Colin226 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) This looks like the same crap The Post wrote, only now Yahoo is talking about it.. Again, I see no reason to panic but then again Devils fans looooove to panic.. Remember last season when people here deemed us "out of the playoffs" in late October? Yeah, enough said.. I won't rehash my theory on this because when people want to panic it just goes over their head.. And Andrew, I was at Wells Fargo Center last night and seeing all that orange gave me such a hardon it was insane We all know you want the Devils to move so you can go to Outlaws and Titans games for $10 Edited November 4, 2011 by Colin226 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The team knows this as well. The team is looking to optimize total revenue, not attendance or concession/merchandise revenue. I believe the Devils attendance isn't as drastically affected by ticket prices as others think. When I have 3 different reps call me 5 out of 7 days a week for the past 5 weeks, things are getting desperate. I keep telling each one their plans arent cheap enough and they just have nothing to say to that. I keep asking them why pay about $20-32 a ticket on your plan in the upper level when I can get the same seat on stubhub for $9? They have no answer. And prices do determine a lot for me and at this point I can only commit to games depending on my financial outlook for the month ahead. This looks like the same crap The Post wrote, only now Yahoo is talking about it.. Again, I see no reason to panic but then again Devils fans looooove to panic.. Remember last season when people here deemed us "out of the playoffs" in late October? Yeah, enough said.. I won't rehash my theory on this because when people want to panic it just goes over their head.. And Andrew, I was at Wells Fargo Center last night and seeing all that orange gave me such a hardon it was insane lol but did we manke the playoffs? The hole created in October was too deep for us to climb out of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I don't know how most of you can say "it's ok, I'm not going to get crazy over this" simply because the Devils will likely stay put, but be saddled with uncertain ownership, financial troubles, and a minimal budget. Are you really that OK with being a bottom-10 team for the next 10+ years? Are you really that OK with years of frustration and playing 82 games with no real hope of reaching the playoffs or winning anything? I am a true fan and I'll keep watching, but I definitely will NOT be "OK" with it. It sucks in every respect, and I don't think anyone should really be sugarcoating it or thinking it's not that bad. There are a few teams who were able to make the playoffs with financial limitations over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 When I have 3 different reps call me 5 out of 7 days a week for the past 5 weeks, things are getting desperate. I keep telling each one their plans arent cheap enough and they just have nothing to say to that. I keep asking them why pay about $20-32 a ticket on your plan in the upper level when I can get the same seat on stubhub for $9? They have no answer. And prices do determine a lot for me and at this point I can only commit to games depending on my financial outlook for the month ahead. I'm not saying what prices mean to you, the Devils need to look at the larger group. I don't think taking a 30 dollar ticket and making it 27 generates much, if any, attendance increase but it will generate a revenue shortfall. I think the Devils would have to cut prices deeply to affect attendance in any large way, and at that point prices are cut too much for the revenue to made up through other avenues. That's all based on anecdotal evidence watching the crowds over the years but the Devils, I would feel confident, spend a lot of time figuring out what ticket price maximizes revenue. If it was as easy as cut prices and revenues go up then they would have followed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justdo3043 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 what does this mean for parise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 At this point... I would be fine with the Devils dropping a postcard into every mailbox in NJ and saying "Hey! Remember us?! We're broke! So if you'd like Parise to come back and to have a hockey team to cheer for in the future, get your ass to the arena!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas0nMacIsaac Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 the devils aren't moving, it's just a question of when vanderbeek can finally sell and get out. he brought the newark arena which is great, but he also bought the team with money he didn't have, and hasn't gotten. Isn't that what all great business men do. Buy leveraged on debt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Moving game times back to 7:30 is also vital I think. Working ANYWHERE in the NJ/NYC area and you know it's VERY hard to get out of work and get into downtown Newark by 7pm. Won't make a difference. Bowl was still near empty on Wednesday till the 2nd period. 7:30 on Fridays, yeah, but not Mon-Thu when folks have work the next morning and rely on the trains to get in and out. Edited November 4, 2011 by Marv4Life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I don't know how most of you can say "it's ok, I'm not going to get crazy over this" simply because the Devils will likely stay put, but be saddled with uncertain ownership, financial troubles, and a minimal budget. Are you really that OK with being a bottom-10 team for the next 10+ years? Are you really that OK with years of frustration and playing 82 games with no real hope of reaching the playoffs or winning anything? I am a true fan and I'll keep watching, but I definitely will NOT be "OK" with it. It sucks in every respect, and I don't think anyone should really be sugarcoating it or thinking it's not that bad. We don't really have any idea what will happen. Look at Buffalo - they were in the toilet, now they've got an owner who's going to lose tons of money in an effort to win. Pittsburgh was bankrupt 10 years ago and now they have one of the strongest franchises in the NHL. Yeah, both of their situations are different from New Jersey. Teams that are continually on the bottom of the NHL are not there because of finances, they're there because they are mismanaged. The salary floor prevents teams from going the old Pittsburgh route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 There are a few teams who were able to make the playoffs with financial limitations over the years. It happens here and there, but by and large its a losing proposition in the long run. Also, I don't recall any team that was in serious financial trouble and working with a minimal budget winning the Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njdevil26 Posted November 4, 2011 Author Share Posted November 4, 2011 Won't make a difference. Bowl was still near empty on Wednesday till the 2nd period. 7:30 on Fridays, yeah, but not Mon-Thu when folks have work the next morning and rely on the trains to get in and out. For me, Jamie gets out of work at 6:30-6:45 on Tues/Thurs/Fri so we can't go to games on that day. If the start time was 7:30, we now could go to all of those games. I know I'm not the only person in this scenario... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 We don't really have any idea what will happen. Look at Buffalo - they were in the toilet, now they've got an owner who's going to lose tons of money in an effort to win. Pittsburgh was bankrupt 10 years ago and now they have one of the strongest franchises in the NHL. Yeah, both of their situations are different from New Jersey. Teams that are continually on the bottom of the NHL are not there because of finances, they're there because they are mismanaged. The salary floor prevents teams from going the old Pittsburgh route. I agree with you 100%. But at the same time Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in different situations because they are in markets where they can garner tons of support and have the opportunity to sell out most nights if the team is made up correctly. The Devils are in a sh!t market and no matter how good this team is, we'll never be a club that fills up its building every night (as we've seen in the past). Basically what I'm saying is that ownership in Pittsburgh has every reason to spend in order to make the team better, since they can be assured of higher revenue if the team succeeds. The Devils don't necessarily have that, and I'm not sure if they'll ever have it. In that case, why would an owner pick up this team and really spend his money without regard to revenue in the short term? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 For me, Jamie gets out of work at 6:30-6:45 on Tues/Thurs/Fri so we can't go to games on that day. If the start time was 7:30, we now could go to all of those games. I know I'm not the only person in this scenario... You are def not alone. I used to work 8-5 but now I work 8:30-5:30 after I got promoted and now it is even tougher to make games. Now to make the 5:12 train out of Somerville to get to the game requires me to put a request in to work through lunch and start 30 minutes early to get out by 4PM, go home and change (live about 18 min away) and then drive to the station (15 min away) and then get to Penn by 6-6:15PM and then quickly eat and get to the arena at like 6:45-6:55. It sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 At this point... I would be fine with the Devils dropping a postcard into every mailbox in NJ and saying "Hey! Remember us?! We're broke! So if you'd like Parise to come back and to have a hockey team to cheer for in the future, get your ass to the arena!" And 99.9% of the people seeing that postcard would say "Parise who?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I agree with you 100%. But at the same time Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in different situations because they are in markets where they can garner tons of support and have the opportunity to sell out most nights if the team is made up correctly. The Devils are in a sh!t market and no matter how good this team is, we'll never be a club that fills up its building every night (as we've seen in the past). Basically what I'm saying is that ownership in Pittsburgh has every reason to spend in order to make the team better, since they can be assured of higher revenue if the team succeeds. The Devils don't necessarily have that, and I'm not sure if they'll ever have it. In that case, why would an owner pick up this team and really spend his money without regard to revenue in the short term? I don't know what the new CBA will bring, but the NHL's money losing owners have to look at the fact that basically 10 teams drive the NHL's revenue (and could afford a salary cap 50% larger than the current one) and the rest of the teams collectively break even. So what you have is a salary cap that continually rises even though revenues are largely stagnant in a majority of markets. Again, I reiterate - you can't be a bottom 10 team for many years without being completely mismanaged. The salary floor prevents this - you've got to be paying someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck the Duck Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The simple fact is, it would take a massive financial commitment for any new owner of the Devils to get them out of their 30 year "lease" with the Newark Housing Authority, the entity that owns the Rock. In reality, that new owner would have to leverage himself so much to get the deal done and move the team, that he would put himself in the same situation as Vanderbeek. The more likely scenario is the one that has us getting a new owner who puts no financial backing into the team and we run on shoe-string budgets for the foreseeable future. I just hope that, if things are as bad as they say they are, and we can't resign Parise by the trade deadline, they get the best package of prospects possible and make a deal rather than let him go for nothing on July 1. I'd hate to see it happen, but letting him walk for nothing would be devastating for this team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bringbackbrylin Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 The Devils will start having collection bins at the entrances located by the Verizon and PNC towers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marv4Life Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I agree with you 100%. But at the same time Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in different situations because they are in markets where they can garner tons of support and have the opportunity to sell out most nights if the team is made up correctly. The Devils are in a sh!t market and no matter how good this team is, we'll never be a club that fills up its building every night (as we've seen in the past). Pittsburgh was averaging under 12,000 a night before Crosby came along. http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2004 And Buffalo wasn't exactly selling out the place nightly either. So you're saying if the Devs get their act together, make deep playoff runs, and somehow make the Finals(or even win the whole thing!) a couple of years in a row in a more accessible arena they'd still have poor attendance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilsfan118 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Honestly, if i'm Parise im outa here if these reports keep popping up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 I don't know what the new CBA will bring, but the NHL's money losing owners have to look at the fact that basically 10 teams drive the NHL's revenue (and could afford a salary cap 50% larger than the current one) and the rest of the teams collectively break even. So what you have is a salary cap that continually rises even though revenues are largely stagnant in a majority of markets. Again, I reiterate - you can't be a bottom 10 team for many years without being completely mismanaged. The salary floor prevents this - you've got to be paying someone. How many teams are mismanaged? Quite a bit. How many have owners that really don't care? Quite a bit. The Devils have been blessed with both ownership and management that cares and does anything to succeed. We are likely losing JVB and Lou very soon, and there is a very likely chance that their replacements will not be very good or very involved. I'm not saying we will be a bottom 10 team forever, but in all likelihood, we would be one for quite a while, which again is why I don't understand why most people here are "OK" with it as long as the team stays in NJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) Won't make a difference. Bowl was still near empty on Wednesday till the 2nd period. 7:30 on Fridays, yeah, but not Mon-Thu when folks have work the next morning and rely on the trains to get in and out. I think the point of comparing 7 to 7:30 is the theory that people might not decide to go to a 7 game beforehand since they know they'll be late arriving and miss part of the game anyway. Personally I like the 7 PM time, but I'm in the minority and recognize 7:30 would be more convenient for the majority of people. That said I'm not sure how much of a difference it actually would make in the attendance. The Toronto game was just as empty as the LA weekday game (7 PM start) was, and Toronto's more of a rival. Plus you have to factor in that people who want to take kids - granted, there aren't many at weekday games to begin with - probably like the earlier start time too. If we did start games at 7:30 you'd probably have just as many people complaining they don't get home till after 11 on a weeknight as you do saying it's too early now. Edited November 4, 2011 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amberite Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Pittsburgh was averaging under 12,000 a night before Crosby came along. http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2004 And Buffalo wasn't exactly selling out the place nightly either. So you're saying if the Devs get their act together, make deep playoff runs, and somehow make the Finals(or even win the whole thing!) a couple of years in a row in a more accessible arena they'd still have poor attendance? Yes, if you read what I wrote again, I mention that Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in markets where they can sell out every night if they have success. The Devils have had plenty of success in the past and still have had relatively poor attendance. We're simply in a market that is mostly divided among Philly / NYR / NYI. The Devils are a 3rd or 4th option for most people. We haven't had great success in Newark yet, but I don't anticipate it would create THAT much of a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfsharkalligatorhalfman Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Honestly, if i'm Parise im outa here if these reports keep popping up. Well it depends on what Vanderbeek is able/willing to offer, but there's no way I'd sign before hitting UFA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 How many teams are mismanaged? Quite a bit. How many have owners that really don't care? Quite a bit. The Devils have been blessed with both ownership and management that cares and does anything to succeed. We are likely losing JVB and Lou very soon, and there is a very likely chance that their replacements will not be very good or very involved. I'm not saying we will be a bottom 10 team forever, but in all likelihood, we would be one for quite a while, which again is why I don't understand why most people here are "OK" with it as long as the team stays in NJ. Who said they were 'okay' with it? I was just pointing out THAT was the 'nuclear' scenario, not moving. Not with the team having a long-term lease and money-making TV deal. Would I rather the team be bad than actually move, absolutely. But that's like asking someone would they rather have a leg amputated or be dead. Neither scenario's particularly appealing but I'd pick the first one every time because I'd at least still be alive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Yes, if you read what I wrote again, I mention that Pittsburgh and Buffalo are in markets where they can sell out every night if they have success. The Devils have had plenty of success in the past and still have had relatively poor attendance. We're simply in a market that is mostly divided among Philly / NYR / NYI. The Devils are a 3rd or 4th option for most people. We haven't had great success in Newark yet, but I don't anticipate it would create THAT much of a difference. The Devils ticket prices are also much higher than in Buffalo and I doubt Buffalo has a TV deal like the Devils do. We can't just look at attendance to decide on what teams make, it's probably too opaque for us to really guess where team revenues are, beyond the teams at the extreme upper and lower ends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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