Neb00rs

Arizona would make for an interesting trading partner. They have very little cap space. They can fit Hall onto their roster right now given his pro-rated cap hit and the Devils retaining the full 50% of Hall's salary (they would also send Brayden Burke down for a few extra $$$ of space). Typically you'd start to wonder here if Arizona would want to free up a little more room by sending the Devils a roster player as part of the deal. Though, such wouldn't really make sense for a team trying to have all hands on deck for a playoff run - but it's possible. However, it really wouldn't make sense for the Coyotes to be trading away a roster goalie if they're going to give up important assets for a player that likely doesn't re-sign with them all for the sake of making a run this year. When it comes to the actual prospects, yeah, the Coyotes have their share of intriguing defensemen. Soderstrom is most likely off limits, but Kevin Bahl and Kyle Capobianco are likely not. That said, if the Devils are dealing with the Coyotes you can bet they've at least inquired about Ivan Prosvetov - a 6'5 athletic Russian goaltender the Coyotes drafted in the fourth round in 2018. He's quickly emerging into an elite goaltender prospect. He just barely qualifies for the AHL leaderboards (480 TOI min.) but he has the best save percentage in the AHL through his 8 gp (.944) and he also put up a .930 in 5 gp in the ECHL this year. With Adin Hill somewhat stagnating in the AHL I doubt the Coyotes would be pleased to move Prosvetov but if they want to put themselves out in front for Hall that would help. Not sure Ray can pull it off.

Taylor Hall is going to be traded, that's all you really have to know. It's coming.

I'm pretty happy with that effort all things considered. They came out and dominated the first and then got crushed in the second which had me thinking, "Oh here we go, another well played first period followed by and poor second and third." And some of the third was indeed sloppy - especially the PP time which was a big reason the Devils couldn't get back into the game to do anything in time. But ultimately the Devils won that third period at 5v5 pretty handily and came real close to tying it. Or rather, they created chances in which they could have potentially tied it, which is the important thing because that means that in some cases you're going to tie it - even when the opposing goalie is playing as well as Francouz. In the end, despite the fact that the Devils didn't play perfectly, you wonder: if Blackwood played the whole game would the Devils have maybe won? Despite being prematurely thrust into a full-time starter's role, Blackwood is beginning to look really sharp out there on a more consistent basis. He was really on his game tonight on short notice, especially when he first came into the game. He should have played tonight's game and tomorrow's. There's no reason to have started Domingue - even a tired Blackwood is superior enough over Domingue that it's worth playing him at this point. But I get it - slow roll on the young goalie.

I mean, the Devils dominated that period. Wow. Fitting that the PPG goal against came from a penalty they took in the offensive zone.

McLeod in.

Who the hell are you quoting/mocking when you keep pushing this sh!t? This is like an advanced version of a straw man where you don't just make up the opponent's argument but you invent the arguer as well. I can only imagine you do this in order to tell yourself that you're capable of winning an argument against the "spreadsheet" people who you think live under your bed.

7-0-0 is an impressive start. He doesn't have the Flames playing overpowering hockey, but he has the team playing smart and motivated (i.e. effective). That's not to say there's no improvements on paper since his takeover - one place the Flames have improved in a serious way is on the PP. When he left the Devils their PP was certainly trending upwards - a trend that has reversed significantly since his departure.

An offer to Hall of less than six years is akin to telling Hall you don't want to sign him - he's a player who will in all likelihood field multiple seven year offers in UFA this offseason. I think the best of the information out there would suggest that Hall doesn't want to sign anything right now - at least not until he finds himself in a situation that's trending in the right direction. That's not reading between the lines really, it's just listening to what he says. As to your point about it not making any sense for the Devils to be dishing out a long-term contract to Hall right now - yeah, that's right of course given that the season is done for.

I'd actually be interested to hear which "media posts" you're referring to and how you've arrived at such a conclusion. It's possible I missed something but I haven't seen anything that would hint that we know anything about the negotiations. Unless what you mean is that you don't think that the two parties have gotten around to discussing numbers at all - which...maybe...maybe.

I think it's possible that he ends up on this long "list" of Shero's. San Jose performed well under him.

You're missing the point where the Devils have a bunch of areas of need. That's why you need the assets. Florida probably drafted Knight higher than would normally be smart to do so - but from their vantage point going into the draft, they had a pretty complete lineup and system outside of a goalie prospect, so it's at least a bit more understandable. They probably did the right thing but could have drafted a d-man as well. In any case, they didn't have Bobrovsky yet.

Well, I'm not recommending such and it wasn't the operative part of what I was saying but, presumably if you're going to narrow the return you get for Hall, you do it in order to get an asset that is ready to play now, one that can be used to try and salvage the team as it is. In that case maybe you try and re-sign Vatanen. You don't get a Taylor Hall to trade every year, putting the entire return into a single goalie prospect when the team is in need of a lot more than that (soon enough Greene, Vatanen, Zajac, Wood etc... could all be gone too) is not a great way to go. If the prospect fails, you're left with nothing. The draft coming up is fairly deep in the first round and the Devils would do well to compile picks.

Exactly how guaranteed of a thing is Spencer Knight? Did everyone all of a sudden become Spencer Knight psychic experts? Admittedly he is a more well-regarded goalie prospect than we oft seen lately and he's had a strong start to his college career, but he's still a prospect and he's not the only goalie prospect out there. Post-Hall the Devils are going to need a lot more than a goalie. They'll need to replace Hall, they'll still need a no. 1 D, and yes a goalie is part of the equation too, though, Blackwood is still pretty young for a starting netminder. The Devils need assets - draft picks of every position are often duds - the more first rounders you have, the merrier. You might have more of an argument if you were proposing the Devils try and trade for an NHL-ready goalie - at least in that case the goalie could come in and help the current roster - one that, by the way, lost last night with Blackwood playing very well.

To some degree it's true that what you trade Taylor Hall for will reveal what the plan is moving forward. Does Shero believe in the integrity of the core roster? Or as things stand does he think next year is out of the question as well? The issue is that Taylor Hall is a large part of the so-called integrity of the roster and the Devils are kind of forced to trade him, thus making it exponentially more risky to try and salvage what's left of the roster for next year. In other words, if you trade Taylor Hall, whether you like the word or not, the Devils have extended their rebuild a few years down the line. And in this scenario, the Devils shouldn't be looking to risk the Hall chip on a single asset in return, especially not a top goalie prospect. The best way to go is to bring back as many significant assets as possible in order to revamp the prospect pipeline into one that could produce the pieces the Devils will be missing starting next year. If you get a Duchene-like haul (two second tier prospects, a first round pick and a conditional first round pick - and the Devils might have to add in something else) the Devils would then have two first round picks this year, a small shot at two first round picks next year, and an additional two prospects who have NHL potential all added to the pipeline. You could then of course trade Vatanen for a late first or to attempt to recoup some assortment of the second/third round picks that were lost in obtaining Subban and Gusev. Add in Ty Smith who's an NHLer, as well as an assortment of other "maybes" in the Devils system (Talvitie, White, Walsh, etc...) and the system will be in a lot better shape than it is now. And if it's a top goalie prospect you want, then go ahead and use one of your bevy of draft picks on a goalie.

My biggest takeaway from tonight is that the Flames are about to be 6-0-0 under Geoff Ward and look much improved. Milan Lucic has three goals in his past four games (he had zero in his previous 27).

The Avs are in a really good position to get Hall because they can offer the Devils something that many other teams cannot: a chance that Hall re-signs with them, resulting in the Devils receiving the conditional assets involved in the trade. Hall seems destined to make it to UFA, and so Shero trading him to a top team with a bright future would be his most appealing option. I think Hall gets to UFA no matter what and I don't know if Colorado is on his radar, but I think there's at least a better chance that if he goes there he ends up liking the situation and sticking around as opposed to say...Arizona. The only way a second tier team, like Arizona, could end up with Hall is by upping the assets on the unconditional side of the deal - something I'm not sure is worth it for a rental and Arizona would really have to believe their time is now for it to happen. Unfortunately, the Devils are not going to make off like bandits with this trade - Hall is just not going to agree to sign long-term now with any team not named the Toronto Maple Leafs which makes his ability to bring back returns different than say, Mark Stone's. And such has almost certainly backed off some teams from the market but I also don't think the Devils will do so poorly. Taylor Hall is still a dynamic player who changes the way the other team has to play on the ice - even a rental of #9 is going to drive competition for his services. And if Shero can't get the right deal now, he should absolutely hold onto Hall until closer to the deadline when more teams will be financially capable of taking on the part of his salary the Devils don't retain.

Yeah, and I mentioned such re: injury, your greater point is that the ship has sailed. Generally you keep star players around while there's any hope of playoffs remaining - trying to win obviously outweighs risk of injury - but the Devils are cooked and fans going into every game expecting to all of sudden see the playoffs-ready team we all imagined at the onset of the season, are probably going to be continually disappointed, especially with the big task in front of Nasreddine, one which it does not look like he's in a rush to fix quickly with the hopes of a miracle run. Nas hasn't changed almost anything yet in terms of structure on the ice - the team is playing harder and faster, that's about it thus far. But, without going off on a tangent here, yeah, no need to hang on to Hall any longer aside from Shero trying to hold out for his best deal.

I mostly agree with this expectation. Despite fans clamoring about the market being best for trading Hall now, the truth is the market probably won't change much between now and the deadline. For however many more games the receiving team gets with Hall now, at the deadline teams have more money to work with and are more desperate. That said, I get the sense that Hall's status is kind of hanging over the players' heads and ultimately it feels like this team won't be able to begin forging an identity until his situation is dealt with. I'd imagine Ray would be eager to let the team move on mentally. There's also the injury risk of course. I think there's a few teams he could end up on, but if it were to be the Avs it's not unreasonable to think he ends up there before our game in Colorado at the end of this week.

Oh please, to suggest that the gist of your crusade against PK for the better part of your recent tenure on the board has been more about PK's diminishing skills/play and less about some sort of weird attack against his character is laughable at best. I've never had an issue with your hockey-related posts on this board, but your constant vilification of PK Subban, specifically in regard to the ridicule you've directed towards his off-ice behavior long ago descended to the level of shameful and disturbing. This is especially true as the rest of us watch as PK goes out of his way to do bring a positive attitude to the team on the ice and terrific charity work to the community off of it. You have no right to spike the football, at this point you shouldn't be saying anything at all in reference to PK Subban.

There was a time I might have taken this in jest, but the sad thing is, you probably think that making this meme counts as proof that he actually said this.

Not that you have any evidence to support the tanking claim anyway but keep in mind this is literally a team that played to win up until the end last year, knocking their chances of getting the #1 pick down a bit. Luckily they still won the lottery, but still, tanking doesn't seem to be the MO of this organization.

The answers are yes and I don't know. In any case, it doesn't change the fact that you indeed moved the goalposts/are trying to redefine the word tanking. I'm not going to speak to what's going to happen in the future - it seems like Ray wants to see what the team does under Nas. Doesn't matter though, the Devils are not tanking right now. Losing more than you're winning isn't tanking. It's being bad.

This is an incredibly disingenuous way to try and substantiate an obviously stupid assertion that the Devils are tanking. Tanking means to lose as many games as possible, not to trade away assets because it's prudent to do so during a season in which you're not going to make the playoffs. I saw in the other thread you use the term, "my definition of tanking." You lose the argument right there, because you don't get to redefine the word in order to save yourself from having to concede that you have no argument.

Sorry. I know it's a little jumbled - which isn't the best way to paint a picture using stats - but to be fair to me, the actual graph is interactive so that's why I didn't think to distinguish the lines more, but I don't really have any way to upload that version here.