in Newark 41 times a year (I understand, it does get expensive depending on where you go) I'd suggest that on days that you're not in the mood to eat in Newark you drive and on days that you're in the mood for whats available in the Brick City then take mass transit.

[msweet]

What I'd tend to suggest is that you go directly to Newark from work and meet your family there. If you don't like the idea of eating in Newark 41 times a year (I understand, it does get expensive depending on where you go) I'd suggest that on days that you're not in the mood to eat in Newark you drive and on days that you're in the mood for whats available in the Brick City then take mass transit.

You are suggesting what I or other fans do? Huh?

You just simply don't understand the nature of being a season ticket holder.

It's not about the cost of 41 dining experiences in EWR.... It's about eating out 41 nights a year?! When to do that after work and before a game...btwn 5 and 7?.... How is that healthy?

41 games is a life style.

To take the train, many of us is suburban areas would have to get on wait lists for Train Lot permits in many towns cost over $500 per year to get such a permit. Parking is not free in the suburbs. In addition we'd have to pay I'd guess a minimum of of $10 round trip train fair PER PERSON!!!! For me that would be an extra $50 per game x 41 games plus playoffs. That's an $2500 just in transit costs. Right now I pay $10 parking (next to the arena), $2 tolls (Tpke... only $1 for Parkway), and $3 in gas per game. That's $15x41=$600 per year.

You ideal train commute time is about an hour door to door with no problems. This is after you've worked all day x 41!!!!!!


ND5 you should put up $$$$ before you suggest the rest of us paying season ticket holders do this.

I once again say if you are not willing to put up $$$ for season's tickets then shutup.

[sammyk]

Ya know msweet you're right, but, I'm sure for every person like you that is not willing to go to Newark, there is some family in Monmouth, Ocean, or Middlesex counties looking to buy season tickets IF there were public transport. I know I would be one of them.

Also, if the proposed MOM line ever gets built, there would be easier access to even more people in the three mentioned counties.

[NewarkDevil5]

Are you referring to the Freehold line, Sammy? They've been talking about opening that up for years. I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

[Don]

HEY, IT'S SAMMY!

We were about to send out a search party....

[PeteyNice]

I know this is different in each town but in all the train stations here you only pay if you park before 9:30AM. After that it is free (it is always free if you are a resident of the town).

If the train doesn't work for you then drive. Noone is saying you have to take the train but the train is an option in Newark where it is not an option now.


For me and my wife and lets just say a 10 year old kid on a weekend (i.e. not going from work to the game):

For The Meadowlands:
Parking $10
Parkway Tolls: $1.20
Turnpike Tolls: $4.20
Gas: $4.60
------
Total: $20 total commute time 2.5-3 hrs


For a Newark Arena:
Parking: $0
Tolls: $0
Gas: Negligible
Train tickets:
Me: free (monthly pass to New York)
Wife: $9.50
Kid: free ($5.25 on weekdays)

Total: $9.50 (14.25) total commute time 105 mins (includes 15 mins estimate for wating for a train after the game)

[sammyk]

Are you referring to the Freehold line, Sammy? They've been talking about opening that up for years. I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

Yah, the Monmouth-Ocean-Middlesex line. I did say IF, not when.

I know it'll take forever if it ever does get done with all the NIMBY crap going on, as well as other issues.

[sammyk]

HEY, IT'S SAMMY!

We were about to send out a search party....

Hehe, some people know my whereabouts.

[NewarkDevil5]

If you have determined that you want to drive, the option is most certainly there. Getting into and out of Newark in late afternoon/evening by car is a cinch and you know that. If I remember correctly you worked in Newark at one point. If you'd ever worked late you know that Broad Street is deserted by 6:30. Here's an unrealistic, but poignant scenario: a sellout crowd at the 18,500 seat arena. Only 2500 people used mass transit to get there. The other 16,000 people came in 8000 cars. 2000 cars come from the Northern Turnpike, 1000 from Route 21, 1000 from the Southern Turnpike, 2000 from 280 and 1000 from 78 and 22. That is easily doable. McCarter Highway, Broad Street, Raymond Boulevard and Market Street can handle that. You also know for fact that there are enough parking garages in the area around the arena site to support them. The ONLY problem that I foresee is that the downtown exits on Route 280 are dangerous and need to be redone completely. That however is not going to get done any time soon. If Newark can support 8000 cars (3000 of them coming from the Bergen area, accounting for some 6000 fans and another 2000 coming from Essex accounting for another 4000) then I'd say the city can handle the more realistic scenario of some 6500 people taking mass transit in that sellout game and the highways accounting for some 6000 cars. Newark can handle it easily.

[NewarkDevil5]

Oh yeah, thats assuming that not a single member of the crowd is one of the 200,000 office workers in Newark.

[msweet]

If there is a reasonable driving solution... I'm all for the EWR solution.

But I'm skepticle right now to say the least.

NOTE TO DM:

Can we have a seperate threads on the New Arena Issue?

One for people who hawk plans but have no real intention of buying tickets to more than a handful of games a year and one for the people's opinions who really count and that's the one's buying season's tickets.

[pattyelias]

Hey MSweet..........are we supposed to have a separate thread for weekend season ticket holder, one for weekday ticket holder (are there any?), one for holiday plan owners, and one for miscellaneous others? do only full season ticket holders' opinions count in your eyer?

[HellOnICE]

I think that any plan holders, have a slight edge on those without, I am sorry if that offends anyone. As for the paying for lot passes to train stations, I have never ever paid in those lots at that hour when I go to Ranger/MSG Events. It's meant for business hours.

[djstubbs]

dj.......i hate picking on you but i have to here. the 5 mile difference to newark makes a huge difference. why? because you can get there by public transportation from everywhere in the state and from nyc. how can you get to the meadowlands without a car? you can take a bus from manhattan but once you're there it is impossible to get anywhere else by public transportation unless you are planning on going back to manhattan. you can say "well everyone drives in nj" which is by and large true, BUT people who take the trains and buses to work in newark, jersey city, new york, etc cannot go to the games during the week because there is no way to get there or back home. if your suggestion is a renovated CAA with a rail link to the secaucus junction and all the entertainment ammenities that would accompany xanadu, i'd be interested in that. however, IMO newark is the way to go. unfortunately you think that since CAA is convenient for you that it is therefore that convenient for everyone else. that is just not true.

I understand your point, and it was well said, but what I was suggesting is correct...

I think that establishing public transportation to the CAA is less costly than building a new arena, and considering Sharpe James gained $200 million from the Port Authority from 9/11, it would be in his best interest to re-invest that in public transportation to the CAA...

[djstubbs]

There is no arena solution that is going to appeal to everyone (except Secaucus and that ship has sailed). I do not have season tickets now as to go home from work and then drive the Meadowlands would mean that I would always miss the first period. I am married and do not have kids but assuming there is an arena in Newark and I did have kids I would have my wife and kid get on a train, meet me in Newark for a nice dinner, go to the game and then the three of us take the train home together afterwards. For a lot of people it is one train. Looking at a map it looks like it would be an inexpensive taxi between Broad St Station and where they propose the arena to be. I do not know what your big aversion to taking the Newark Subway thing is. It is not like NJ Transit trains that only run a few times an hour they are like NYC Subway trains that run every few minutes and I am sure they would be scheduled to connect for when your train arrives at Newark Broad St and when the game ends.

Nice dinner in Newark, give me a break....

[djstubbs]

The Newark arena has better access FROM NYC than CAA (NJ Transit buses/trains and the PATH) so the new arena would be a FAR superior location for Devil fans who work in NYC. Greater Access means greater attendance.

Thats just not true, from the port authority its a 20 minute bus ride to CAA.

[HellOnICE]

That statement stubbs just tarnished your credibility, if you had any. I have had very fine dinners in Newark, and one could take ur statement as racial. And as for James making money from 9/11, the land lease extension by the PA was a direct effect of that. It is something that wouldn't have happened anyway. right. Why would James invest 200 of his city's millions in the Meadowlands. That makes absolutely no sense. By the time they spend 1 BILLION DOLLARS, in what I think maybe a failing venture in Xanadu, and renovate the arena for at least 100 MIL and then spend at least another 100 mil on a rail system, the money doesn't add up to a already failing arena.

Edited by HellOnICE, 02 February 2004 - 07:40 PM.