Is Marty done?

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Dude, the guy is quasi 40 years old man. 40 years old! You got guys the likes of Skinner, Stamkos, Nugent-Hopkins (and a guy on the team named Adam Larsson too) that were still in training diapers when Marty won his first cup.

Enough is enough. I could care less that they draw comparisons to Dwayne Roloson's 42 years of age. Marty is old and weathered. He may be able to come in a steal a game or two here and there, but he isn't a guy that can play 35-40 games a year anymore and have less than a 2.30 GAA. He's not. I don't give a hoot what anyone says.

Granted, I would love for him to prove me wrong, but let's face it, he's not a machine. He's a human being that ages like everyone else.

Believe it or not, as much as I worship Marty and what he's done for us, I believe he is what's holding this franchise back from moving forward. Kind of like Alessandro Del Piero with Juventus (Serie A soccer team in Italy). They are both team icons, with ownership, management, and fans alike clinging and not wanting to let go. But enough is enough.

Alessandro Del Piero was announced today to be in his LAST SEASON with Juventus at the age of 37. Brodeur should join him.

I hope he goes out with his head held high...I have my fingers crossed.

In bold: What are you talking about? You make it sound like he's been a shell of what he was and that we've been watching a diminished Brodeur for an extended period of time.

The year before last, he went 45-25-6 with a 2.24 GAA, 9 SO and a .916 save%, so it's not like he's several seasons removed from his last typical Marty season. He was strong in the second half last season as well.

I'll give you that, at his age, there's no guarantees...anything can happen. I saw Roberto Alomar put on a Met uniform and age seemingly overnight...in the course of one offseason he went from being a star player to complete wash-up. The same thing happened to Mickey Mantle and several other player in all sports, where there's no steady decline, just an abrupt, almost instantaneous erosion of skills.

No one can say that that has happened to Marty...he's actually looked pretty good in his limited time this season. At any rate, as long as he can stay healthy and is playing close to the level we enjoyed watching for so many seasons, I think he deserves a shot to play in a significant number of games...maybe not 70+, but I don't see why, IF he feels up to it and IF he's playing well enough (questions that can't be answered October 19), he can't start 50-55 games. If he struggles mightily and looks bad doing it, I think he'll recognize it and walk away...though he's been painted as a selfish detriment by a number of fans over the past few seasons, I think he's smart enough to realize that not playing well and not being able to do anything about it won't do him or anyone else any good. What makes all of this easier to deal with is that the Devils have a backup who can at least give them capable goaltending in Hedberg.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[Pepperkorn]

We all know the deal -- Basically - he doesn't enjoying being a f***-up (who does?) -- and there is no reason for him to power through stuff just to eat crow.

If there is not one humiliating thing about playing another year AND this season has energized him by it's end - then he'll be back. If it's just more of the same then he won't. It sucks to feel like the weak link and Marty isn't given an nanometer by fans or the industry.

We all know this. But it's all part of the grieving process to have threads like this - there's no debate to be had though. Any sort of control fans had was thrown to the wind with people blaming him for not bailing the team out last season -- so now it's just totally a personal decision and he'll do nothing for our collective sake.

[NJDevs4978]

Believe it or not, as much as I worship Marty and what he's done for us, I believe he is what's holding this franchise back from moving forward. Kind of like Alessandro Del Piero with Juventus (Serie A soccer team in Italy). They are both team icons, with ownership, management, and fans alike clinging and not wanting to let go. But enough is enough.

How has he 'hurt' the team and prevented them from going forward? Can't be his $5.2 million cap hit, which is a mere 200,000 more than Brian Rolston's was, if any contract prevented the team from 'moving forward' it was that one. Sure hasn't been his play since he was still at a reasonably high level in '09-10, better than any goalie they could have realistically plugged in. Last year his injuries didn't hurt the team cause they had Hedberg playing at a high level and he also played at a high level in the second half when he was in there.

If he keeps getting hurt this year half of you'll get your wish and he will be gone, but he's going nowhere before then so it's useless to talk about this in October.

Edited October 19, 2011 by NJDevs4978

[njdevil26]

Dude, the guy is quasi 40 years old man. 40 years old! You got guys the likes of Skinner, Stamkos, Nugent-Hopkins (and a guy on the team named Adam Larsson too) that were still in training diapers when Marty won his first cup.

Enough is enough. I could care less that they draw comparisons to Dwayne Roloson's 42 years of age. Marty is old and weathered. He may be able to come in a steal a game or two here and there, but he isn't a guy that can play 35-40 games a year anymore and have less than a 2.30 GAA. He's not. I don't give a hoot what anyone says.

Granted, I would love for him to prove me wrong, but let's face it, he's not a machine. He's a human being that ages like everyone else.

Believe it or not, as much as I worship Marty and what he's done for us, I believe he is what's holding this franchise back from moving forward. Kind of like Alessandro Del Piero with Juventus (Serie A soccer team in Italy). They are both team icons, with ownership, management, and fans alike clinging and not wanting to let go. But enough is enough.

Alessandro Del Piero was announced today to be in his LAST SEASON with Juventus at the age of 37. Brodeur should join him.

I hope he goes out with his head held high...I have my fingers crossed.

There was just a strange announcement that Del Piero is definitely playing his last year with Juventus. They way it was worded, they are hiding whether the team is pushing him out and he has to sign elsewhere.... or if this is his personal wish to retire after this season. No idea...

I think it's different though... Del Piero is on the bench most of the time. Matri and Vucinic along with Pepe, Vidal, and others are the starting strikers. Del Piero comes on in the 70th or 80th minute to snag a goal or so.

With Marty, if he's healthy, there's the notion that he HAS to the starter.. .and that could hold the team up.

Before this season I thought his contract would run out and he would sign one year deals with the Devils til he wanted to call it quits. Then he got hurt again and now I don't know if he'll want to continue.

[Dead]

I think if Marty is hurt severely enough, or gets hurt again he may hang them up. I am sure he wants to be able to enjoy retirement healthy. Doesnt really matter if Marty retires this season or not, he has done so much for the Devils he will always be a legend for the team and for hockey in general.

I do think that it is a real possibility that he retires at the end of the season, and we as a team should be looking for a number 1 goal tender asap.

[Devilsfan118]

re: holding the team back

I think Marty is well beyond the years where it'd just be assumed he'd start. If he doesn't play well, Moose WILL become the starter. Marty won't be handed games.

But anyway, it doesn't look like he's playing Friday. With a week+ off since the injury, it's looking like this deep bruise is probably something a little more serious. So...damnit.

[mouse]

Can we acknowledge that he was playing well before the injury? He faced a huge number of shots both times as the team struggled. They happened to figure things out in the Kings game after the injury, and that wouldn't have mattered if Marty hadn't stood on his head. He hurt himself making the best save of the game. If he can't stay healthy, that's one thing, and if we have a shot to lock up Rinne at a good price, I do it, even if Marty would rather play, but at this point, he is in no way a liability or washed up. Just not the BEST GOALIE in the game anymore. We need to stop acting like the spoiled brats he made us.

[Jerrydevil]

I think it's an interesting question. I suspect he may essentially be done in that we may not be able to count on him as our No. 1 goalie. We'll see.

[ghdi]

No, he's not. Awesome topic though. TotY?

Its not meant to be a Chicken Little thread. He doesn't necessarily have to have his skills completely diminished to stop.

[Derlique]

No use rushing him back. Let Hedberg play until he has a bad game and by that time, Marty should be fine

[Onddeck]

It is clear that Marty does not have the skills he once has and has certainly proved he's recently had problems with injuries. Although Marty cant exactly be the lights out goalie he once was, the devils can (and are) thinking of him as I guy to split games. Like Manta says, we'll let Hedberg do his thing, because its kinda working

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

It is clear that Marty does not have the skills he once has and has certainly proved he's recently had problems with injuries. Although Marty cant exactly be the lights out goalie he once was, the devils can (and are) thinking of him as I guy to split games. Like Manta says, we'll let Hedberg do his thing, because its kinda working

Clear based on what? One rough half-season last year (when the whole team stunk)? He played quite well in the second half. There's no way of telling where he is yet this season.

[Onddeck]

Clear based on what? One rough half-season last year (when the whole team stunk)? He played quite well in the second half. There's no way of telling where he is yet this season.

o stop. you think marty is still in his prime, huh?? im saying it is clear that a guy pushing 40 is not gonna be as quick and demanding as he once was

[sundstrom]

out 7-10 days w/ shoulder.

what's crazy is that it really doesn't concern me at all. hedberg has been plenty solid to prove that he's capable.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

out 7-10 days w/ shoulder.

what's crazy is that it really doesn't concern me at all. hedberg has been plenty solid to prove that he's capable.

I know this may sound silly but I really hope Kindkaid gets a game in, better to get that off his shoulders early into his pro career. Pheonix or Dallas are equally decent starts for him.

Edited October 19, 2011 by Jas0nMacIsaac

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

o stop. you think marty is still in his prime, huh?? im saying it is clear that a guy pushing 40 is not gonna be as quick and demanding as he once was

I didn't say that I thought he was in his prime, but I don't see this clear dropping off in skill that you claim to see. You have one bad half-season to base that observation on, followed by a strong second half. I don't find that sample at all conclusive.

[Devilsfan118]

I didn't say that I thought he was in his prime, but I don't see this clear dropping off in skill that you claim to see. You have one bad half-season to base that observation on, followed by a strong second half. I don't find that sample at all conclusive.

The Brodeur hate om this board has never been rational; I don't expect logic to start to apply now either

[justdo3043]

i think he played good in his two starts this season....even if you love him you have to admit he keeps getting hurt

[Onddeck]

The Brodeur hate om this board has never been rational; I don't expect logic to start to apply now either

if you are assuming at all that I am hating on this board then you are out of your mind. Im saying I dont think the devils are gonna rely 100% on him.. and, frankly, i dont think they should. he still is a good goaltender.. but he wont be putting up GREAT numbers... cmon

[Biggie B]

if you are assuming at all that I am hating on this board then you are out of your mind. Im saying I dont think the devils are gonna rely 100% on him.. and, frankly, i dont think they should. he still is a good goaltender.. but he wont be putting up GREAT numbers... consistently

Edited for truth...

[Guest BelieveinBrodeur]

He played well in his games this season but he does get hurt alot. Im wondering if he had a little stiffness or what so ever before the beginning of the season and Deboer still played him and now it's worse so he needs to sit out a couple games.

[Beezer34]

Believe it or not, as much as I worship Marty and what he's done for us, I believe he is what's holding this franchise back from moving forward. Kind of like Alessandro Del Piero with Juventus (Serie A soccer team in Italy). They are both team icons, with ownership, management, and fans alike clinging and not wanting to let go. But enough is enough.

Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..

..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?

I think Marty is well beyond the years where it'd just be assumed he'd start. If he doesn't play well, Moose WILL become the starter. Marty won't be handed games.

Without a doubt.

They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Beezer34

[Joe B]

Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..

..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?

Without a doubt.

They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.

didn't he win the vezina 4 years ago? Wasn't he a finalist 2010? In the Carolina series didn't he steal a game to get them to to that game 7. Moose won't remain the starter unless Marty continues to get hurt. at the worst they will split the time 50 - 50( and my guess is without any more injuries, 60-40 maybe slightly more Marty the rest of the year). It's not like Moose is in his prime either. Moose gives the option of letting marty take his time to recover. Like last year when Moose had the winning streak during Marty's injury, once he lost, it was Marty's job again. Marty recognized he was playing like crap for a stretch last year and worked on his game(as he sat out a few games even while healthy). He's not in his prime, everyone knows that, but to say he's lost his skills after the second half last year is not giving him the respect that he deserves. He wasn't a co starter when he was healthy. The only thing I'm looking forward to when he retires is that maybe they will get rid of that stupid trapezoid, with all the bitching of need for a pmd(really like the term offensive defencman because I feel it is a better description but I know I'm in the minority on that) he still handles the puck and helps the D out.

As for the playoffs, 2010, in the 4 games they lost to the flyers, they scored 4 goals scored total. tough to win like that.

I wouldn't be surprised if this is his last year. Main;y becasue of the recovery time from injuries, not from his skill in net.

missed the second bolded part. There is no way you could have gone with a career AHLer in net over Marty(who set the all time wins record a month or so earlier) in that series, what kind of message would that be sending to the team. The fans would have revolted. I see that posted a few times and it just doesn't make sense. Marty would have asked for a trade in the off season. I'm sure a few season ticket holders wouldn't renew as well. To even compare the 2 is an insult to Marty. do I want a goalie that won 3 cups or the goalie that has 7 mins, not games, mins of playoff experience.

And why the hell am I o her at 2 in the morning when I have a conference call at 7:45 am turn the damn monitor off

Joe

Edited October 21, 2011 by Joe B

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Marty hasn't been Marty for the past 4 years now. Since the 2007-08 season Marty's GAA in the playoffs is near a 3, with an .898 SV%, and he's won 5 games. He missed 50 games with a shoulder injury in 2008-09.. 30 games last season.. and is now rehabbing again for 2 weeks. (maybe longer) He's playing out the last year of his contract, and turns 40 in May..

..case closed.

People need to remember we're all Devil fans on this board, and it's completely normal to question the direction of the organization post Brodeur. Rarely will someone knock Marty just for the sake of knocking Marty. But seriously.. isn't it obvious to everyone that he's not nearly the same goalie he was? Did everyone really believe Brodeur would defy father time, and play like he's 27 when he's 40?

Without a doubt.

They already went to that co-starting goalie system last season. (which many compared to "hell freezing over") How the team plays these next 2 weeks will be pivotal to Brodeurs status. If the team rallies around Hedberg, Moose will remain the starter. Management will not make the same mistake they made 3 years ago. In the end, chemistry is priority #1.

Management made a mistake with that one? Really?

Though Clemmensen played as well as anyone could have asked under the circumstances, he was showing signs of coming back to Earth before Marty returned...in his last nine GP before Marty came back, he gave up three or more goals in six of those games, and failed to save 90% of the shots in five out of the nine games. From 1/4 to 2/21, his save% was only .907...not God-awful, but his season save% was .917, so he was clearly not playing as well as he had earlier that season. In his last three starts, he had given up 13 goals, with an .867 save%...his last two starts were both 4-0 losses. I appreciated what Clemmensen did as much as anyone that season, but it did appear that whatever magic he had was wearing off.

The team did seem to be in need of a spark at that point, and Marty was terrific when he first came back...the team won 9 out of his first 10 starts, and he allowed only 19 goals during that stretch (6 of which came in his lone loss over those 10 games). Would the Devils have done the same with Clemmensen at net, with the way Clemmensen was playing at that point? Would Clemmensen been able to match Marty's production? Probably not.

In fairness, the Devils did not finish the season strongly, and Marty did not play as well as he did when he first came back, but neither did the team, and I don't think the poor play was a result of Marty disrupting chemistry. Even if they had gone back to Clemmensen after Marty went through an 0-5-1 streak (where the team scored just 7 goals), based on how Clemmensen was playing before Marty came back, would he have made much of a difference?

As for him "not being nearly the same goalie"...based on what? You didn't see his second half? I'll give you that he may not be as DURABLE as he once was (this was his single greatest asset), but I haven't seen a great drop-off in ability when he CAN play. He's been up-and-down in recent playoffs, but look throughout his career and you'll see he's always been up and down in the playoffs from season-to-season...the Devils did get to within one win of a Cup in 2001, but Marty was not really terribly good in those playoffs. And the teams in front of him have had a way of looking like the slower, more easily dominated team in most of the playoff series they've been in since 2004. So though he hasn't been consistently great since 2004 in the playoffs, neither have the teams in front of him.

Edited October 21, 2011 by Colorado Rockies 1976

[NJDevs4978]

Agreed CR...but when it comes to Marty this board has some certifiable lunatics. I wish some people gave him half the appreciation they give Kovy

As far as this nonsense about Marty going downhill, his save percentage has actually been BETTER since the lockout from '05-10 than it was in his prime years. His career save percentage is .913, his season totals from '07-08 when he was supposedly going downhill were .920, .916 and .916 till last year. Last year was .903 but just about everyone on the team had career worst numbers because of the dreadful first half.

Unless you think Kovy's going to struggle to get 30 goals and finish with above a -30 every year, or a healthy Zajac's only getting 44 points the rest of his career (after being in the 60s the previous couple years), you can't take the first half of last year as proof of Marty's decline. Not after he had such a strong second half.