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  1. Haha and yet Zubrus is one of the few players on this team with a decent plus minus rating, if he was garbage his rating would be atrocious with the likes of Ryder Bernier or Brunner. I stated many times and you can go through my posts that Zubrus is starting to wear down but by no means is he useless. What other guys can play PK, PP (when needed) Left Wing Center Right Wing on the third second or first line? Zubrus is a good player to have and a great teammate and he isn't losing us games like Brodeur. Zubrus is a good third liner to have but he's been forced to play top 6 minutes due to our lack of depth. Zubrus is not garbage and the fact you changed the conversation to him really shows how weak your argument for Brodeur is. Will he be a good backup? Possibly but there are quite a few better choices out there, don't be delusional. 

    This entirely. Zubs is limited, but still valuable if used right. Using Marty right is chaining his ass to the bench.

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  2. I can see why that is a worry as Lou's leash has seemingly gotten longer over the past few years with his players.  Plus with Brodeur I could see him just not being able to help himself and sign him to a 1-year deal.  Like CR1976 has said in previous posts Lou's decision on what to do with Marty during the off-season will truly be the test as to whether Lou has officially jumped the shark or not.  Right now I feel it is a 50-50 chance unfortuantely.



    This. Lou cuts ties, he's had some bad luck, but I still trust him. We go in next year with Marty on the roster and Sal still playing over Larsson, he's done.

  3. in the current system the Red Wings would have played have their schedule against Chi, St Louis, Nashville and Minnesota....breaks my heart to see such a "cumbersome" travel schedule...as an east team they go to the West Coast just as much as they would have staying in the Central and not pissed away the league's best rivalry, Columbus needed to move for geographic rival reasons...how come no one in Nashville is upset about the travel? (and aren't they closer to Fla and Washington anyway??) ...oh yeah, they're not the Red Wings....my bad


    they very easily could have had 15 teams in each conference too, it's VERY rare the entire league plays on the same day so it's not that big of a scheduling deal

    Time zone -- Nashville's central, not EST.

  4. Ownership needs to talk with Lou about the GM succession plan. That's a must before everything else. Hearing rumors of McPhee possibly coming here if he gets axed in DC.

    Deboer likely survives but he should be put on notice next year. Some change is necessary at forward still. The mix just isn't good enough and cohesive.

    Agreed on both. The team needs to decide what's going to happen after Lou, especially after a couple of disappointing seasons (not sure if it's Lou's fault entirely, but needs to at least be considered). I think DeBo has done enough with bad rosters to earn another year, but at some point, the coach needs to be accountable, and he's certainly made mistakes.

  5. I feel like this message could've been written about the Devils/Rockies 30 years ago. Something like: Lock up Chico, develop Cirella and Daneyko, acquire some scorers. Then we're set, right? If this is where we are at then we have taken quite a few steps back peeps.

    More like 20 years ago -- develop Nieds, lock up Marty, pick up some scorers. That team had Johnny Mac, so we're behind on that, but otherwise, not much worse. Obviously, we don't have a guy as good as Nieds, but we have 3 good, young, NHL ready defensemen, so if we don't keep riding washed up guys, we're gonna be in decent shape.

  6. Yes you have. The other guy has not.

    Nor has he attacked it. He has given specific, logical, and coherent reasons why he won't drink it, which he is entitled to do.

  7. It has nothing to do with "facts and experience."  Everyone else in this thread is an unbiased consumer talking about the beers they buy and drink, while you obviously have a vested interest in supporting the bigger guys that your store sells more of.

    This. I've defended Goose's taste, even if I don't like the way the Big 3 carry themselves. 

  8. So are you 2 telling me that I am not allowed my own opinion/perspective?  You are correct and I am wrong???  Both of you, and others, can see it anyway you please.  I haven't criticized anyone.  I just stated how I read the article.  If that is a problem, it is your problem not mine. :glare:


    The masses have spoken.  Agree with them or be prepared to be ostracized. Dare not feel free to think and post.  That is a no-no.  Between this and the constant calling out of selected posters, I am really starting to hate this place. :angry:

    FWIW, that's not the tone I got from their responses -- they argued against your perspective, but that's what we're here for. I didn't see it as personal.

  9. I generally have no clue the pulse of your average Devils fan outside of this message board, but the more I have looked around lately with regards to the goalie situation, the more I see the exact same thing. The average fan sees Brodeur as an average goalie and not much difference between him and Schneider. It's pretty sad actually.


    A lot of it comes down to the Devils team defense and GAA. Fans see a GAA of 2.51, or the scores that are the accumulation of these stats and don't think much else. They don't really realize how good the team's defense is and how few shots the Devils actually give up. When you give up so few shots, no matter how bad the goalie is...you aren't consistently going to get scored on so much. I think about the Leafs and James Reimer. He has not played well lately, but on the year has not been that atrocious. His save percentage is actually .006 better than Brodeur's (.908 to .902), but because he plays in front of the worst defense in the NHL, Reimer almost gives up a goal more a game (currently at 3.35). Throw Brodeur on most teams around the NHL, and he'd be embarrassed to no end with that save percentage.  Edit: Forgot to add that Reimer has taken the blame for the Leafs collapse.


    Yet, so many members of the MSM sight GAA like it means a thing, but around the league, you'll see tons of goalies that stop pucks better, but will give up more goals every night.


    Of course, a lot fans just have an unabashed love for Marty.

    Part of the problem is Marty's save % has always been a little low, because of the Devils shot counting, and because of the defenses he played in front of. He used to make huge saves. Just watch video of him in his prime. Now he doesn't, but since we're used to (rightfully) defending him, even when his % hasn't been special, it's weird getting used to the % telling us exactly what kind of goalie he is. Unless you watch him a lot, and especially watch video of him when he was younger, and watch Schnieds get to pucks he doesn't get to anymore, you don't realize how bad he is now.

  10. Ryder's got almost 20 goals, on a pretty favorable contract, not to mention he's probably due for another little surge within the games remaining (considering the number of quality chances he's had in the past few weeks and scoring in that Minnesota game).


    As a team that can't score to save itself, we shouldn't be so picky and we should take what we can get. A streaky scoring player who eventually puts up the numbers (albeit, at his own pace) on the 2nd or 3rd line is perfectly fine if our upper lines were better. Ryder's not "the problem".


    Hell, I'm fine if we keep signing him to 2 year deals for the long-haul until he retires and keep him here as a Sykora-figure. Most of everyone on this board was pissed off that we let Sykora and his 20+ goals go a couple years ago; Ryder's pretty much "that guy" (don't forget, Sykora had his cold streaks where we wondered if he was too old to compete).


    So yeah, my verdict is we keep Ryder for the long-run. He won't exert himself or play physically, but that shot of his will probably be there til he hangs them up, and beggars can't be choosers. Those 5-10 games at a time where he's scoring and assisting like a madman, that's more than worth the price of his services, and for a long time was keeping us afloat on a long stretch of games (with Henrique too, of course).

    And this ties into why I don't want another "Devils type" player. We have a lot of role players/system guys. We need top line talent. At least 1 star. I'd hoped this team would turn out like '03, but Elias isn't as good anymore (not his fault -- he's old), and, while Jagr's been huge, that team had Gomez and a ton of offense from Rafa and Nieds that this blue line just doesn't produce.

  11. Wait a minute...what cup contender?  The only time this organization has seriously "contended" for the Cup since 03 and not completely flamed out early, or missed the playoffs entirely was 2012; which Kovy was a very, very big part of.  I agree that systems have a part, but at the end of the day, X's and O's will only take you so far...you still need players that have the raw ability and talent to both create and finish offensively.  Right now, the Devils are seriously lacking in that department.   

    This. I get that Kovy didn't work out perfectly, but when he was on, the team was very good,and he played a huge role. I'm not saying you bring in ANY talented player.and I'm certainly not saying offer a stupid contract (a mistake we DID make with Kovy, that I'm hoping we do learn from) but in the end, great players usually figure out ways to be successful. 

  12. Fvck Devils players. We need good players. We have a ton of grinders who fit the system. We need good players. 


    Also, I think the system thing is overrated. Kovalchuk played well, even though his numbers weren't as good. Especially the Cup year, when he was healthy and comfortable. Jagr's numbers are better this year because he's on the top line instead of the 3rd -- he was good the past two years, even if the numbers aren't there. 


    If we can get some combination of Moulson, Statsny. Ryan in the next 2 years, I'll be happy.

  13. Not to say Chico didn't adequately display emotion, but sometimes he gave too much credit to the other team. fvck the other team. I want my home color guy to focus on what the Devils are doing wrong if they're fvcking up- I don't need him slobbering the opposition, which I think Chico has a tendency to do sometimes in order to prove to some he's not as big of a homer as he's perceived to be. I don't want Dano to be afraid to be a homer. Team color guys are supposed to be homers.

    I'm the opposite. I know what the Devils are doing wrong; I watch every game. The commentators get paid at least in part for their ability to impart information to me on the other team, which I'm less likely to know. I have no problem with color guys being homers, but I also want to hear more about the other team. It's the main reason I hate the Rags guys.


    Also, Doc and Chico are my favorite team ever, and while Doc was obviously the best, Chico played a huge part in that for me as well. I think Cangi and Dano will be fine -- Cangi's gotten much better -- but Chico, with all his imperfections, was special. He was also one of the nicest guys I've ever met. It was great listening to him, especially when Doc teased him, and I wish him nothing but the best.

  14. Well it's about overhauling the scouting system. A ton of teams have had success doing that. You don't bottom out, but you trust that you have the right people in place to make good selections from any position in the draft.


    We can discuss Lou's future, but I don't think it ever ends with a firing. That is a scary proposition for the new owners. If the Devils continue to struggle, the last one that will face heat from fans will be Lou.


    So, if Deboer does come back, and the team struggles, he'll probably get the axe. Maybe if the team struggles with a new coach, do we finally see Lou take some real blame.

    Which is bull. I don't know that anyone's to blame -- you don't bounce back from losing Zach and Kovy in consecutive years. If this goes on for long, then you have a problem. Right now, we're having a season that is, if anything, better than it should be. If, however, you are going to blame someone, the roster isn't very good. That's not DeBoer's fault.

  15. You mean that defense that is among the best on the league at shots against.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    This. Stevens is getting better. Doesn't mean I think he'd be a good head coach -- don't know that he has the patience to deal with young players and losing, definitely doesn't have the experience, and, while to some degree assistants are there for a reason, I'd rather have somebody with a good offensive system (like DeBo actually) trying to get the most out of this team, since their weakness is forward.

  16. In PDB's case, before I could think about canning him, I'd have to see what else is out there.  Laviolette?  He's got a solid record from a pure wins and losses standpoint, and led a team to a Cup, though the league was so screwed up in that first season back after the strike that I really don't make that much of that Cup win.  I guess you can make an argument for giving Laviolette a shot, but I don't know how much of a difference he'd ultimately make.  It would feel like change for change's sake.  Like you say, the one thing you can say in PDB's defense is his team does TRY..they may not always look good doing it, but it does look like they're trying to me.     


    Re:  Lou...the two main arguments you can make for him being fired are that maybe he's simply been here too long and now it's time for a change, and that a new GM coming in here without loyalties to any of the current players might be more willing to truly shake things up.  The fact that some people do want him canned is actually a testament to how long this team has been competitive.  Missing the playoffs in potentially three out of four seasons is a major shock to a lot of Devils fans' systems, and this is Lou's first real down period in over 25 years on the job.  How GMs last even 10 years in their positions, let alone 20+? 


    On one hand, you look at a guy who has Lou's insanely overall terrific track record and say "He should get a chance to turn this around."  But I'd be lying through my teeth if I said I felt 100% confident that Lou can turn this around.  I honestly don't know.  It's going to take some serious creativity to change and improve this roster, especially since there's a fair number of forwards here that don't exactly have loads of trade value.  I really hope Marty is not back next year...nothing against him, but I think his presence is becoming more overwhelming by the day, and not in a good way.  If Lou brings him back, then I think he's truly stuck in the past.  I've said that Lou keeping Marty around would be his equivalent to jumping the shark, and if that happens, I don't really know how much I can believe in him anymore. 


    I also can't say that the idea of the post-Lou Devils doesn't intrigue me.  It does.  It will be such upheaval...Jesus, for just about every Devil fan, Lou practically IS the Devils!  As much as I can't imagine him not being the GM, I'm still curious about what his not being around could potentially mean.  Better?  Worse?  I'm not as afraid or saddened by the idea of chance as I am curious. 


    So basically, I won't be angry if they're both back next season, but I won't be saddened if they're both gone either.  Like Tom McVie once said when he asked about being an interim coach:  "It's always on an interim basis."  Same for GMs I guess.  It's so weird to even think that Lou won't be here someday...I don't even really know how to process the idea. 

    This. I'm starting to be concerned about Lou. I don't blame him at all for losing Parise or Kovy, or for failing to replace them, but I'm concerned how sentimental the Devils have gotten. When they had no young talent, I was fine with them riding the vets, for better or worse, but Volch or Sal should have been amnestied, or traded for nothing, to free up spots for the young d. If that wasn't an option, they should have traded Fayne to break up the logjam, but instead, they have good kids sitting when IMHO they need to learn to skate with the big boys. I think Lou deserves another season or two to rebuild post Kovy, but if he makes a sentimental move for Marty, he's done. Also, if we have to blame someone, and I don't know if we do, it should be Lou over PDB. I don't agree with everything DeBo's done by a long shot, but he's had a terrible group of forwards, and is still managing to win more games than he should.


    Finally, it's weird seeing guys who were larger than life start to get older. It's obviously true with Marty and I'm starting to get afraid it's true with Lou. It may very well be time for both of them to go, but, much as I've liked what I've seen from Schneids, there is no way this franchise is as good with a new goalie and GM as it was with Lou and Marty in their primes. We were lucky enough to watch 2 of the all time greats, possibly the best ever at their respective jobs, work for a very long time. No matter what the future holds, we're going to be telling our grandkids about watching the Devils of Lou and Marty.

  17. Devils fans have been hostile before, but we're pretty good about pulling punches when kids are around. Also, if the other team's fans start sh!t, we have the right to respond. I'm not cool with the homophobia, but it sounds like that was mostly him. All in all, a sh!tbag comes into our arena, gets kicked out for being a sh!tbag, and we look bad? Fvck him.

  18. It woudl be nice to hear an unbiased assessment of the team in the news.  I mean - it's time to bash players who suck.  Why does no one says Salvador sucks in the press? Why does no one call DeBoer out on Salvador.  Not as in Why is larsson in Albany  - that's easy to answer.


    "Why is Salvador playing?"  "He bring spit to the team" "no, no he actually doesn't" 

    "we're really happy with what he brings to the team"  "Well it really doesn't translate to the on ice product Pete -- you shouldn't be happy"


    Why does someone not say "Having Sal continually fake aches is not a good thing -- it's not a solution.  Take the C away - it's the first step to admitting YOU ARE ON THE WRONG COURSE!  YOU'RE VISION IS WRONG!  Seriously.  At least it sends a message that you understand that.


    I mean -- if we want to make sure these guys know something isn't working why do we all only say Marty sucks?  Marty getting aged is the least of this teams problems -- why is that the sole problem the press latches on to?  It's not real. 

    Agreed. I like Sal, and am willing to believe he's a great locker room presence, but his on ice product is just sad. Seeing him play over Larsson would bother me even if I wasn't interested in Larsson's future. At this point, Sal isn't much better than Mike Mottau.

  19. look at the upcoming ufas, then if there's any we'd have to overpay big time, then look at our trades options, we have nothing plus most of our scorers will be gone in a few years so yeah... 

    We got Zach with a crappy pick. Elias was a second rounder. We got our pick back this year. I'm not saying we WILL get guys of that caliber, but I'm not willing to go all doom and gloom when we have good young d and will most likely have a good goalie hitting his prime. At worst, that keeps us in contention for a playoff spot every year. If we get a little lucky at forward, we're in good shape.

  20. There's a reason for that -- he's the farthest one from the ice and farthest from having an impact on the outcomes of games.  There's a hierarchy of blame, and it is as follows:


    1- Players.  Players play, and coaches coach.  A goalie lets in a weak goal?  He shoulders the blame.  A player takes a stupid penalty and that costs his team a goal and/or the game?  It's on him


    2-  Coaches.   So the players are playing well, but the decisions, strategy, formations, call-ups, etc do not make sense.  That's on the coach.  Not motivating his team?  Also on him.  Team choking when it matters or unable to hold leads?  On him.


    3-  GM.  The GM is third on the list because the only thing he can really be blamed for is bringing in the wrong coach or players, or spending money in the wrong places.  The former is hard to prove right away because it takes players AND coaches a while to form chemistry, run their own system/style, and so forth.  The latter doesn't happen that often unless you're Glen Sather -- most GMs, especially Lou, are pretty good at spending money on the right players. 


    4- Owner.  Most owners are hands-off and just serve as bank accounts for the GMs to build and construct teams.   We've had our share of screw ups in that department recently, as have other teams (i.e. the Lightning with those 2 clowns from the movie industry before Vinik took over who btw has just been a phenomenal owner), but other than that it's pretty easy to be an owner.

    Our players aren't that good, and Larsson's in Albany for Sal. That's on Lou. At least to some degree -- losing Zach and Kovy was bad luck/timing.

  21. Lol are you somewhat denying that we didnt suck in the last few seasons and will not suck for another while? wow. Thats denial.

    Considering we're in good shape at 2 of 3 positions if we re-sign Schneids, and not in terrible shape with the cap, you don't know and neither does he. If we can't bring in a couple of high end forwards, we will suck. If we can, which is not beyond the realm of possibility, we won't.

  22. Yes and i dont see this as ridiculous at all cause it was a total fluke really and you guys keep on saying Zach is useless in the playoffs and not clutch at all, only scoring empty netter, a ghost and bla bla bla but to make a point that we absolutely needed him suddenly.


    and how about the hindsight that we didnt win the cup and has struggle ever since Zach left ? and will continue to suck for at least a few years. Losing Zach was the first domino in that whole mess. He was the heart and soul of the team. If you want to use the fluky cup run as a measurement stick well go ahead. The real devils team is the one out of the playoffs, 4 years, missing the playoffs 3 times... the cup was the fluke not the 3 years

    So we would have gotten fair value for Zach that would ensure we don't suck? At best, we get draft picks and a couple Ryder type guys. Our team would therefore look exactly the same, with maybe one more prospect in the system. The only was we get another superstar for Zach is if 1) the team knew he was going to re-sign (not happening, since the only teams he wanted to join were us and the Wild), and 2) the team was stacked in goal or on d and needed forwards (not useful to us, since we have a ton of good d in the system, will hopefully lock Schneider up long term). I get that you want something rather than nothing, but a run to the finals is more valuable to the Devils than any pieces they would have gotten for Parise. And Clarkson wasn't bringing much back either. It's not easy to be a GM. Not saying Lou's done perfectly, but no matter how many times you've criticized him, you've yet to come up with a coherent thing he could have done better.


    And btw, much as I've defended Lou this season, if he retires at the end of the year, I think it's entirely possible we'll be better off. I just don't think his refusal to trade guys like Zach and Clarkson is the reason.

  23. For those who are interested in whiskey beers, try Brooklyn Brewery's Wild Streak. I didn't like it as much as the whiskey stout they released a couple years ago, but in a similar way, they did a great job brewing a beer whose flavors would complement the whiskey flavor from the barrels rather than being drowned out by them. This one was a Belgian ale, almost a saison, and the sour Belgian notes transitioned nicely into the richer, sweeter whiskey flavors. All in all, a tasty, complex beer, one that understood what it was getting into, rather than using the flavor from the barrels as an excuse. Brooklyn really seems to get it with the whiskey beers, unlike the brewers who use it as a novelty.

  24. Even if it was a 50/50 split from the crowd of people wanting to wish Parise well and others angry as fvck, the negative reactions will always win out. Even if it was 80/20. Are pro-Parise fans going to cheer him on every time he touches the puck? Of course not. The fans that are angry will be booing all night.


    I've been saying my piece on Parise since July 1st 2012. I thought his decision was fine. He didn't quit on anything. He didn't demand a trade. Do we as fans ever care about the players that wanted to stay, but weren't offered contracts. Maybe Brian Rafalski and Brian Gionta wanted to be lifelong Devils and Lou didn't offer them contracts. In that case, they were let down by the franchise? Did we feel for them or think they were wronged? Do we care when a player takes a hometown discount to stay in NJ and then gets traded or bought out? Most fans get angry when players turn refuse to waive their NTC when they are asked to be traded.


    In the end, the player is hurt just as often as the fan is, but the fan always sides with the team. If Parise ended up taking $25 million less to stay with NJ (realistic if he passed on Philly's gigantic offer), and then produced at a similar rate, the team struggled and Lou was able to get someone to take his him in a trade, Parise would probably feel betrayed after choosing the Devils and your average fan would probably celebrate the transaction, and give two sh!ts about the human side of things.


    With Zach, a lot of people will find reasons for hating Zach's decision. But it didn't matter what he did or didn't do leading up to the decision. People loved Zach. They loved the 2012 run. They thought he was a prototypical Devil and could spend his entire career here. He let them down by leaving. That's all. I don't think anyone was more devastated than Lou. Is that worth venomous hate? Apparently, so.


    I tend to like the way Lou does business, but I also side with the player sometimes. I agreed with Gio being allowed to leave, but I always cheer him and Rafa. Madden is one of 2 jerseys I wear. It took me awhile to forgive the Yankees when they let Pettitte go as well, and if it came down to him pitching against them, I honestly don't know for whom I would have cheered. I'm more of a d!ck then you toward guys, less forgiving, but to me being a fan IS personal, and while I often root for laundry, I try to make educated judgments about the guys wearing that laundry.

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