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Neb00rs

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Everything posted by Neb00rs

  1. I think it's possible that he ends up on this long "list" of Shero's. San Jose performed well under him.
  2. You're missing the point where the Devils have a bunch of areas of need. That's why you need the assets. Florida probably drafted Knight higher than would normally be smart to do so - but from their vantage point going into the draft, they had a pretty complete lineup and system outside of a goalie prospect, so it's at least a bit more understandable. They probably did the right thing but could have drafted a d-man as well. In any case, they didn't have Bobrovsky yet.
  3. Well, I'm not recommending such and it wasn't the operative part of what I was saying but, presumably if you're going to narrow the return you get for Hall, you do it in order to get an asset that is ready to play now, one that can be used to try and salvage the team as it is. In that case maybe you try and re-sign Vatanen. You don't get a Taylor Hall to trade every year, putting the entire return into a single goalie prospect when the team is in need of a lot more than that (soon enough Greene, Vatanen, Zajac, Wood etc... could all be gone too) is not a great way to go. If the prospect fails, you're left with nothing. The draft coming up is fairly deep in the first round and the Devils would do well to compile picks.
  4. Exactly how guaranteed of a thing is Spencer Knight? Did everyone all of a sudden become Spencer Knight psychic experts? Admittedly he is a more well-regarded goalie prospect than we oft seen lately and he's had a strong start to his college career, but he's still a prospect and he's not the only goalie prospect out there. Post-Hall the Devils are going to need a lot more than a goalie. They'll need to replace Hall, they'll still need a no. 1 D, and yes a goalie is part of the equation too, though, Blackwood is still pretty young for a starting netminder. The Devils need assets - draft picks of every position are often duds - the more first rounders you have, the merrier. You might have more of an argument if you were proposing the Devils try and trade for an NHL-ready goalie - at least in that case the goalie could come in and help the current roster - one that, by the way, lost last night with Blackwood playing very well.
  5. To some degree it's true that what you trade Taylor Hall for will reveal what the plan is moving forward. Does Shero believe in the integrity of the core roster? Or as things stand does he think next year is out of the question as well? The issue is that Taylor Hall is a large part of the so-called integrity of the roster and the Devils are kind of forced to trade him, thus making it exponentially more risky to try and salvage what's left of the roster for next year. In other words, if you trade Taylor Hall, whether you like the word or not, the Devils have extended their rebuild a few years down the line. And in this scenario, the Devils shouldn't be looking to risk the Hall chip on a single asset in return, especially not a top goalie prospect. The best way to go is to bring back as many significant assets as possible in order to revamp the prospect pipeline into one that could produce the pieces the Devils will be missing starting next year. If you get a Duchene-like haul (two second tier prospects, a first round pick and a conditional first round pick - and the Devils might have to add in something else) the Devils would then have two first round picks this year, a small shot at two first round picks next year, and an additional two prospects who have NHL potential all added to the pipeline. You could then of course trade Vatanen for a late first or to attempt to recoup some assortment of the second/third round picks that were lost in obtaining Subban and Gusev. Add in Ty Smith who's an NHLer, as well as an assortment of other "maybes" in the Devils system (Talvitie, White, Walsh, etc...) and the system will be in a lot better shape than it is now. And if it's a top goalie prospect you want, then go ahead and use one of your bevy of draft picks on a goalie.
  6. Neb00rs

    GDT: Devils @ Stars

    My biggest takeaway from tonight is that the Flames are about to be 6-0-0 under Geoff Ward and look much improved. Milan Lucic has three goals in his past four games (he had zero in his previous 27).
  7. The Avs are in a really good position to get Hall because they can offer the Devils something that many other teams cannot: a chance that Hall re-signs with them, resulting in the Devils receiving the conditional assets involved in the trade. Hall seems destined to make it to UFA, and so Shero trading him to a top team with a bright future would be his most appealing option. I think Hall gets to UFA no matter what and I don't know if Colorado is on his radar, but I think there's at least a better chance that if he goes there he ends up liking the situation and sticking around as opposed to say...Arizona. The only way a second tier team, like Arizona, could end up with Hall is by upping the assets on the unconditional side of the deal - something I'm not sure is worth it for a rental and Arizona would really have to believe their time is now for it to happen. Unfortunately, the Devils are not going to make off like bandits with this trade - Hall is just not going to agree to sign long-term now with any team not named the Toronto Maple Leafs which makes his ability to bring back returns different than say, Mark Stone's. And such has almost certainly backed off some teams from the market but I also don't think the Devils will do so poorly. Taylor Hall is still a dynamic player who changes the way the other team has to play on the ice - even a rental of #9 is going to drive competition for his services. And if Shero can't get the right deal now, he should absolutely hold onto Hall until closer to the deadline when more teams will be financially capable of taking on the part of his salary the Devils don't retain.
  8. Yeah, and I mentioned such re: injury, your greater point is that the ship has sailed. Generally you keep star players around while there's any hope of playoffs remaining - trying to win obviously outweighs risk of injury - but the Devils are cooked and fans going into every game expecting to all of sudden see the playoffs-ready team we all imagined at the onset of the season, are probably going to be continually disappointed, especially with the big task in front of Nasreddine, one which it does not look like he's in a rush to fix quickly with the hopes of a miracle run. Nas hasn't changed almost anything yet in terms of structure on the ice - the team is playing harder and faster, that's about it thus far. But, without going off on a tangent here, yeah, no need to hang on to Hall any longer aside from Shero trying to hold out for his best deal.
  9. I mostly agree with this expectation. Despite fans clamoring about the market being best for trading Hall now, the truth is the market probably won't change much between now and the deadline. For however many more games the receiving team gets with Hall now, at the deadline teams have more money to work with and are more desperate. That said, I get the sense that Hall's status is kind of hanging over the players' heads and ultimately it feels like this team won't be able to begin forging an identity until his situation is dealt with. I'd imagine Ray would be eager to let the team move on mentally. There's also the injury risk of course. I think there's a few teams he could end up on, but if it were to be the Avs it's not unreasonable to think he ends up there before our game in Colorado at the end of this week.
  10. Oh please, to suggest that the gist of your crusade against PK for the better part of your recent tenure on the board has been more about PK's diminishing skills/play and less about some sort of weird attack against his character is laughable at best. I've never had an issue with your hockey-related posts on this board, but your constant vilification of PK Subban, specifically in regard to the ridicule you've directed towards his off-ice behavior long ago descended to the level of shameful and disturbing. This is especially true as the rest of us watch as PK goes out of his way to do bring a positive attitude to the team on the ice and terrific charity work to the community off of it. You have no right to spike the football, at this point you shouldn't be saying anything at all in reference to PK Subban.
  11. Neb00rs

    Subban

    There was a time I might have taken this in jest, but the sad thing is, you probably think that making this meme counts as proof that he actually said this.
  12. Neb00rs

    Subban

    Not that you have any evidence to support the tanking claim anyway but keep in mind this is literally a team that played to win up until the end last year, knocking their chances of getting the #1 pick down a bit. Luckily they still won the lottery, but still, tanking doesn't seem to be the MO of this organization.
  13. Neb00rs

    Subban

    The answers are yes and I don't know. In any case, it doesn't change the fact that you indeed moved the goalposts/are trying to redefine the word tanking. I'm not going to speak to what's going to happen in the future - it seems like Ray wants to see what the team does under Nas. Doesn't matter though, the Devils are not tanking right now. Losing more than you're winning isn't tanking. It's being bad.
  14. Neb00rs

    Subban

    This is an incredibly disingenuous way to try and substantiate an obviously stupid assertion that the Devils are tanking. Tanking means to lose as many games as possible, not to trade away assets because it's prudent to do so during a season in which you're not going to make the playoffs. I saw in the other thread you use the term, "my definition of tanking." You lose the argument right there, because you don't get to redefine the word in order to save yourself from having to concede that you have no argument.
  15. Neb00rs

    Rebuild 2.0 Thread

    Sorry. I know it's a little jumbled - which isn't the best way to paint a picture using stats - but to be fair to me, the actual graph is interactive so that's why I didn't think to distinguish the lines more, but I don't really have any way to upload that version here.
  16. Neb00rs

    Rebuild 2.0 Thread

    If it's worth anything to anyone, I threw together a simple graph depicting the 5v5 progress of centers in the NHL over the first three years of their career as compared to Nico. I didn't just select the players in the graph randomly either. I tried to include the players who had the most points in the NHL between 2016-17 and 2018-19 (the last three years). Additionally, I tried to pick players who actually played center and I excluded players who didn't enter the NHL right away to account for Nico starting as an 18 year old. This took out players like Malkin who produced big numbers on arrival, but also players like Scheifele who took a little while to get going. I slightly broke my rules with three players. First, I don't remember how much center Seguin played in his first few years with the Bruins - I do remember that he found himself as a wing at times. I included him here because he is a center and his draft status was kind of like Nico's. Then there's Eichel who I had to skip a few centers on the list of top point producers between 16-17 and 18-19 to get to (he did miss time due to injury). But I included him because of the great expectations that surrounded his entrance into the league and because of what he has emerged into. Finally, I know Draisaitl has played a lot of wing in his career - and next to McDavid to boot, but he has spent a good chunk of time as a second line center during the course of his career as well. The chart weights GP and TOI by portraying 5v5 P/60 rather than total 5v5 points over the players first three years in the league. I also picked a line graph rather than just using single points to show each players' P/60 over the timeframe in question in order to [hopefully] demonstrate some of the ups and downs from season-to-season. As you can see, there's clearly an upper echelon of centers that hit the ground running in the NHL. But for the most part the graph is pretty messy with a lot of intersection. Nico is in the lower end of the graph (the green-ish line that starts on the left at point "2.38") but honestly, that he's in the mix with the early career production of some of the league's current best centers is a sign that he's coming along just fine. I apologize now for any mistakes, I threw this together rather quickly.
  17. As far as a rebuild goes, we're still waiting to know this. To me, Ray's most important quote yesterday was: This says to me that Ray indeed is going to give it a few weeks to determine whether or not independent of the coaching variable, the players still suck. The minute we'll know "Rebuild 2.0" is in effect, is if Shero trades Hall for an A prospect and a pick. That says that the Devils are looking ahead a few years into the future and should trade away their players. And yes, they should trade Gusev if they get a good offer for him, why not? We don't really know what the long-term trajectory of Gusev is and if they lose Hall for a prospect they're unlikely to be good next year anyway. On the other hand, if Shero trades Hall for an established NHL player that's maybe not quite as good as Hall but still good (and of course a pick would come our way as well), then he's probably looking to play for the playoffs as soon as next year. This situation would probably mean the Devils keep Gusev and whoever else they can.
  18. The Devils first period was really impressive. They did look fast. Hall looked improved too, he was super aggressive on the puck and controlled it all over the place. We've seen the signs of that before this season - mostly because the Devils do have the talent to play with speed. Most of the time the Devils can't figure out how to use their speed effectively though. But last night, especially in the first, they played well in transition and generated a bunch of odd man rushes and even controlled the puck well in the o-zone at 5v5. After the first, the second had it's moments and by the end was kind of meh and the third of course was the same old Devils, a collapse due to mistakes. Luck played a factor, bad reffing played a factor, neither really lost the game for the Devils. The Devils have to be much stronger in their own zone, they have to pass the puck better, and they have to be more consistent with generating dangerous chances throughout the game. Malcolm Subban didn't see much of note after the first period. I don't think the Devils need to be at the top of the league in generating chances from the parts of the ice that you want to, but they need to improve from where they are. I imagine the good play in the first was the result of a general philosophy Nas bestowed upon the team, he didn't have time to offer much more. And my feeling is, it was less about micromanaging and more about, "just play the game you know you can play." I hope after a few games and practices he can get them to look like they did in that period on a more consistent basis.
  19. What did you expect? John Hynes is fired for five hours and the team dramatically changes? They haven't even held a practice since Hynes' firing today. Devils didn't play great though, yeah. After a really good first period, same old, same old. Bad defensive passing, bad passing in general, and they were completely incapable of generating dangerous chances against M. Subban for the latter two periods of the game. Nas has a lot of questions to answer and issues to address now - he has a lot to clean up.
  20. Well, you'd be best suited to talk to that, I don't speak much of the barbaric European languages, at least not enough to know what the rumors are but all I know is that when he signed with ZSC it was reported that the deal was through spring 2021 and had no NHL out cause. That said, if it were possible, he'd be a highly exciting prospect. He's a player's coach and also a thinking man's coach. When he speaks you can tell he is extremely passionate about understanding the game and thinking about it on a deeper level. He is incredibly knowledgeable and has clearly studied almost every system under the sun in the pursuit of aggregating the best methods into one umbrella system - and not just in terms of on ice strategy either, but also in terms of player development. I think that's why he's seen the success he has so far. His one knock has been his lack of experience as the HC of a professional team. But he seems to be well on his way to clearing up any concerns of that nature this year as HC of ZSC. With few roster changes, he's taken a ZSC team that finished in tenth place in the NLA last year (25-20-5) to first place so far this year (16-6-3).
  21. As much as I like him myself, Gronborg is under contract with ZSC through 2021 with no NHL out clause.
  22. The hot takes on a hockey forum of a bottom of the barrel hockey team can get pretty callous and ruthless sometimes - and perhaps rightly so in the name of frustration, but re: the bolded, I'm obliged to completely agree with that take. Still, as we know, no single person can be bigger than the team if you want to win or for that matter run a successful franchise no matter how good the person in question is and I imagine unless the Devils go on some sort of magical run now, Ray waiting this long to drop Hynes won't reflect well on him. That said, people are willing to have short memories given new successes and Ray can start such a trend off with a solid return for Hall.
  23. It's worth pointing out that from almost all accounts John Hynes is a decent human being, so it's not fun that this day had to come but it did have to come given the gap between roster talent and results. The Devils did their best under Hynes to offer some stability to Hall for the first time in his career. Part of that stability was Hynes himself - Hall has openly praised his coaching before - and it'd be my best guess that Hall was supportive of Hynes behind the scenes this entire year. No doubt that Hynes leaving all but seals the deal for Hall's exit from NJ. Amazing how fast things have spiraled downwards since 2017-18. And yet, somehow the future is still bright.
  24. The PK has been weak this year but honestly, as the season has unfolded and looking at the entire Hynes tenure, the only stability really has been Nas's PK system. It makes sense for an interim situation, not a permanent gig. Everyone on that staff has culpability.
  25. I have to [somewhat] agree with Daniel here on PK Subban. That's not to say he hasn't been personally bad at all - he has at times to an extent - or that his skills haven't diminished at all - they have. Many of his numbers across the board have dropped off too - but we have to ask ourselves the reasons for that. It's hard to pin it all on him because it's not like he's producing offense at such an absurdly lower rate than he has before. I know he's been beaten one-on-one a few times - and it's been more than I'd like - but there's no defensman in the league who doesn't get beat sometimes. Almost every defensive strategy employs failsafes for d-men getting beat, especially on the defensive blue line. The Devils are so out of whack at times, there's often just no support and thus, no room for error for the players. Keep in mind as well that PK has had a nine shot game this year. Do you know what the highest shots for a defenseman are in a game this year? 9. And only one other d-man besides PK has done it (Giordano). I'll give you that both PK's 9 and 7 shot games this year came against rather poor defensive teams but 9 shots for a d-man is just not something you see often and it takes skill to pull it off. To be fair, PK's shots haven't been super high danger but the idea with him is that he gets the shot to the net and the forwards finish the job. Only problem is, the Devils are terrible at getting to the high danger zones in front of the net and getting shots off or tips. How many deflected pucks do you even recall the Devils pulling off this year? For the record, this year PK is averaging his fourth-best rebounds created/60 relative to other seasons in his career. Fact is, PK can still break out of the defensive zone, can still carry the puck, and can still generate a lot of offense. No he's not a rocket blasting up the ice, no he's not even close to Norris form, but he has shown signs of being able to play better than he has for the majority of his time under the Hynes playbook. PK also hasn't played much on PP1 with the most dangerous forwards, and as you already know, PP2 can't score a goal to save their lives. Still, at 5v5 PK is first on the team in shot attempts/60 and third in CF%/60. I'll admit of late PK has been worse than he was to start the year, but it's hard for me to tell if that's his 30 year-old legs getting to him or just complete exasperation and confusion. I'm not drawing a super strong conclusion here, but the numbers as well as his observable play lead me to believe there's at least a chance he can be significantly better than what he is right now. Finally, I do believe that there is a serious confidence issue going on among the veterans on this team - this isn't so well thought out on my part, but I'd be lying if I said my eyes weren't seeing that manifest on the ice.
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