Team USA result / WHC

[sammyk]

OK, so none of you have gone 80 in a Ferrari, but have you ever gone 45, even 50 in an ordinary car? It feels the same way. He probably didn't even realize he was doing 80.

Those of you with higher end cars will understand. Doing 50 in a Lincoln does NOT feel the same as doing 50 in an Escort.

[Satans Hockey]

OK, so none of you have gone 80 in a Ferrari, but have you ever gone 45, even 50 in an ordinary car? It feels the same way. He probably didn't even realize he was doing 80.

Those of you with higher end cars will understand. Doing 50 in a Lincoln does NOT feel the same as doing 50 in an Escort.

Yes, now we got 2 people who are thinking with their brains instead of their hearts all the time

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Im still curious to know why you miss Dan so much. Did you personally know him and im not talking about him throwing a puck into the crowd.

You know I was going to go in this whole thing, but I'm really not going to.

It doesn't matter if I knew him personally enough for you to describe him in glowing terms or if you get enough examples to believe it. You're not gonna get my point and I'm getting frustrated in trying to make it.

[Elias Sports Bureau]

OK, so none of you have gone 80 in a Ferrari, but have you ever gone 45, even 50 in an ordinary car?  It feels the same way.  He probably didn't even realize he was doing 80.

Those of you with higher end cars will understand.  Doing 50 in a Lincoln does NOT feel the same as doing 50 in an Escort.

Yes, now we got 2 people who are thinking with their brains instead of their hearts all the time

Thinking with your heart isn't such a bad thing.

And I think that going along with the Snyders family's wishes despite what I personally might do IS thinking with my brain.

Why does it matter that I don't wanna parade around in a Heatley jersey? It really shouldn't.

[Satans Hockey]

You know I was going to go in this whole thing, but I'm really not going to.

It doesn't matter if I knew him personally enough for you to describe him in glowing terms or if you get enough examples to believe it. You're not gonna get my point and I'm getting frustrated in trying to make it.

Id like to see you go into this whole thing. And it does matter if you knew him personally enough to describe him in glowing terms because then what are you basing that on

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Well sorry. I'm not discussing with you. Cause you already have your opinion and don't see my side even the slightest bit, so I'm pretty much done on the issue with you.

[Satans Hockey]

OK, so none of you have gone 80 in a Ferrari, but have you ever gone 45, even 50 in an ordinary car?

Edited May 9, 2004 by NJDEVILICEONFIRE

[Elias Sports Bureau]

Dude, I'm not on a soapbox.

I don't think I get a vote in Dan Snyder's life. I'm saying what his family wants is the way it should be.

You so don't get my point. You haven't gotten even a smidgen of it. You think I'm obsessed with Dan Snyder. I'm not. I'm sad that he's dead. Have you ever been sad that someone's dead when they shouldn't have died so soon? You seem obsessed with my reasons for thinking that he's a good guy.

Edited May 9, 2004 by Elias Sports Bureau

[Satans Hockey]

Dude, I'm not on a soapbox.

I don't think I get a vote in Dan Snyder's life. I'm saying what his family wants is the way it should be.

You so don't get my point. You haven't gotten even a smidgen of it.

Maybe the Wizard could give you a heart.

Ouch give him a heart. Im sorry I don't see things in life like you do. Death is something that doesnt bother me. It happens all the time, it happens to people old and young. Hey, let me put on the news and see how many people died today. Barely anyone knew who dan synder was before he died. I don't hold people in sports with a higher regard than anyone else and if it was any of the players on the devils I would feel the same way

[Elias Sports Bureau]

And I do get affected when I hear about people dying. And if any one of the Devils died, I would feel the same way.

Now you can see the problem we're having.

[Satans Hockey]

And I do get affected when I hear about people dying. And if any one of the Devils died, I would feel the same way.

Now you can see the problem we're having.

Yup, but thats the best thing about this country you can believe in whatever you want to believe in.

[FunkyBlueFish203]

Well, Dany Heatley did get named the MVP of the tournament. He also won the best forward award and made the tournament's starting lineup team. Congrats, Heater.

[devilsrule33]

Why would he deserve anything ESB. He showed how good he wa sin this tournament and most likely got a spot on the World Cup team because of it.

I am NOT talking about his performance.

I'm happy that everyone doesn't take the sugar-coated stance with Heatley. I don't give a g*ddamn about his hockey or how much he deserves the award.

I meant it as sympathy wise. Not hockey.

[Derek21]

http://ihwc.net/english/article/news/index.ihwc?&artId=1866

IIHF announces 2004 tournament all-stars

Dany Heatley has twice the reasons to celebrate after being named tournament MVP

The IIHF announced the 2004 tournament award winners directly after Canada defeated Sweden 5-3 to claim the gold medal at the IIHF World Championships in Prague. The tournament's MVP was Dany Heatley of Canada. The Directorate Award winners were Heatley as Best Forward, Dick Tarnstrom of Sweden as Best Defenseman, and Ty Conklin of the USA as Best Goalie.

The media all-star team consists of goalie Henrik Lundqvist (Sweden), defensemen Tarnstrom and Zdeno Chara (Slovakia), and forwards Heatley, Jaromir Jagr (Czech Republic), and Ville Peltonen (Finland).

Andrew Podnieks

Edited May 10, 2004 by Derek21

[FunkyBlueFish203]

Conks came out in street clothes to accept his award after the gold medal game and all the Canadian Oilers were heckling him, heh.

Awesome stuff

[NJDevs4978]

Yeah, Heatley will be MVP. That's the only qualm of the day.

Mr "I killed one of my best friends with my reckless driving and now am going to go win some scoring championships and get some gold medals like nothing ever happened" Heatley should be in jail in my opinion, not winning trophies for Canada. That was vehicular manslaughter IMHO.

I'm glad someone here can't tow the thank-god-he's-back-he-really-deserves-this line.

You know I don't get WHY you two had to start this thread careening downhill especially given the preferred team of a lot of people (Canada) won the gold and I thought it would be a joyous thread until I saw Don's first post (on Heatley)...I mean it's not like anyone said, 'Oh we feel so good for Heatley', it just started with someone making a comment that he's probably gonna be the MVP, and it's not like we haven't had this debate on here a number of times already on whether Heatley should be a sympathetic figure or not anyway.

It's just a fact that some people (like me) think that because the death was accidental and the Snyder family forgave him that Heatley should be allowed to move on with his life. And bear in mind Heatley has to live through his guilt in public, not like John Q. Stockbroker who doesn't have fans and media and whatnot prying into his life every day. Maybe I'm just jaded because I've seen more than enough skuzzy things by sports athletes (malicious death, rape, breaking the law in a thousand different ways) that I can't get worked up over an accident, a tragic accident of course but still an accident.

[Don]

You know I don't get WHY you two had to start this thread careening downhill especially given the preferred team of a lot of people (Canada) won the gold and I thought it would be a joyous thread until I saw Don's first post (on Heatley)...I mean it's not like anyone said, 'Oh we feel so good for Heatley', it just started with someone making a comment that he's probably gonna be the MVP, and it's not like we haven't had this debate on here a number of times already on whether Heatley should be a sympathetic figure or not anyway.

It's just a fact that some people (like me) think that because the death was accidental and the Snyder family forgave him that Heatley should be allowed to move on with his life. And bear in mind Heatley has to live through his guilt in public, not like John Q. Stockbroker who doesn't have fans and media and whatnot prying into his life every day. Maybe I'm just jaded because I've seen more than enough skuzzy things by sports athletes (malicious death, rape, breaking the law in a thousand different ways) that I can't get worked up over an accident, a tragic accident of course but still an accident.

In a PM to ESB I said that I regretted not biting my tongue.

But now I've changed my mind. Someone said that Heatley was likely going to win MVP. I said, yes he is likely going to win MVP and I have a hard time cheering for him winning. Why can't I say that? Because it's going to screw up a nice happy thread? Maybe someone should post "THIS IS A NICE HAPPY THREAD. NO NEGATIVE POSTS ALLOWED" at the top! I'm getting kicked in the balls for stating my opinion?

And *IF* it is so wrong to have this debate all over again, why do you bring it back up now that the thread had drifted onto Ty Conklin's performance? You're as guilty as I.

You may think that there are scuzzier things out there, but personally, I think driving 80mph through a residential neighborhood is pretty scuzzy. As I said earlier, not only is it stupid, it's criminal. That is vehicular manslaughter and reckless endangerment and you want to write it off like it's a parking ticket. I saw more remorse from Todd Bertuzzi at his press conference than I have seen from Heatley. What have I seen from Heatley? I saw him grinnin' from ear to ear today.

I don't like him. I very much DISLIKE him. There is no way I can cheer for him. And I think the U.S. has similar rights around freedom of speech, so I think I should have the right to say so.

[sammyk]

I saw more remorse from Todd Bertuzzi at his press conference than I have seen from Heatley. What have I seen from Heatley? I saw him grinnin' from ear to ear today.

You don't think Bertuzzi would have been grinning ear to ear had he just won something? That's human nature to be happy after something like that.

Perhaps Heatley does not like to show his feelings about the incident in public. For all we know he may go home every day and cry for hours.

Just because YOU haven't seen anything from Heatley, doesn't mean it's not there.

[NJDevs4978]

And *IF* it is so wrong to have this debate all over again, why do you bring it back up now that the thread had drifted onto Ty Conklin's performance? You're as guilty as I.

Well there was about 50 posts on the Heatley thing and TWO on the Conklin thing before I posted so I wasn't exactly dredging up a dead horse.

You're right in that you can make threads negative if you want because you're entitled to your opinion...just seemed to me like you two didn't 'need' to take those kind of shots and start what's guaranteed to be a polarizing debate, especially one we've had already a number of times.

I like you both...I just think that there's a difference between debating ad nauseum on hockey topics which we do all the time, and dredging this up. JMPO.

[Don]

Just because YOU haven't seen anything from Heatley, doesn't mean it's not there.

Aye. And so many people automatically assume that it IS there.

[sammyk]

Just because YOU haven't seen anything from Heatley, doesn't mean it's not there.

Aye. And so many people automatically assume that it IS there.

Well, I'm not assuming anything but people will always assume both ways. How are we to know though? We may never know what he goes through on a daily basis.

Should he be in jail? Perhaps. Is he not in jail because he's a hockey player? No.

[FunkyBlueFish203]

You may think that there are scuzzier things out there, but personally, I think driving 80mph through a residential neighborhood is pretty scuzzy. As I said earlier, not only is it stupid, it's criminal. That is vehicular manslaughter and reckless endangerment and you want to write it off like it's a parking ticket. I saw more remorse from Todd Bertuzzi at his press conference than I have seen from Heatley. What have I seen from Heatley? I saw him grinnin' from ear to ear today.

More remorse from Todd Bertuzzi. Did you not see the December 26th press conference held by Dany Heatley? All you see is a broken young man, who has to live with guilt for the rest of his life. I'll get some links for you.

You can hear the presser here.

You can watch the presser here.

Ilya Kovalchuk has spoken about Dany a lot. In one of his recent interviews after winning the Kharlamov trophy, he was asked about Dany again.

Did Heatley ever feel guilty?

When we talk, I try to not bring up this topic. But we will always remember Snydes - his sweater still hangs in the locker room and we wear his number over our shoulder every game... A lot of times, Dany will smile and laugh - and then in a few seconds, he will suddenly stop and fall silent. I try my best to support my friend and not talk about the subject.

But basically according to your reasoning, because Dany was not clutching a tissue and sobbing away, he wasn't showing any remorse.

And Todd Bertuzzi's incident doesn't even compare to this, because Todd Bertuzzi and his teammates thought about revenge for 3 weeks and then delivered on their words. It was a blatant attempt to injure. Please point out to us blind ones, the similar things in Dany Heatley's case.

There was a simple comment made, which said Dany would probably win the MVP. It was harmless because all it stated that Dany could win the award based on his performance on the ice. But no, you had to derail the thread. This is exactly why I called it rehashing.

It's okay if you don't want to cheer him on. And everyone knows he has made a mistake. But you are painting him out to be this horrendous monster because he is smiling after winning the gold medal. Come on already.

[Don]

But basically according to your reasoning, because Dany was not clutching a tissue and sobbing away, he wasn't showing any remorse.

And Todd Bertuzzi's incident doesn't even compare to this, because Todd Bertuzzi and his teammates thought about revenge for 3 weeks and then delivered on their words. It was a blatant attempt to injure. Please point out to us blind ones, the similar things in Dany Heatley's case.

There was a simple comment made, which said Dany would probably win the MVP. It was harmless because all it stated that Dany could win the award based on his performance on the ice. But no, you had to derail the thread. This is exactly why I called it rehashing.

It's okay if you don't want to cheer him on. And everyone knows he has made a mistake. But you are painting him out to be this horrendous monster because he is smiling after winning the gold medal. Come on already.

I can't get the links to work (despite there being a "MACS CLICK HERE" link, it doesn't work - Microsoft really doesn't put much effort into the media player for Macs).

Anyhow, yeah, I haven't seen Heatley cry over this. Not once. If Todd can fake a few tears for putting a guy in the hospital, I would think killing a teammate would make you emotional.

As for Todd's being worse because it was pre-meditated, the second crime, the reckless endangerment - that was pre-meditated. He purposefully went out and recklessly put his, Dans, any pedestrians and any other cars on the road that night into deadly peril. He purposefully put his foot down on that gas pedal.

Okay, what's the first state to come up here? Idaho....

Aggravated Assault/Battery = max 10 years for a first time offender

Vehicular Manslaughter = max 15 years for a first time offender

Your theory and the law seem to differ. You claim Bertuzzi's was worse because it was premeditated. The law seems to think Heatley's worse because someone is DEAD.

You say Heatley should win on merit. I say that is true, and that's been hard cheering for Canada because that means cheering for Heatley who I think should be in jail. I don't think it is rehashing. I said a statement that was true at that exact point in time. THIS WEEK I HAVE BEEN HAVING A HARD TIME CHEERING FOR CANADA BECAUSE IT MEANS CHEERING FOR HEATLEY WHO I THINK SHOULD BE IN JAIL. It is in the present.

I don't get this "rehashing" stuff. I stated what I felt at that exact moment. The only emotion I have seen from Heatley since the accident is what I saw today. And that churns my stomache.

[Satans Hockey]

lol i actually thought the heatley thing made this thread more interesting than canada winning the worlds aka the tournment where the losers come to play with the up and comers

[NJDevs4978]

Let's please bear in mind Bertuzzi's crocodile tears came literally days after the incident while Heatley's first public comments after the accident were MONTHS after the fact. The two do not compare. Whether Heatley did or did not cry MONTHS after the fact really shouldn't matter.