Joe B
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Posts posted by Joe B
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It was a joke in seasons past... but right now, I think it's accurate as a pre-season rank. We've coasted off the past for the past few seasons and it's time to re-establish the Devils as a legitimate force.That's going be hard to do with goaltenders past their prime, and our #1 center out for a few months. This team needs to step it up and prove their worth... And hopefully we'll all be grateful when we're back in the top 10, 5, etc
I understand they haven't gotten out of the first round in a few years, but (prior to last year) they did win the division 3 out of 4 years with 100+ point seasons. How is that coasting?
As much as the Islanders sucked, they had an amazing second half.Toronto finished ahead of us... and people like the Avs prospects.I'm not saying we're a bad team, or that we are missing the playoffs. But it's not a ridicuolous statement to say we are in the bottom 10 of the league right now as a pre-season rank. You can argue where we fall. And Burnside won't give us the benefit of the doubt. But in years past, we were ranked 20th, etc for absolutely no reason other than - they are bound to fail sometime, right?So I'm fine with a 20-25 rank preseason... if we're as good as we think, we'll move up quickly.
and as much as the devils sucked, they had a better second half season. (26-7-3 to end the season) but the isles deserve a better spot because they had an amazing second half?
The devs don't always get the respect they deserve (from the media) and in general I don't really care, but those 2 points you made just jumped out at me though.
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People think White was bought out to make 5 available for Larsson. Lou actually bought out White so #5 can be retired as well for Tom Kurvers being the trade bait to get Nieds.
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Gotchya'. I think they are either A) blowing smoke up your butt or B) they really just do not have a clue. Sites like stubhub and ebay, the repeal on the ban of ticket scalping, and the increase in face value has killed the secondary market for tickets. Especially sporting events.
I'm confused, how has stubhub killed the secondary market for tickets? Stubhub basically is the secondary market. And as a season ticket holder for a while (not the last few years, pre stubhub) I could barely give extra tickets away let alone let alone get face value(not that I tried to get rid of many). I'm guessing it's easier to sell them nowadays, although you just wont get much more then what the cheapest seats in the house goes for. Unless you are saying the those sites killed the monopoly that scalpers/brokers had.
I think stubhub his basically doing the market research for every sports teams. I'd bet that the discounted season ticket offers this year(the 22 or 28's behind the net) and tiered pricing are based on what tickets were going for on those types of sites. If I owned stubhub I would look into providing teams with in depth analysis for a not so small fee of course.
Joe
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The team never seemed to recover after playing with a short roster those few games. Lou set the team up to fail...hate to say it. Perfect storm of sh!tty things happened at the start and it Johnny Mac wasn't in the right man to get through it.
I'm sorry, did I not see an almost 20 game winning streak in the second half?
Lou took a risk, got screwed with 2 injuries and a suspension which caused the really short bench. Injuries happen but the suspension was avoidable which is why PL3 didn't see the NHL the rest of the year and he is no longer with the org. Set up the team to fail? really? Other teams have played shorthanded a game or 2 before. The devils have done it in the past during good seasons so that is not a reason for a team to implode.
I'm sure the less then max roster didn't help but to say Lou set up the team to fail because of it is off the mark. Loosing a guy you brought in to be your top shutdown defenseman had more to do with the teams slump then not dressing a full roster. I'm not sure why the injury to A-train doesn't get more attention.
Joe
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I'm not happy but I'm not 'the sky is falling' upset.
2 questions.
$6 mil? Coming off of an injury that forced you to miss basically a season, is a $1 mil bump in actual salary (as an RFA) market value or a little over? Are they in the ballpark $$ wise but not length? I guess I'm asking if there are any clues with 6 mil.
Why sign today? why not wait until weds to announce it? Either Zach want to test FA or Lou doesn't trust his knee. Any other reason?
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deleated because it's the wrong thread
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Yea, we were great with Parise last year (iajmf). Listen we definitely lack depth and a star d-man as of right now, you can admit that or divert and continue to talk about how good our top forward line is. Again, I see us making the playoffs as a 6-8 seed. Cup contenders I don't see us as unless was add someone else.
And the cap space (depending on what Zach signs for) will be useful in a deadline deal when more questions will be answered(injuries, larsson, etc). I liked rolston, but he is replaceable. Which young player steps up is a valid question/concern though.
If Hunter out performs rolston this year, then i actually feel sorry for the islanders. this deal had almost nothing to do with Trent Hunter and everything to do with Rolston. When you say "outside of a salary dump" it essentially makes the argument pointless. I could say, "besides what happens on the ice", this deal doesn't favor the isles.
How was the play Mrs. Lincoln?
As for Hunter, maybe getting off the Island will do him good. If he becomes a sligthly above average 4th line/ pk / hit anything that moves(and you can catch up to) guy I'd be happy. Anything else is pure gravy. I also feel this is a make or break year for Clarkson.
Joe
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x2.
What was the story of that one player that was late for a flight or wasn't dressed properly and Lou traded him almost immediately afterwards?
Unless I am forgetting something, the only situation I can think of was Johnny mac going public with his trade request(demnd?) and then getting shipped real fast. Might have even been scratched a game, not sure. Also, I think a goon(hmm, sahsha lakovic, anyone with a lil help?) got traded after jumping in mall fountain on a dare. I don't see Lou trading a guy for 1 indecent of being late, that might have been the last straw however.
Remember what he did to Scott Neidermayer and Scott held out for a while.
You don't even troll the board correctly anymore. What exactly did Lou do to Scotty after he held out. Every quote from both sides said the business side and hockey side are different. I'm sure part of Scotty's decision to leave was the 2 holdouts, but I can't think of a thing Lou did to Nieds other then negotioating. If you want to give an example from the previous CBA's with RFA's holding out, Guerin would be a better example basically telling him that of his holdout lasted too long he wouldn't pick him for the olympic(or was it the canada cup where stevens and guerin either dropped the gloves or came damn close(nhl teamates fighting during an international tourney was a great hockey moment imo)
and I didn't want to waste a post on it, but the marty dig in a thread as a tribute to Doc is amazing. i can't even begin to say what I want because I would be banned and despite me not reading this board for years at a time because of you specifically and others for bashing Lou(or whoever happens to be the whipping boy that hour) for each and everything they do from supposed fans of the teams, I still enjoy this site and like to throw in my opinion every now and then and point out when someone says anything incredibly stupid.
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This is all conjecture and speculation. For all we know, Zach could be swimming in Lou's pool right this minute, drinking a pina colada. Truth is that none of us have any idea of the true nature of the relationship or what's actually going on. I don't remember any Devils free agent ever saying to the press "yea, Lou and my agents are talking every day, there is great communication and we're very close to wrapping this thing up." These things with the Devils have always been hush hush and a large reason for that is because Lou likes to keep leverage on other teams / GMs, and the more transparent you are, the less leverage you have.
That being said, do you really, honestly believe that Lou hasn't spoken to Zach about his intentions or his plans? Do you really think Zach is sitting there all summer not knowing what's going on? Don't forget that this is the same player that Lou invited to sit at the head of the table, directly to Lou's right, during the draft. Or that Zach is the player that took it upon himself to answer probably 50+ fan questions for TG.
Is Johnny Mac the last player to go public demanding a trade or talking about their contract?
I'm sure Zach knows how the team treats him because he has been in the org for a while. I wouldn't think waiting a month or 2 will trump the last 6(?) years.
Back to the thread topic, reguarding the extra $100k if the negotiations go past friday 5pm. Does it count against the cap? I would assume no but the league never ceases to amaze me.
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It was the second game of the year, that 7-2 loss to the Caps where Leblond got suspended for foolishly getting into a fight with under five minutes left when we were already playing with a short roster. I didn't realize he also said something contreversial, but either way it was understandable why he was basically locked out of NJ from then on.
instigating the fight with less then 5 mins which is an automatic suspension when the team was short a player (or 2) due to the cap and at least 1 injury in the game(a-train?). If it was a aggressive hit that got him suspended it wouldn't have been as idiotic(kinda like peters not having the jersey tied down, you are a fighter, know all the fighter rules)
I was pretty sure he would never wear a devils sweater again and I know I'm not the only one.
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If this gets down to August 1 and Parise's still not signed or signs at the last minute before the hearing then you know the cap had nothing to do with the delay.
It's not August 1 though.
I'm always shocked when someone has been a fan of this team for any length of time expects anything different for Lou. He works at his own pace. He is deliberate with his decisions. Most rumors you hear about this team turn out to be false. It's been that way for 20 years. I really don't see what he has done this off season he hasn't done any other off season. retained a few fa's, picked up talent for the AHL(the kinkaid signing pre free agency was a nice present and seems to be overlooked). To me Lou is ahead of where he normally is this time of year. Maybe the lack of playoff hockey just makes it seem longer.
Priorities. Larsson, coach then Zach. Not that Zach isn't the most important of the 3, it's that he deadlines seem to fall in that order.
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Absolutely not. That has just been my feeling for the past 2-3 years
I simply feel that Zach's desire to win is so strong that he wont be able to stop himself from signing a deal with the team he sees as the one that is closest to a championship, and I just dont think he is going to see NJ as that team.
obviously this next season has to be played, yet I think unless the Devs win at least one round & show strong losing in the 2nd (hopefully 3rd or Final round) he will move on.
So missing the playoffs or losing in the first round seems to me like the catalyst that has him choose another team in July '12.
by that logic going into last year Boston wasn't near a cup win either. I know they got out of the first round, but I thought they underachieved the last few years.
Just like all the Julien love now. He's won a cup and nothing will take that away, but I didn't hear how Lou was wrong after Boston blew a 3-0 series lead.
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I'm still trying to figure out why this is news? What exactly changed in the last 2 weeks since the last TG post that there was no contract negotiations on going?
Did anyone else seriously think that a deal would be done prior to the draft? Did anyone else think that Lou wouldn't elect to choose arbitration so Zach cant get offers? Again, there is a fairly long window after the draft and probably after the coaching decision is made where the 2 sides can have their full attention to the negotiations and get a deal done. This is how I saw it since the end of the season. Not sure why everyone is concerned Zach would take it as a slight. His dad was in the nhl, I'm sure he's known there is a business side to this game since he was 10 years old. If he was truly concerned that he is being overlooked. He or his agent could get in touch with Lou and ask. Every quote I've seen he's said he wants to be on this team and thinks the team wants him as well. He's not disappointed and that he understands so why the big fuss.
Now. A week before the arbitration date and they haven't started talking, I'll get concerned.
Other than Nieds(and possibly Rafalski), Lou signs who he really wants to sign.
I know it's all new with all the instant news with twitter and blogs and such, but I still like the fact that Lou holds his cards close to his vest. Of course as a fan I'd like to know ever single detail of whats going on, but that's not how you should run a franchise. I also prefer hearing status quo then misinformation.
Maybe it's just me though. I would think if you have been a fan of this team for more then a couple years, you would be used to it by now.
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I'm glad.
Lou should be working on the draft and coaching decision.
Accept the arbitration so Zach can't get offers. Contact the agent or Zach in the 3 - 4 weeks before the hearing. Deal will be done in 2 or 3 days once it's started.
This is such a non story and it is the one thing that annoys me with TG.
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only kovalchuk reached UFA - for this exercise, we'll say parise signs before he's ufa also.
i think that zetterberg is the most comparable. his deal was a 12 year, $73MM deal. while i think zetterberg will age better than parise, they're similar enough.
i do think parise would sign a 10/60 deal and i would absolutely give it to him. i'd be concerned about the last 2 years being fairly overpaid, but that's so far away. who knows what the cap will be, let alone the contract rules of the NHL.
i would structure the deal at something like 7, 9, 10, 9, 8, 7, 5, 3, 1, 1
if he wanted 8/56, i'd do that too. he could argue that he's younger than zetterberg and so should get at least the same deal. he could argue that he's better than nash and should get that deal. i don't think he could because again, i think columbus had to overpay for nash.
now, for cap purposes, i'll give him a $7.5MM cap hit (i think it will be less). as you correctly pointed out, the 2012-2013 has loads of room for that kind of cap number. i'm going to stretch it as much as possible with the highest possible acquisitions with parise at that number to show what kind of team the devils could ice next year (the only year i really care about cap wise):
does that deal fit with the new rules post kovy's debacle? I don't remember all the new rules, but comparing older contracts might not be apples to apples anymore.
Also, is there a restriction on extending contracts of a UFA, prior to free agency depending on a one year deal via arbitration or regularly bargained? I thought one way you can't renegotiate until after the season while the other you could. Again I could be mistaken.
My best case scenario is a 1 year (non arbitrated (filing but getting it done before hand is still fine). Pay Zach what you can like the knee didn't happen. Explain the money opens up next year but the paying like the knee didn't happen shows the good faith on Lou's end. which in turns Zach returns by negotiating on good faith prior to become UFA. Don't let offer sheets get into play at all. Work out ranges for offers for the following year to make sure you are both on the same page and everyone wins(except the manic depressives on this board who will go a year thinking that Lou should be fired because he will 100 loose Zach cause he is the worst GM ever or however you think they would react)
I think this is pretty much what tri said but I don't have all the purrty pictures. it involves trust by both parties, but when Lou really wants someone he usually gets it. Nieds and Rafalski are the major exceptions. I never got the feeling he truly wanted Paul Martin to stay or Gomez or Gio a those prices.
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I was thinking he's not a baseball fan -- probably the movie...
didn't he take batting practice swings before a twins game a year or two ago? If he did, I'm assuming he's a baseball fan.
Joe
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Interesting Reply from Zach, question asked by a fan via the TG blog
Lou has never been one to talk contracts prior to a player reaching their UFA year. As a player can you tell us whether or not you think that has an effect on whether or not the player remains?
(Asked by Jeff)
I think at times it may have a little impact. Everyone knows that Lou does things a certain way and prefers to wait until the season is over in order to not make it a distraction for a player. I can’t speak for anyone else, but sometimes a player may think, “Why not wait an extra two months until July 1 to see what kind of interest there is out there?”
So you are skipping the part where Zach says he didn't even talk to his own agent about it? If he hasn't spoken to his own agent, I'm not sure how worried he is at this present moment. My guess is that Lou's priorities are draft/coach then devils rfa/ufa signings then league wide rfa's. Unless there is another undrafted free agent is out there that would fit this team.
Zach: How interested are you in signing with the Devils this of off-season? How long of a deal? Do you have any interests in signing with another organization?
(Asked by Jon R)
I have a feeling I may be getting this one a lot! Of course I am interested in staying here. I really like my teammates and I like the area that I live. It is a demanding, but fun place to play and a lot is expected of you. As far as contract details I really have no idea we haven’t gotten into conversations with my agent about that yet.
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/fireice/comments/zach_parise_answers_your_questions_part_1/
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I'm not an expert by any means but I can't see a coach from the SEL with no NHL coaching experience working out well. It just seems like it would be too drastic for a jump.
Again, not sure who the good coaches in the SEL are but is there anyone besides Ulf Dahlen(always loved his name) who played in the NHL, scouted here, assisted in Dallas then coached over there with success(not saying Ulf had sucess, asking if anyone has had sucess with a similar career path)?
Not sure if Lou would pull off a move like that right after Johnny Mac, but who knows with Lou. He was one of the first to get Russian players with Fetisov and Starikov. He wasn't afraid to have US college players on the team(it wasn't that common 15 - 20 years ago). I think with the way Rafalski blossemed in the SEL, then translated it to the NHL game it alowd him to be confident to draft more Sweedes. It wouldn't be too big of a leap logically for me thinking a coach from a different league (I admit there has to be some familiarity with the NHL game). It would have to be the right person, which is where I just don't know who if anyone would have the credentials, and want to come back to the NHL.
Just throwing it out there
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With the new owner in Buffalo it might be a long shot now but I've always like Ruff(even as a player) and wouldn't mind him behind the Devils bench. Assuming there is still some friction between Lindy and the GM, what would be the best playoff result for the Sabre's in order to free him up.
I have been rooting for them to be Philly becasue you know, it's Philly, but would a first round exit make it easier for the team to part with the coach? I don't see how a coach would leave after winning 2 rounds, but would a second round exit be enough? Does it really not matter what happens in the playoffs and it all comes down to the releationship between coach/gm/owner?
Just throwing it out there becasue I'm bored and I really want to continue rooting for the flyers to lose but if the possiblility of Ruff behind the Devils bench increases I wouldn't mind it as much(as long as they don't get out of the second round and the rangers collapse starting the the third period continues by getting shut out game 5)
Yeah, I admit it, I'm bored (and won't pretend to have a clue as to who will become the best prospect if drafted into our system)
although if Larson is selected, with Josefson, teddy, Tallinder, and Urbom in the system, what would the odds of getting a coach from the SEL? We must have some scouts there since we got a relativly unknown rafalski from there as well. I woulnd't even pretend to have a name in mind either. Just some outside the box thinking that Lou may consider. Maybe if it's just an assistant coach or 'consultant'. The possibility ran thru my mind before Johnny Mac was hired as well, I just thought they groomed him and there was no way he wasn't getting the job.
any help from those who follow the SEL on possible fits for a coach over here?
Joe
<edited for - Rafalski did make the top of a sporting news best player not playing in the nhl list so that was a bit off the mark>
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Marty was the #3 ranked goalie in his draft class, behind Trevor Kidd who was #1 and someone else who is on the tip of my tongue now. You never know what happens. I will not hold my breath, but I really would like at least a solid goalie for the future.
Felix Potvin.
And yes I wiki'd it
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1990_NHL_Entry_Draft
Glad I did because for some reason I was thinking Kirk Mclean
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Some hits and misses in there, but thank god mostly hits. Since Lou took over he had 2 hits and 1 miss, but the 2 hits were pretty big ones, especially in 91 which I believe he traded up for.
Kinda suprised no one corrected this.
The devils traded Tom Kurvers (the thing I distinctly remember about him was that he couldn't keep the puck in the zone at the point on the PP, was years ago and at the begining of my going to games so take that assesment with a grain of salt) to toronto for their 1st round pick in 91(early in the season, not at the draft). Hoping to get Lindros of course. Not sure how Lou would have handled Lindros not wanting to play here but things worked out for the best imo.
And once again, thank you sharks for taking Falloon and not Nieds.
Joe
<ninja edit to specify that the trade was in season not at the draft>
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I hate to say it but I kind of liked the old "trap" we used to use. I dont like this "center bunch" D that we're using. It doesn't allow us to transition to offense like the old system does. I've seen us trapped in our zone for minutes at a time, just bunching the center and allowing our opponents to own the boards. I think it causes too much standing around. I'd like to see the boys moving more. Especially back behind our own net. On offense, I'd prefer if they skated more than waited for that long 2 line pass. It takes too long for the other players to catch up and get into the zone. I liked what they did the other night against the Isles. I just dont see that enough. Even with that, it was still a 1 goal game. The other day, Potvin said that those 1 goal games get you after awhile. Not only mentally, but physically.
I'm confused.
the old trap was the system of not alowing the other team entering into your zone, not how you played once you are in your defensive zone so I don't see how the trap and 'center bunch' are an either or option. If I am wrong, please correct me
I do agree that one of the things missing most of the year was the quick transition from turnovers that created odd man rushes. I just dind't notice them as much this year.
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well it depends on the situation there, i would assume some of you guys knows each others after all these years so there i don't see any problems with using real names, i wouldnt call my buddy SuperMustach69 on the phone lol
sometimes i agree it could be creepy but it doesnt necessarily = internet stalking if you happen to know someones name
I mentioned in the other thread about using real names vs handles that it can be very confusing to other posters. Not everyone reads every thread, and i'm sure there are more then a few people with the same names that post here, hence the handles. Comes across cliquish imo.
Thats not even getting into using someones name just to show off that they know the persons name as an insult or an e-peen contest
Also, it's the way it's been done here. I've seen a few post that well thats the way HF does it, well this isn't hf. I don't like the way everything is done here and I've let it be known in those instances but all in all I like the place. If I didn't, I'd leave (like I have in the past and probably will in the future)
Then again, what do I know I used my real name so I wouldn't have to deal with crap like this.
Bob
(and yes I used this same bad joke in the other thread)
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on stapletons goal from that slick pass from Kane, Samalea should have stuck with Stapleton correct? Someone else said he had to cover for teddy not backchecking and I just don't see it that way. thoughts?
for the 20 seconds(and I think that may be generous) that the PP was set up, looked like a new wrinkle with Elias rotating back to the point while kovy snuck down low(I'm guessing they will rotate back in forth umbrella-like with Rolston going point to point). Was looking forward to see if that would freed up space for Kovy but atlanta did a hell of a job not letting them into the zone clean and not giving them any time to do anything. Not sure if that was designed for Atlanta or if it is the next step going forward. Just something that stuck out to me.
I'm assuming it's Oates working the pp, along with the different face-off formations I am very happy that Oates is in the coaching staff mix and hope he stays in the 'family' like robinson has.
Parise named captain!
in Hell
Posted
That's funny, pretty much sums up what I imagine for a few (unnamed) people here.
And just for the record, I don't use a laptop.