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devilsfan26

Member Since 10 Jul 2003
Offline Last Active Today, 10:48 AM
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Posts I've Made

In Topic: Adidas gets NHL jersey deal. Starts 17-18. Advertising on jerseys poss

25 August 2015 - 01:30 AM

Honestly I don't think there will be much of a change, if any.  Adidas already owns Reebok so outside of the neck tag changing from the Reebok wordmark to the Adidas logo, I don't see any other changes they could make.

They are spending a ton for this contract, I think the article said twice as much as Reebok did last time, so I'm sure they will do what they can to increase sales, and what better way to do that than to force teams to change to new designs?  Like I said, the fans will always buy their favorite team's new jersey.

 

Especially for hockey and the lettering.  And, I agree about the pricing.  Reebok paid through the nose for the license, and expected the fans to pay what they wanted.  Not everyone is willing to spend that kind of money and they will settle for a knock-off.  I have bought one jersey since the 05 lockout, and it was from the store in the Livingston mall when they were closing.  Ron gave me a Rangers jersey for $40.  It was a replica, but I'm not paying for the Edge, or Authentic, or whatever the hell they are called now.

 

P.S.  If you are a collector, have some jerseys sitting in my closet I bought years ago I would sell for cheap.  Bought most on EBay in the late 90s as I was starting a collection, but lost interest when I realized I really had no interest in displaying them.  Never worn, some have tags, some tags have fallen off.

Picking out the fakes is easy for jersey collectors because we know what to look for, but I think for the everyday fan, it isn't as simple and becomes not worth the trouble to weed out the fakes.  One of my old roommates is a big Rangers fan, and his girlfriend bought him a McDonagh jersey.  He is aware of the prevalence of fake jerseys, and said he thought his was legit because he didn't see anything wrong with it, and wanted me to verify it for him.  As soon he showed it to me I pointed out a handful of fake jersey characteristics that were present on his jersey.  He even has a few officially-licensed replicas and still wasn't able to see the difference until I showed him.

I may be interested in your old jerseys, do you have a list of what they are?

In Topic: Adidas gets NHL jersey deal. Starts 17-18. Advertising on jerseys poss

24 August 2015 - 12:51 AM

With regards to player tees, part of Reebok's contract was that they would also have exclusive rights for the player tees.  I think anyone could have made those before, but now it is only Reebok.  If I remember correctly, they increased the prices of the player tees once they took over since there was no more competition.

I think jersey collectors hate the fake jerseys because shopping for jerseys online used to be easy, especially on eBay, but now most of the marketplace is fake jerseys, and if you are trying to avoid being burned by accidentally buying a fake jersey, you really have to look carefully and comb through pages of fake jerseys to find what you're looking for.  This wouldn't be the case if people didn't buy the fake jerseys, but they wouldn't be doing that if Reebok didn't screw themselves by jacking up the prices while decreasing the quality of the replicas.

In Topic: Adidas gets NHL jersey deal. Starts 17-18. Advertising on jerseys poss

21 August 2015 - 10:22 AM

I will just do bullet points to make it easier to read for everyone and it is easier for me to type lol

 

1) When they switched over to Edge 1.0 to 2.0, they changed the play-dry material that was on the front, shoulder and arm panels to traditional air-knit.  They also loosened the body and the sleeves while also shortening the sleeves.  The Premier replicas still to this day actually mimic more of the 1.0 than the 2.0 so that's why the Premiers have goofy long sleeves in my opinion.  They kept the Edge material (Edge mesh) on the armpits quarter-chest panels and back panel.

 

2) I counted quickly the number of panels on a couple of gamers I have between the Edge 2.0 and the old Reebok 6100 that was last used in 2006-07 season.  The 6100 had 9 panels while the Edge 2.0 had 32 panels by my count.  This includes the fact that on the 6100's the bottom and arm stripes were sub-laminated ("painted) on while the Edge 2.0 the strips are all separate pieces of material.  This is why teams like Colorado could no longer do the mountain theme.  It was easy to do when the stripes were painted on while the Edge template they would have to be separate pieces of material, which is nearly impossible.  I do know that since then Reebok has gotten better at working with the Edge template and can accommodate more radical designs.  The vertical striping actually runs up the seams of the front panel with the front/chest quarter panels near the armpits and this was a compromise they used due to the absence of bottom striping.  I think Reebok encouraged a lot of teams to remove the bottom striping when the switch was made in 2007 due to the increased cost of materials since again those stripes were each now another piece of material.  Even a team like Toronto went without bottom striping for a couple years after the switch.

 

3) I agree that there will always be a segment of fans who either don't care enough or just plain don't know enough to buy a jersey through another means other than the team store or at a brick and mortar store or a website like NHL.com.  However, there are still plenty of people I see who spent enough time online to find a Chinese knockoff site to buy one of those horrific $30 knockoffs and wear it proudly at the arena.  I think these days I see about the same amount of official jerseys as I do knockoffs.  I think for a lot of fans it's really all about getting current players and building up a collection of jerseys on the cheap.  I have actually seen online guys bragging about owning 200 jerseys and pretty much all of them are cheap knockoffs.  The best thing about 550's is that you can get them on eBay cheap blank and then have it customized with a "forever" Devil like Brodeur, Stevens, Elias, Daneyko, etc. and no matter what those jerseys will never look goofy or out of place.  But again people just want the latest and greatest and like I stated before there are a good number of people who actually prefer the Edge look/feel/fit.

 

4) Teams do have the final say but they are certainly heavily encouraged by Reebok to go with their designs/recommendations.  Most of the team executives are not marketing people (they hire a people to do that) and the biggest thing Reebok pushes is the bottom line.  Reebok will push for the cheapest jersey available and usually seduce the teams with this POV by telling them their bottom line will look better.  Not only that but ugly standard and 3rd jerseys are nothing new.  Examples of ugly 3rd jerseys from the past are the Wild Wing and the Burger King jerseys.  Example of an ugly standard jerseys are the Islanders Fisherman jerseys.  These things will always happen when teams and designers have extra time on their hands and want extra $.

1)  I remember them doing this, the idea of wearing an Edge jersey with a pair of Dockers Stain Defenders to be completely spill-proof was sadly short-lived...  Anyway, I guess what I meant to ask was did these changes really make a difference regarding bottom striping since some teams still had bottom stripes anyway?  The current Edge jerseys are still assembled the same way as the original ones, meaning where each piece is connected to each other, right?

 

2)  I understand why Colorado couldn't keep their mountain pattern, but other teams just had straight horizontal stripes.  Some teams were able to keep them while others were not.  Maybe because of increased cost of materials, but why couldn't they just sublimate the lines onto the Edge jerseys like they did with the 6100s?

 

3)  Right, for those people it is more about having the current design or current player.  Those are probably bigger reasons.  I tell people the same thing about the 550s and getting a player that won't go out of style.  I hear the old ones are more durable than the Edge jerseys too, although I never bought an Edge jersey so I can't speak from my own experience on that.

 

4)  It's nothing new, but seeing that almost the entire league had to come out with a new design makes me think the team execs might have had a lesser say than they should have.

In Topic: Adidas gets NHL jersey deal. Starts 17-18. Advertising on jerseys poss

20 August 2015 - 11:57 PM

Brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Haha.  How much longer until that movie is a documentary?

 

I think I remember reading a lot of the changes in designs were actually be necessity due to the fact that the Edge template was cut/assembled differently.  If you compare an old CCM 6100 jersey to an Edge jersey you will see that an Edge has more panels that make up the design.  When the Edge first came out in 2007, one of the challenges was that it was actually a bitch to manufacture the bottom striping pattern.  Teams like Colorado who had the mountain design for the bottom striping of their jerseys had to change to the apron-string style.  Over the years Reebok was able to overcome this and now they can make designs that are similar to the old styles.  I also remember hearing that one of the reasons why when the Devils started having retro night they wore Edge jerseys on the ice but the replicas were of the old CCM 550 cuts was due to the bottom hem striping issue.  It is much cheaper and easier to replica that striping pattern on the old CCM's than it is on the Edge's and even the replica's so they decided to go this route.

 

As for the three reasons why fans keep buying the Reebok jerseys, reasons 1 and 2 you gave are legit reasons but 3 isn't IMO.  Yeah the old cuts are not available in stores but there is a crapload on eBay, with most being in the $20-40 range.  That's much cheaper than buying a Premier replica but people still buy the premiers.  I think people really do like how they are.  I personally don't care much for them, but I have heard others say they like the Premier's softer material and they also like how the arms and body are cut closer to the body so they are not like wearing a tent like on the 550's.  I can see those as being valid reasons.

 

In the end the teams do have the power to veto anything Reebok designs, and it is not unique to the Stars.  It is really up to the team and how much they push back.  Look at the Stadium Series jerseys when Lou pushed back against going to the chrome and when they switched over to the current Edge template.  The thing is most GM's and teams don't want to push back, they want to sell more jerseys to their fans.

How much did Reebok actually change the construction of the jerseys though after the initial Edge release (aside from the materials)?  Some teams seemed to be able to keep their bottom stripes, either straight across like the Devils have, or contouring to the cut of the jersey like Minnesota used to have on their white jerseys.  Meanwhile, a ton of other teams ended up with bizarre vertical piping instead.  I feel like that may have just been an excuse.  Plenty of teams had to ditch their bottom striping, I'm sure Reebok could have figured out a way to construct the jerseys to keep the bottom striping present, but they wanted to reinvent the wheel with vertical piping instead.

 

I completely agree with you that the 550s are a much better buy than the Edge jerseys and have purchased a bunch on eBay myself, but I don't think most people are like us, especially not casual fans at least.  You can find older jerseys on eBay, but I think for some people they don't want to put in the extra effort and it's just easier to buy a jersey at the arena or at their local sports store.  We know that picking up a 550 on eBay is better, but not everyone is a jersey enthusiast who posts on a hockey forum.

 

You have a point about the teams having the final say, but why does it need to be such a struggle?  I would think it should be easy for a team's upper management to just say, "No, we are keeping our jerseys as is," but obviously that's not how it is with these manufacturers anymore.

 

I hope you are right and that this won't be a complete disaster, but I'm preparing for the worst.

In Topic: Adidas gets NHL jersey deal. Starts 17-18. Advertising on jerseys poss

20 August 2015 - 12:02 PM

Reebok bought CCM in 2004 and in 2005-06 and 06-07 season were using CCM 6100 jerseys just with the Reebok vector logo slapped on in place of the CCM logo.  Reebok made no bones about wanting to change the uniform when they bought CCM but it took a few years for them to develop and market the Edge jersey template when it finally came out in 2007-08 season.

 

I think the statement of people hating the Edge jerseys is untrue.  Yeah the players hated it and they were already switching over to the Edge 2.0 template by the middle of the 07-08 season.  Hell the Edge 2.0's outside the cut of the jersey still have a lot in common with the old CCM 6100 jerseys, so not a whole lot has changed.  If you are talking about fans hating it, just by a quick scan at arenas I see more people wearing the new Premiers which are based off the Edge 1.0 jerseys than I do see people wearing the old CCM 550 replicas. I even see more of the Edge knockoffs than I see the old 550 lately, so people must like them enough.  The only thing Reebok needs to work on is the price points and getting rid of the Indo-Edges.

 

Finally while Reebok does have a say with designs, it doesn't have the final say.  There is an article I will have to go find about the design process when Dallas re-did their jerseys a couple seasons back.  Reebok and Dallas pretty much had equal say with the Dallas executives having the final decision.  I doubt that process will change.

Yeah I remember Reebok owning CCM for a few years before switching the jerseys, I still don't see why that is different than what is going on now though.

 

It wasn't necessarily the materials that fans hated about the Edge jerseys, it was the fact that most teams suddenly had new designs, and a lot of them were hideous (Nashville, Colorado, Florida, etc.)  while others were just the exact same jersey as another team but with different colors (Pittsburgh, Ottawa, Tampa Bay).  I specifically remember there being a ton of backlash on here, HFBoards, and the IceJerseys forum when those designs were revealed.  Your point that you see more people wearing Edge jerseys than the 550s fits exactly with what I'm saying.  People will hate the designs, but the manufacturer doesn't care because the fans are suckers and will buy them anyway because (1) fans want to wear their team's current jersey, (2) fans want to buy jerseys of their new favorite player, and (3) the previous models are no longer in production, so it takes some digging to find them compared to walking into any sporting goods store or the arena to buy the new one.

 

I don't know who has how much say, but it isn't a coincidence that the Lightning, Senators, and Penguins all ended up with identical jerseys.  Clearly Reebok had cookie cutter templates they were pushing.  There was a rumor that the Original Six teams would get to keep their jerseys, but they wanted everyone else to come out with something new.  Also, despite being Original Six teams and getting to keep their designs, I'm sure the Red Wings weren't happy about having to move the C and A's to the other side of the jersey, and the diagonal "Rangers" on those jerseys is off-center now too because of the way the jerseys are cut.  Someone on here posted a quote from Lamoriello after a fan club meeting around the time the Edge jerseys were revealed, and he said, "You have no idea what we had to go through to keep our jerseys."  If it was that much of a battle for Lou Lamoriello to prevent our jerseys from being changed, there must have been a lot of pressure from Reebok and/or the NHL.  Maybe Reebok gave the Stars some more say in the final design of their jersey because they weren't trying to keep the same design they previously had.  Regardless of what new design they came out with, the fans would have bought it.