Jump to content

Photo

A Thread In Praise of Mark Fayne


  • Please log in to reply
47 replies to this topic

#21 elias2600

elias2600

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,793 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:03 AM

While Fayne has gotten much better, he's not the only young defenseman in our orginazation "worth a damn" as you say. Taormina and Urbom have both shown potential. Not to mention you have Merril and Burlon on the way.


We shouldn't forget Eric Gelinas either. His mid-season trade to the Saint John Sea Dogs gives him a chance to play winning hockey, and a good shot to win the Q, and thus go to the Memorial Cup this year.
  • 0

#22 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,185 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:04 AM

I'd sign up for Fayne as a back-pairing guy. He looked terrible the first several games, but has shown drastic improvement. His skating is fine, his passes are pretty good too. He doesn't have the greatest shot, but I've seen leaps and bounds in terms of his decision-making and feel for the forwards in the offensive zone.

The Devils defensive future doesn't look that bad with guys like Burlon, Gelinas, Urbom, Merrill coming in the next several years. Guys like Fayne, Taormina can be solid back-pairing guys who can ease the transition with the younger guys coming in. With Tallinder, White, Volchenkov as the veteran guys the next few yrs, I think we will be okay.

Only concern would be the PMD. We have to see if Taormina can handle that role. He hasn't really been tested or had enough experience with it yet.

Also the emergence of Fayne, and the return of Taormina next season, continue to reinforce my belief that Andy Greene will be traded. Unfortunately, with Greene's improved play, he's likely playing himself into a better contract and I don't see how the Devils could or should afford it. I think he's more likely to be moved before the deadline than even before a few weeks ago.
  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#23 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,545 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:24 AM

Only concern would be the PMD. We have to see if Taormina can handle that role. He hasn't really been tested or had enough experience with it yet.


Can you explain what this means? I know PMD stands for puck-moving defenseman, but I think it's ridiculous to call that a 'role'. Every defenseman moves the puck. I'm not being intentionally dense here, I don't think, I just think this is a term that gets thrown around here without anyone really knowing what it means.
  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#24 GA Devil

GA Devil

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,585 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:28 AM

I think PMD is referring to a player like Sergei Zubov. A defenseman who can skate it out of his own zone, and/or make the correct pass to a foward from his own zone, and/or make the right play from the blue line in the offensive zone. At least, that's my interpretation of the term.
  • 0
Let the celebration begin in the Daneyko household!!!!

#25 njdevil26

njdevil26

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,336 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:44 AM

Yes, in a way he makes Tallinder better. If Fayne is playing well... that's more confidence Tallinder will have to do his own thing without having to worry about a shaky d partner that will mess up at any second.
  • 0

#26 sundstrom

sundstrom

    Hall of Famer

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,258 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:47 AM

Can you explain what this means? I know PMD stands for puck-moving defenseman, but I think it's ridiculous to call that a 'role'. Every defenseman moves the puck. I'm not being intentionally dense here, I don't think, I just think this is a term that gets thrown around here without anyone really knowing what it means.


frankly, i think many would equate it with points - thus they think that sheldon souray in his time was a PMD (which he wasn't). i think it's one of those things that you know it when you see it because it's NOT all about points. Paul Martin is a "puck moving defenseman" but there weren't really the points to back that up in many people's minds. andy greene IS a puck moving defenseman - he's just not that good at it.

hank tallinder is a puck moving defenseman.
mark fayne is a puck moving defenseman.

anton volchenkov and colin white are NOT puck moving defenseman.

you're asking for a guy who can skate the puck out of his zone, make the correct pass when needed to continue to generate offense, and many times most importantly, has the ability to bring the puck into the offensive zone.

when your 5 guys on the ice consist of, lets say, a white/salvador pair who will either bank the puck off the glass - send it up the boards or PERHAPS try a 5% success-rate stretch pass, the 3 forwards hardly ever have a chance to hit the offensive zone with speed or a plan. this is where you want that "PMD". there is also the desire to have a guy that can do something on the PP - but i know that's a role many have taormina slated for when he returns (likely next year).
  • 0

"This team was never the same once we lost Patrik Sundstrom"- Lou Lamoriello


20082719943.png
_________________________________________________________________
“They’re the ones that makes it happen,” Lemaire said. “It’s not us. It’s not me. It’s not the other guy. It’s not the guy before. It’s not the guy after. It’s them. And they have to take care of business.”
-
"I guess I just miss my friend" (#28)


#27 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,185 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:25 PM

Can you explain what this means? I know PMD stands for puck-moving defenseman, but I think it's ridiculous to call that a 'role'. Every defenseman moves the puck. I'm not being intentionally dense here, I don't think, I just think this is a term that gets thrown around here without anyone really knowing what it means.


I used it as shorthand, but I probably should have given a more detailed explanation. I agree, on it's surface, PMD, and everyone says, well any defenseman can move the puck. What the Devils lack is a defenseman with good skating ability and vision who has the passing capability to stretch opposition through the neutral zone and carry the puck as well if needed. I understand there may not be a lot out there, but I see a lack of that on this team. It isn't a role Tri, but it's a skill-set and quality.

Andy Greene is not a PMD. Anssi Salmela shows some occasional flashes, but he makes some stupid decisions and isn't consistent, with the decision-making or the passes. Tallinder is not either, too poor of a skater.

Niedermayer, Rafalski, and to a lesser extent, Paul Martin.

I don't currently see anyone on the roster that shows the kind of ability. Lemaire has already intimated that he sees that as a current liability on the roster and that is a need Lou will need to address.
  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#28 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,185 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:30 PM

I think PMD is referring to a player like Sergei Zubov. A defenseman who can skate it out of his own zone, and/or make the correct pass to a foward from his own zone, and/or make the right play from the blue line in the offensive zone. At least, that's my interpretation of the term.


Yes.

Think of it as sort of a QB when the team has the puck. A guy who has the combination of skating ability, vision, and passing/decision-making to help develop plays or read plays and be responsible enough not to give pucks away or lose sight of easy chances in the offensive zone.

One of the reasons Kovy has at times looked diminished is because he's been asked to carry the puck through the neutral zone from his own end, when he should be on the receiving end and have somebody feeding him those attempts and sretching the forwards apart when they collapse back into their own end.

Early on with MacLean, opposing teams were just meeting us with ease and taking pucks away in the neutral zone without much effort.
  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#29 devlman

devlman

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,911 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:36 PM

While Fayne has gotten much better, he's not the only young defenseman in our orginazation "worth a damn" as you say. Taormina and Urbom have both shown potential. Not to mention you have Merril and Burlon on the way.


True, that was a poor choice of words on my part. What i meant to say was that imo he has been the only young defenseman to truly step up to the next level this season.
  • 0

#30 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,477 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 12:50 PM

It's definitely been a great surprise at how well Fayne has done. I find it strange he seems to make such great choices in the offensive zone, when to pinch, when to shoot, when to pass, and then he still struggles at times in the defensive decisions, when to step up on a guy, when to lay back, etc... Not to say he's been a defensive liability, he's been fine, but the mistakes have mostly come due to poor thinking so I would expect poor thinking on both ends, like Salmela, rather than great at one end and iffy on the other.

Also, to echo it's really too bad Taormina went down. He was playing pretty well when the whole team, even the good players, was looking awful. It'd be interesting to see if his play would have gotten even better now that everyone else is playing better. I tend to suspect he, like everyone else, would look better in that circumstance.
  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#31 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,545 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:07 PM

Yes.

Think of it as sort of a QB when the team has the puck. A guy who has the combination of skating ability, vision, and passing/decision-making to help develop plays or read plays and be responsible enough not to give pucks away or lose sight of easy chances in the offensive zone.

One of the reasons Kovy has at times looked diminished is because he's been asked to carry the puck through the neutral zone from his own end, when he should be on the receiving end and have somebody feeding him those attempts and sretching the forwards apart when they collapse back into their own end.

Early on with MacLean, opposing teams were just meeting us with ease and taking pucks away in the neutral zone without much effort.


see, this is where i get confused. the devils have never really had a player play the way you are suggesting. the devils never ran their up-ice offense through niedermayer and rafalski. sure, those guys make the first pass, and sometimes they won't pass the puck until they get into the offensive zone, but what you're suggesting just doesn't make very much sense. so i imagine you are going to be disappointed in taormina.

btw taormina's stats are not that good. he needs a ton of work in the d zone.
  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#32 Devils731

Devils731

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 17,477 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:23 PM

btw taormina's stats are not that good. he needs a ton of work in the d zone.


Everyone's numbers stunk then. Fayne, who we have a thread praising, would have looked horrific then, I'm guessing. Even defenseman we know can play in the NHL, Greene and Tallinder, looked like they couldn't play in the AHL.

Taormina was only -2 in 17 games, playing 20 minutes a night, when the team was horrible and getting no luck. That's pretty good.

Fayne is +1 in 31 games while playing 16 minutes a night, part of when the team is playing well and getting lots of luck. That's not bad either.

Taormin's relative Corsi is slightly higher than Fayne, but Taormina got more starts in the offensive zone, so that explains a lot of that....but more of Taormina's shifts ended in the offensive zone too, so there was effectiveness in where his shifts ended. Fayne's benefited from having some of the highest team shooting percentages while on the ice, while Taormina is hurt by the team having some of the worst shooting percentage.
  • 0
Your unconditional rejection of violence makes you smugly think of yourselves as noble, as enlightened, but in reality it is nothing less than abject moral capitulation to evil. Unconditional rejection of self-defense, because you think its a supposed surrender to violence, leaves you no resort but begging for mercy or offering appeasement.

-Terry Goodkind


Sex Panther cologne -- 50 percent of the time, it works every time.

-Anchorman

The best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. The second best time is now.

-Anonymous

Keeper of Section 212-213's wayward step

#33 coldply123

coldply123

    Assistant Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,185 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:23 PM

see, this is where i get confused. the devils have never really had a player play the way you are suggesting. the devils never ran their up-ice offense through niedermayer and rafalski. sure, those guys make the first pass, and sometimes they won't pass the puck until they get into the offensive zone, but what you're suggesting just doesn't make very much sense. so i imagine you are going to be disappointed in taormina.

btw taormina's stats are not that good. he needs a ton of work in the d zone.


I disagree.

Niedermayer was frequently used in such a manner, often times going it on his own volition. Rafalski also tended to do it as well but not as frequently, particularly in 5-5 situations. You're clearly not understanding what I am trying to relay on the subject. Difference in understanding I guess, so I won't continue on this subject.

I agree on Taormina. There is some doubt there.
  • 0
Bill Simmons: "The Bruins are like Fredo -- they're dead to me as long as the owner is alive."

"I'm Going With The Devils over Anaheim"-Barry Melrose

#34 devlman

devlman

    Head Coach

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,911 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:35 PM

Taormina is not a defenseman. He cant cut it in the defensive zone Hed be better off on the wing
  • 0

#35 EdgeControl

EdgeControl

    All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,316 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 01:38 PM

PMD or not, we need a D-men that has a big shot like Rolston from the point. how many times does Kovy take the puck into the offensive zone and just suck eveyone away from the blueline? He then feeds it to the point only to have a wrist shot taken or a slapper that doesn't get through. we need a cannon back there
  • 0

#36 Triumph

Triumph

    A Legend

  • Mod
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 27,545 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 02:04 PM

Everyone's numbers stunk then. Fayne, who we have a thread praising, would have looked horrific then, I'm guessing. Even defenseman we know can play in the NHL, Greene and Tallinder, looked like they couldn't play in the AHL.

Taormina was only -2 in 17 games, playing 20 minutes a night, when the team was horrible and getting no luck. That's pretty good.

Fayne is +1 in 31 games while playing 16 minutes a night, part of when the team is playing well and getting lots of luck. That's not bad either.

Taormin's relative Corsi is slightly higher than Fayne, but Taormina got more starts in the offensive zone, so that explains a lot of that....but more of Taormina's shifts ended in the offensive zone too, so there was effectiveness in where his shifts ended. Fayne's benefited from having some of the highest team shooting percentages while on the ice, while Taormina is hurt by the team having some of the worst shooting percentage.


you obviously know that i am not looking at plus minus when i say this.

the devils have been the same territorial team all season.

in games with taormina: +2.18 fenwick per game
total: +1.98 fenwick per game

the difference is basically all attributable to score effects.

there's also the fact that while taormina's shooting percentage was low, his goalie save percentage was inordinately high. when he went down with an injury most of the team were hovering in the 880s and yet he was somewhat inexplicably at 915. his save percentage on ice is still better than fayne's.

one thing that's interesting to consider is that players with a high zone finish are rewarded in that statistic for NOT scoring. i wonder if we jiggered fayne's shooting percentage to be as low as taormina's and take all the goals and call them positive zone finishes if we wouldn't see the same thing.

anyway, here's my issue with taormina: his corsi rel qoc is really low, basically meaning he was given the softest ice time. he did okay with that. we'll need more games to judge.
  • 0

http://drivingplay.blogspot.com - The blog with three first lines
 


#37 insanity_gallops

insanity_gallops

    Hall of Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,334 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 04:57 PM

Further points to Mark Fayne come via someone I know who attended the STH event today. When asked if he'd be willing to destroy Avery in Friday night's game, Fayne's response: "Ugh, I f*cking hate that guy."

And Fayne doesn't worry me when he's on the ice. I don't see him as a rookie defenseman, I see him as a defenseman. I trust his hockey sense and his play with the puck. He has little cough-ups now and then that bother me, and he's been caught behind the Devils' net at times, but I trust him on the ice way way WAY more than I trust Salmela.
  • 0

Sergei Brylin Award Winner: '04-'05, '05-'06
RD Avatar Award Winner: '05-'06, '06-'07, '07-'08, '09-'10

Thanks to LüZZo for the avatar!


"How can it be bullsh!t to state a preference?"

#38 Devils Pride 26

Devils Pride 26

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,990 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:00 PM

I think Fayne has really filled the role the organization was hoping Fraser could the last couple of years.

Also, what is the word on Taormina? Any progress?
  • 0

#39 MadDog2020

MadDog2020

    A Legend

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,047 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:04 PM

We shouldn't forget Eric Gelinas either. His mid-season trade to the Saint John Sea Dogs gives him a chance to play winning hockey, and a good shot to win the Q, and thus go to the Memorial Cup this year.

Actually, I had forgotton about Gelinas- thanks for that update. :P
  • 0
iq0p.pngUploaded with ImageShack.com

#40 ghdi

ghdi

    General Manager

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,397 posts

Posted 13 February 2011 - 07:08 PM

hes deffo gettin better
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users