adam85491 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 There was A LOT of debate over whether or not Bryz was worth the projected 4-5 million we thought he would get a few weeks ago. 7.1 cap hit? How is this even a discussion. That is WAY too much and the flyers now have 9 million dollars committed in net over two decent (not elite) goaltenders. Good luck with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Hasn't been reported by TSN yet. Maybe it was premature that the deal is done and is 7 mils. Anyone have an updated source on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravityFat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 As we have been discussing, Flyers are way over the 10% limit if they make the signing official so they have to trade people away before they can announce a signing. I'm guessing it's a done deal but they haven't signed yet since they can't. If you see them trade any big player away, expect an announcement 10 mins after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 As we have been discussing, Flyers are way over the 10% limit if they make the signing official so they have to trade people away before they can announce a signing. I'm guessing it's a done deal but they haven't signed yet since they can't. If you see them trade any big player away, expect an announcement 10 mins after that. Ah, I see. Thanks. Sorry, I checked out of this discussion after page 5 or so, I think (when I went home from work yesterday). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) Hasn't been reported by TSN yet. Maybe it was premature that the deal is done and is 7 mils. Anyone have an updated source on this? ah, someone else has covered this already, so never mind re: Fleury - M.A. Fleury is not an elite goalie, he's an average to above-average goalie. Edited June 23, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharifijanov2099 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 ah, someone else has covered this already, so never mind re: Fleury - M.A. Fleury is not an elite goalie, he's an average to above-average goalie. But what about Marc Andre Bergeron, or Marc Andre Pouliot? ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 im pretty Lou went after Kovalchuk after being one if the the lowest scoring team in the league post-lockout... but that of course is not a big deal for manta... our attack and our PK was perfectly fine the way it was... lol Can I visit your land of make believe? Season before Kovy: GF: 244 PP Rank: 15th Season with Kovy: GF: 179 PP Rank: 28th Lou didn't go after Kovy, he was told to get Kovy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Can I visit your land of make believe? Season before Kovy: GF: 244 PP Rank: 15th Season with Kovy: GF: 179 PP Rank: 28th Lou didn't go after Kovy, he was told to get Kovy. I'd argue that those stats aren't even relavant, considering Parise was injured and the team, as a whole, faltered, but you'd probably argue that was all kovalchuk's fault to begin with. So...what's the point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaneykoIsGod Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 If you are counting Cam Ward as elite, I'd have to classify Fleury as elite as well - he's only 26 right now.... he was a first overall pick, won the Stanley Cup, and was voted team MVP this year. Plus, the Devs making the finals in 00, 01, 03 is skewing that greatly prior to the lockout. Last year to me was definitely the exception, not the new trend that you can just put any competent goalie in nets and compensate for their errors. Having a great goalie is definitely an advantage, but doesn't guarantee you the cup. OK, I'll drop the subjective "elite" bolding. But as for the repeating goalies pre- and post-lockout, that's exactly the point. From 1995 until 2003, the only way you won the Cup without an elite goalie was to be the Red "Yankees of Hockey" Wings, and in 2002 even they needed to recruit Hasek. This time I'll do something a little less subjective ... I'll only bold goalies who won Vezina trophies. Brodeur (Vernon), Roy (Vanbiesbrouck), Vernon (Hextall), Osgood (Kolzig), Belfour (Hasek), Brodeur (Belfour), Roy (Brodeur), Hasek (Irbe), Brodeur (Giguere), Khabibulin (Kiprusoff). At least one Vezina winner in every Final. If you can name a goaltender who was considered elite in that era, odds are his name is somewhere on that list. Jim Carey and Jose Theodore are the only Vezina winners from that period to not make it to a Final. Compare that to Ward (Roloson), Giguere (Emery), Osgood (Fleury), Fleury (Osgood), Niemi (Leighton), Thomas (Luongo). Of the four goalies to win the Vezina since the lockout, only Thomas appears on this list. No Kipper, no Marty, no Miller. And then there are the other elite goalies of the era ... Luongo appeared in one Final and Lundqvist never made it past the second round. You can't honestly believe the latter list is a greater testament to the goaltender's influence on his team's success than the former. The way the game is played has changed. More importantly, the position of goaltender has changed. Blame equipment, blame the butterfly, whatever. Goaltenders aren't exactly a dime a dozen, but compared to their value pre-lockout, sometimes it can seem like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Can I visit your land of make believe? Season before Kovy: GF: 244 PP Rank: 15th Season with Kovy: GF: 179 PP Rank: 28th Lou didn't go after Kovy, he was told to get Kovy. Nice sample size. In related picked-from-thin-air stats... The Devils scored 295 goals in 1989-90 and then only 272 in 1990-91. Clearly, the acquisition of Claude Lemieux ruined the offense and lead to the end of the organization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 The way the game is played has changed. More importantly, the position of goaltender has changed. Blame equipment, blame the butterfly, whatever. Goaltenders aren't exactly a dime a dozen, but compared to their value pre-lockout, sometimes it can seem like it. What you blame above is actually the main reason. When I think of current non-butterfly goalies off the top of my head, I have Brodeur, Osgood, Hedberg, Thomas. And even they use the butterfly from time to time. Mostly everyone else, especially Luongo, Giguere, Lundqvist, etc, rely on positioning, giant shoulder pads, and oversized leg pads. I guarantee goalies become important again if they make pad size relative to goalie size. (And not the voodoo measurements they use now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Nice sample size. In related picked-from-thin-air stats... The Devils scored 295 goals in 1989-90 and then only 272 in 1990-91. Clearly, the acquisition of Claude Lemieux ruined the offense and lead to the end of the organization. whoo-ho! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted June 23, 2011 Author Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) OK, I'll drop the subjective "elite" bolding. But as for the repeating goalies pre- and post-lockout, that's exactly the point. From 1995 until 2003, the only way you won the Cup without an elite goalie was to be the Red "Yankees of Hockey" Wings, and in 2002 even they needed to recruit Hasek. This time I'll do something a little less subjective ... I'll only bold goalies who won Vezina trophies. Brodeur (Vernon), Roy (Vanbiesbrouck), Vernon (Hextall), Osgood (Kolzig), Belfour (Hasek), Brodeur (Belfour), Roy (Brodeur), Hasek (Irbe), Brodeur (Giguere), Khabibulin (Kiprusoff). At least one Vezina winner in every Final. If you can name a goaltender who was considered elite in that era, odds are his name is somewhere on that list. Jim Carey and Jose Theodore are the only Vezina winners from that period to not make it to a Final. Compare that to Ward (Roloson), Giguere (Emery), Osgood (Fleury), Fleury (Osgood), Niemi (Leighton), Thomas (Luongo). Of the four goalies to win the Vezina since the lockout, only Thomas appears on this list. No Kipper, no Marty, no Miller. And then there are the other elite goalies of the era ... Luongo appeared in one Final and Lundqvist never made it past the second round. You can't honestly believe the latter list is a greater testament to the goaltender's influence on his team's success than the former. The way the game is played has changed. More importantly, the position of goaltender has changed. Blame equipment, blame the butterfly, whatever. Goaltenders aren't exactly a dime a dozen, but compared to their value pre-lockout, sometimes it can seem like it. While I agree with your general premise, part of why none of these guys have won awards is because the awarding is kind of a joke. It's basically a lock that if he stays healthy, Luongo will be handed a Vezina one year, and if Fleury and Ward are 15 year NHL goalies, I'd bet on at least one of them winning one (even though neither is that great). Brodeur's Vezina winning years only came after he stopped winning championships. Edited June 23, 2011 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulartist23 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Lou didn't go after Kovy, he was told to get Kovy. Where's your source that actually says this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Where's your source that actually says this? The voices in his head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatansDevils Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Damn. $7M for a goaltender is way too much. Bryzgalov is a good goaltender but has not won anything and has not proved himself in the playoffs. He had a very bad playoff run this year vs. Detroit. Flyers paid too much to sign Bryzgalov. Now they have to trade either Carter or Richards to get under the salary cap. Carter looks like the one to be traded. I don't think they would trade away Richards their captain. The Flyers may finally have a good goaltender but lets see how he does in the playoffs for them if they make the playoffs. I like Bryzgalov but unfortunately he is on the Flyers now which sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravityFat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 (edited) he should be a flyer by the end of the week, or more like, extend his contract with the flyers. lol Edited June 23, 2011 by ZeroGravityFat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmajeski06 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 GMillerTSN Gord Miller by IllegalCurve 9 years, $51m for Bryzgalov in Philly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Just announcing the Bryz contract on the radio, best quote: "Bryzagalov just signed in Philly, $51 million for.......9 years??? What is he 12?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 9 years is a long time. Sounds like cap cirumvention to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Andy Strickland says Flyers don't mind long term deals as they have no intention of retaining for the full length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmajeski06 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 9 years for a goalie...and looking at Phillys luck with goalies, it may not end pretty. Proteautype Adam Proteau For his next tricks, Paul Holmgren will slap a Mexican drug lord square in the face and take on Amy Winehouse in a drinking contest. #Balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroGravityFat Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 circumvention! get em bettman! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derlique Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 5.66 cap hit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmajeski06 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Illegal Curve Hockey FYI: Bryzgalov is the guy who once packed his bags and took them to an elimination game to get a quick start on the summer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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