Marty returns to his old mask

[DevsMan84]

In bold: you have no proof of this. I've already shown that you his numbers, outside of last year's first half, are on par with his career numbers. He was in net for 45 wins the year before last, and put up a GAA of 2.24 and a .916 save% that season. Yeah, he should've hung 'em up right there...what a fall from grace! You make sound it like he's embarrassing himself.

Yes, playing in Lemaire's safe defense-first style of hockey where shots on goal are minimized. When he started facing 30+ shots on average a game under MacLean, there was a noted decrease.

We used to be able to depend on Marty when the defense failed. Last year in the 1st half the defense failed often and we could not depend on Marty either.

[DaneykoIsGod]

And FWIW, I think Marty's negative impact on the team in the playoffs is overestimated. Tri posted in another thread that his combined save percentage in the past three series was .906. That's not gonna win a lot of series. But the team's shooting percentage was even worse: .067. That means opposing goalies posted a combined .933 save percentage. To put that in perspective, only five starting goalies in the past four playoff years have posted higher save percentages. Brodeur's only bested .933 twice in his many playoff years, and postseason legend Patrick Roy only topped it once.

Our lack of goal scoring is knocking us out of the playoffs, not Brodeur.

[Devil Dan 56]

FTFY

You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.

Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)

Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)

Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.

[overtime98]

IN reality the mask had nothing to do with the Devils not winning the cup but since there is so many superstitions in hockey as it is, its good to see he changed it back! Lets go Devils!

[Devilsfan118]

Never did understand why Devils fans rag on Marty, dating back to when I first joined the board and foolishly argued with LD in every GDT. (good times, good times)

[DevsMan84]

FIFY... quotes were needed.

Haha I was going to D3vils gam3s b3for3 you w3r3 3v3n born.

3very criticism of th3 t3am you and oth3rs tak3 as a p3rsonal attack and try to t3ll m3 I am not a D3vils fan.

Calm down th3r3.

[DevsMan84]

You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.

Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)

Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)

Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.

And how many people keep argreeing with Triumph when he posts that we still have a great defense in front of us and shows the stats?

So what do we have now? One week this board cries in unison that it sucks and the next week when Triumph has one of his stats post on the defense there is a harmony of people posting that our defense is one of the best. Please pick one and tell me.

[CarpathianForest]

The "waffle board" style blocker is great.

Would have liked the horns to be up higher and more visible on the pads.

Other then that, nice set for this season.

You should write him an angry-worded letter.

[NJDevs4978]

Also you forgot to post his playoff stats from the last few seasons. How come Marty apologists seem to do that?

All the playoff stats prove is that he shouldn't be playing 75+ regular season games, not that his game is declining. His best playoff series was the year he played 30 regular season games, what a surprise. dr33 has a good post about how no goalie since the lockout has played more than 60-65 games in the regular season, I think it was. Marty could get away with playing 75+ and playoffs pre-lockout before the rule changes and the defense started eroding, not to mention before he was 35+ years old.

[Quinn01]

You should write him an angry-worded letter.

In bold red letters.

[DevsMan84]

All the playoff stats prove is that he shouldn't be playing 75+ regular season games, not that his game is declining. His best playoff series was the year he played 30 regular season games, what a surprise. dr33 has a good post about how no goalie since the lockout has played more than 60-65 games in the regular season, I think it was. Marty could get away with playing 75+ and playoffs pre-lockout before the rule changes and the defense started eroding, not to mention before he was 35+ years old.

Finally a clear, lucid rebuttle to my posts where I can actually mostly agree with you and take back my original statement about Marty without resorting to personal attacks right away.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

And FWIW, I think Marty's negative impact on the team in the playoffs is overestimated. Tri posted in another thread that his combined save percentage in the past three series was .906. That's not gonna win a lot of series. But the team's shooting percentage was even worse: .067. That means opposing goalies posted a combined .933 save percentage. To put that in perspective, only five starting goalies in the past four playoff years have posted higher save percentages. Brodeur's only bested .933 twice in his many playoff years, and postseason legend Patrick Roy only topped it once.

Our lack of goal scoring is knocking us out of the playoffs, not Brodeur.

Grouping the three seasons into one isn't the best way to go, because of the disparity: .891, .929, .881. It's not like he was a steady .906. It's tough to win when the goalie puts up an .891 and .881 save%, but like I said before, there was plenty of blame to go around for those 5-game series losses...teams have had a way of making the Devils look very slow and overwhelmed in most of the playoff series since 2004, and that's not all on Brodeur.

DevsMan84, it's not that you criticizing Marty is being taken as a personal attack...it's more that people point out facts to you that refute incorrect or inaccurate statements that you make, but you keep plowing ahead anyway. You keep saying how Marty's been declining...I've pointed out how Marty's season before last was a typical Marty season, and right away you wrote that off as Lemaire coaching...but Marty has put up similar numbers throughout his career playing for a number of coaches, so why don't all of those other coaches get credit for all of those seasons?

But you've got your agenda w/Marty, and no matter how much we put out there to show you that you're overstating his decline, you've decided that he's either washed-up or close to it, and that his first-half conclusively shows Marty could never have played well on a bad team. Never mind that the coach was clearly in over his head and that the entire TEAM to a man stunk that first half, or that the team couldn't even score 2 GPG...Marty should have been able to overcome all of that.

[Pepperkorn]

Finally a clear, lucid rebuttle to my posts where I can actually mostly agree with you and take back my original statement about Marty without resorting to personal attacks right away.

But you're always free to choose not to resort to personal attacks. How you respond to any post is completely up to you.

[Scottie2Hottie]

If hes using his old mask, we already have the cup in our hands. Good going marty!

[DevsMan84]

Are you a douchebag in real life, or do you just play one on the internet?

And do you cry as much in real life as you do on here?

Isn't there a newbie around for you to be picking on now anyways Mr hall monitor?

But you're always free to choose not to resort to personal attacks. How you respond to any post is completely up to you.

I started going after you after you made under-handed personal attack a few times in threads I didn't even respond to.

Grouping the three seasons into one isn't the best way to go, because of the disparity: .891, .929, .881. It's not like he was a steady .906. It's tough to win when the goalie puts up an .891 and .881 save%, but like I said before, there was plenty of blame to go around for those 5-game series losses...teams have had a way of making the Devils look very slow and overwhelmed in most of the playoff series since 2004, and that's not all on Brodeur.

DevsMan84, it's not that you criticizing Marty is being taken as a personal attack...it's more that people point out facts to you that refute incorrect or inaccurate statements that you make, but you keep plowing ahead anyway. You keep saying how Marty's been declining...I've pointed out how Marty's season before last was a typical Marty season, and right away you wrote that off as Lemaire coaching...but Marty has put up similar numbers throughout his career playing for a number of coaches, so why don't all of those other coaches get credit for all of those seasons?

But you've got your agenda w/Marty, and no matter how much we put out there to show you that you're overstating his decline, you've decided that he's either washed-up or close to it, and that his first-half conclusively shows Marty could never have played well on a bad team. Never mind that the coach was clearly in over his head and that the entire TEAM to a man stunk that first half, or that the team couldn't even score 2 GPG...Marty should have been able to overcome all of that.

And manta does his thing with kovalchuk and people just roll his eyes at him and not personally attack him.

[DevsMan84]

Lol do you ever pay attention?

Yes I do and I have never seen people go after him with personal attacks.

I know Marty is your favorite player as made obvious by your name, but seriously, not everyone is going to love Brodeur and you shouldn't take someone not liking him as a personal attack on you.

One of my top 3 favorite Devils now is Greene and this board over the past year has had numerous posts as to how much he sucks, he should be traded, overpaid, etc... Do you see me going on there crying and personally attacking them?

[Devilsfan118]

Andy Greene ~= Brodeur with regards to this organization. On any level, really.

Me thinks that's where you rub people the wrong way. Calling out the franchise player isn't going to make you many e-friends.

Oh and I make fun of Manta's pessimism all the time, he just doesn't take the bait and argue with me or anyone else, for that matter. Kinda impressive, actually.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Devilsfan118

[DevsMan84]

Andy Greene ~= Brodeur with regards to this organization. On any level, really.

Me thinks that's where you rub people the wrong way. Calling out the franchise player isn't going to make you many e-friends.

Oh and I make fun of Manta's pessimism all the time, he just doesn't take the bait and argue with me or anyone else, for that matter. Kinda impressive, actually.

Manta does get sh!t but it is not as personal, and perhaps you are right it is because he is not attacking someone like Marty. What is wrong with me not liking the franchise player right now? Why defend him so much as if he was your brother or a blood relative?

Also, I never said I always hated Marty. I am happy and proud he was part of the Devils for all these years and not going to take that away from him. I just think his best days are way behind him and he should have called it quits a couple years back as his play has clearly slipped (and I will admit a lot of it is due to age and fatigue). If I was saying this between 95 and about 2008, then I would totally agree with you and say I was talking crazy.

So basically I do not go after Marty now for the sake of going after him, I just think his star is burning out and would rather see someone else get a few years in and take the reigns sooner rather than later.

I guess it is a sin to say a franchise player's best days are behind him to a group of fans on a somewhat obscure message board on the internets.

Edited August 5, 2011 by DevsMan84

[Devil Dan 56]

Manta does get sh!t but it is not as personal, and perhaps you are right it is because he is not attacking someone like Marty. What is wrong with me not liking the franchise player right now? Why defend him so much as if he was your brother or a blood relative?

Also, I never said I always hated Marty. I am happy and proud he was part of the Devils for all these years and not going to take that away from him. I just think his best days are way behind him and he should have called it quits a couple years back as his play has clearly slipped (and I will admit a lot of it is due to age and fatigue). If I was saying this between 95 and about 2008, then I would totally agree with you and say I was talking crazy.

So basically I do not go after Marty now for the sake of going after him, I just think his star is burning out and would rather see someone else get a few years in and take the reigns sooner rather than later.

I guess it is a sin to say a franchise player's best days are behind him to a group of fans on a somewhat obscure message board on the internets.

The argument people have against that is that his numbers haven't slipped much, if at all (other than a half season), and the team has gotten worse. Those 2 seasons I posted were 1999-2000 and 2009-2010. The numbers were decade apart nearly identical. Yeah, he gives up a few soft goals, but I think he always did. I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't, really.

And while I agree that his playoff numbers are less than stellar, he hasn't had much help on offense.

[CarpathianForest]

Manta calls me Crap instead of Carp.

But that's fine. At least I'm not called Manta-hug-and-kiss.

Edited August 5, 2011 by CarpathianForest

[DevsMan84]

The argument people have against that is that his numbers haven't slipped much, if at all (other than a half season), and the team has gotten worse. Those 2 seasons I posted were 1999-2000 and 2009-2010. The numbers were decade apart nearly identical. Yeah, he gives up a few soft goals, but I think he always did. I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone who doesn't, really.

And while I agree that his playoff numbers are less than stellar, he hasn't had much help on offense.

Fair enough.

How about I just leave this thread with saying I am happy to see the old design back.

Cool? And I was actually being sincere about it lol never liked the MB30 thing and the new blocker looks pretty cool too.

[DaneykoIsGod]

OK, since Brodeur seems to be the end all, be all of the Devils playoff success, let's look at some playoff numbers over his career.

Year: Team SH% (opposing goalies' combined SV%) - Brodeur's SV% - Round Eliminated

2009-10: 6.7% (.933) - .881 - 1st Round

2008-09: 6.2% (.938) - .929 - 1st Round

2007-08: 8.3% (.917) - .891 - 1st Round

2006-07: 9.5% (.905) - .916 - 2nd Round

2005-06: 11.8% (.882) - .923 - 2nd Round

2003-04: 5.8% (.942) - .902 - 1st Round

2002-03: 9.2% (.908) - .934 - Won Stanley Cup

2001-02: 5.6% (.944) - .938 - 1st Round

2000-01: 9.5% (.905) - .897 - Cup Final

1999-00: 8.4% (.916) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1998-99: 9.1% (.909) - .856 - 1st Round

1997-98: 6.9% (.927) - .927 - 1st Round

1996-97: 6.9% (.927) - .929 - 2nd Round

1994-95: 11% (.890) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1993-94: 8.1% (.919) - .928 - East Final

Using Brodeur's career average playoff save percentage of .919 (a full .001 better than Roy's ... just sayin' ) as the cutoff, I basically bolded what's good. That means any time Brodeur performed above his average, it's bolded, and any time the team's shooting percentage left the opposing goalies with a combined save percentage below Marty's career average, it's bolded.

What does it all mean? Not that much, really. If we shoot well AND Marty plays above his average, we'll win it all 75% of the time. And really, Marty's .916 in 2006-07 isn't far off from his average, so you could say that when everyone's playing well, we'll win it all 60% of the time. Sometimes the forwards shoot better than Marty stops 'em, and sometimes it's visa versa. Recent history has been mostly bad on both sides, but both sides also have at least one solid year in the last three postseasons.

What it all boils down to is this ... do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? He's done enough to earn some leeway from us, and to anyone who looks at ALL the numbers it's obvious that blame is shared rather than belonging solely to him. So, again, do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? If yes, then you should spend equal time talking down our offense, because they're just as much to blame for any of this team's playoff shortcomings.

[devlman]

You fixed nothing. Your 'elite team' thing is cool and all, but inaccurate. Do you really call the teams he's had in front of him since Stevens retired 'elite'?? Really?

Guess the season.... He played 72 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .910 save %, went 43-20-8, and had 6 shutouts.

Guess the season.... He played 77 games, had a 2.24 GAA, .916 save %, went 45-25-6, and had 9 shutouts.

Elite defense (with games played)... Scott Niedermayer (71), Brian Rafalski (75), Scott Stevens (78), Lyle Odelein (57), Sheldon Souray (52), Ken Daneyko (78), Vladimir Malakhov (17), Brad Bombardir (32), Colin White (21), Ken Sutton (6), Deron Quint (4), Willie Mitchell (2)

Elite defense (with games played)... Andy Greene (78), Mike Mottau (79), Bryce Salvador (79), Colin White (81), Paul Martin (22), Mark Fraser (61), Johnny Oduya (40), Cory Murphy (12), Anssi Salmela (9), Martin Skoula (19), Tyler Eckford (3), Rob Davison (1), Matt Corrente (12)

Looks like consistency to me, unless you feel Colin White was the elite catalyst. And I know you and I feel the same about Colin White, so that can't be it.

Good post

[Pepperkorn]

I've attacked manta lots. and he's never attacked me. I feel awful about it too because I like him and I have an AWEFUL communication style. I communicate via conflict resolution -- so I start conflict in order to learn during the resolution. at least I get that about myself.

[devlman]

OK, since Brodeur seems to be the end all, be all of the Devils playoff success, let's look at some playoff numbers over his career.

Year: Team SH% (opposing goalies' combined SV%) - Brodeur's SV% - Round Eliminated

2009-10: 6.7% (.933) - .881 - 1st Round

2008-09: 6.2% (.938) - .929 - 1st Round

2007-08: 8.3% (.917) - .891 - 1st Round

2006-07: 9.5% (.905) - .916 - 2nd Round

2005-06: 11.8% (.882) - .923 - 2nd Round

2003-04: 5.8% (.942) - .902 - 1st Round

2002-03: 9.2% (.908) - .934 - Won Stanley Cup

2001-02: 5.6% (.944) - .938 - 1st Round

2000-01: 9.5% (.905) - .897 - Cup Final

1999-00: 8.4% (.916) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1998-99: 9.1% (.909) - .856 - 1st Round

1997-98: 6.9% (.927) - .927 - 1st Round

1996-97: 6.9% (.927) - .929 - 2nd Round

1994-95: 11% (.890) - .927 - Won Stanley Cup

1993-94: 8.1% (.919) - .928 - East Final

Using Brodeur's career average playoff save percentage of .919 (a full .001 better than Roy's ... just sayin' ) as the cutoff, I basically bolded what's good. That means any time Brodeur performed above his average, it's bolded, and any time the team's shooting percentage left the opposing goalies with a combined save percentage below Marty's career average, it's bolded.

What does it all mean? Not that much, really. If we shoot well AND Marty plays above his average, we'll win it all 75% of the time. And really, Marty's .916 in 2006-07 isn't far off from his average, so you could say that when everyone's playing well, we'll win it all 60% of the time. Sometimes the forwards shoot better than Marty stops 'em, and sometimes it's visa versa. Recent history has been mostly bad on both sides, but both sides also have at least one solid year in the last three postseasons.

What it all boils down to is this ... do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? He's done enough to earn some leeway from us, and to anyone who looks at ALL the numbers it's obvious that blame is shared rather than belonging solely to him. So, again, do you really wanna spend your time finding reasons to talk down our goalie? If yes, then you should spend equal time talking down our offense, because they're just as much to blame for any of this team's playoff shortcomings.

Just to play devils advocate here...3 of Marty's last 4 seasons have been subpar, based on those numbers. From that, you can conclude that he is on the decline. But, then again, the whole team hasnt been stellar either.