Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 TG has 'reported' - well, mentioned it in Fire and Ice comments, and referenced it again on Twitter yesterday, that Parise came to Lou in July 2010 wanting to sign a very long term deal without an agent. I don't know that the Devils could have signed such a deal and Kovalchuk because of tagging room rules, though. Funny thing about that is, had that happened, based on the last two seasons, I'm guessing a lot of Devils fans probably wouldn't have been happy with the returns. He would have been getting shredded in November. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Funny thing about that is, had that happened, based on the last two seasons, I'm guessing a lot of Devils fans probably wouldn't have been happy with the returns. He would have been getting shredded in November. I mean, if it had been similar to the deal Jeff Carter signed - 11 year, 66 million - I don't think it would've been *that* bad. The key is getting a cap hit where no one thinks that the player is an impediment to adding other players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Your previous post made your statement sound like an absolute, and here you are backing off it already. Your backpedalling makes it pretty clear that you know you can't think that way, in terms of that post. Clearly Lou thought his team had a serious shot to win a Cup (he wouldn't have traded for Zidlicky otherwise), and it turned out he was actually a lot closer to being right than anyone thought. Okay, take Zach out of the playoff lineup. Who on the Devils' roster or in the Devils' system is going to come close to doing what he can do, in all facets of the game? No way the Devils get as far as they did without him, even if the point totals weren't monstrous. I am not backpedalling from it. I thought the team had a shot to make a run, so I would have kept Zach despite possibly losing him for nothing. (like what happened) In a year when I did not think we had a legit shot I would deal an upcoming UFA that has hinted on leaving. (assuming you have tried signing them longterm to no avail) Zach is not a replaceable player by any means. But nobody will convince me that there was no chance we could have made the Finals without him.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 Again... this is not all about Zach, but simply about the way Lou is handling things, old school/stubborn/hard ball... agree its working most of the time and we dodged a few bullets like Gomez BUT... its still extremely risky. And of course its mostly speculations since we don't know exactly whats happening in Lou's office. Another thing is how he's stuck up on his ideas and will probably never even try to see the positive in not following them, like "no negociations during the season". Lou says its a distraction to talk during the season so he will simply never do it, thats his way, black and white... agreed it *could* be a distraction... but 100% of the time? really Lou? You're so sure its the way to go. Let me ask you guys put yourself in Zach's shoes (very expensive shoes now so enjoy), during the season and post-season what would have been the bigger distraction to you (Since Zach was actually verbally letting it known that he wanted to start contract discussions with Lou, many many times... but that he knew Lou was doing things a certain way and bla bla) • To at least start preliminary talks about a contract so you get the ball rolling. or • Having to deal with constant questions about his contract and non-existant talks with Lou to the media, Zach said it was hell at some point and i can see it. Especially with the bankrupt rumours and around the trade deadline. I'm using Zach's case only as an example here, don't throw me reasons of why he did things that way and why it was okay in THAT case.... simply answer me in which case you would have feel distracted the most Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMONPETEYD Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) On other point for all of you out there.... 2003 was an amazing draft class, we all know this... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html Is it me, or does anyone else find it disturbing that the FA class of 2012 was so thin. Out of the class of draft picks from 2003, the only FA's of note were Parise and Suter. EDIT: Matt Carle is there too, i missed him... Edited July 5, 2012 by CMONPETEYD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 On other point for all of you out there.... 2003 was an amazing draft class, we all know this... http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2003e.html Is it me, or does anyone else find it disturbing that the FA class of 2012 was so thin. Out of the class of draft picks from 2003, the only FA's of note were Parise and Suter. EDIT: Matt Carle is there too, i missed him... Getzlaf and Perry are UFA next year. Most guys signed long-term deals that put them through these years. And before I hear lots of carping from Devils fans, Zach Parise was on an ELC, a 4 year 3.125M per season deal, and a 6M deal. He probably made $20M as a member of the Devils while providing at least twice that in value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeCups Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Again... this is not all about Zach, but simply about the way Lou is handling things, old school/stubborn/hard ball... agree its working most of the time and we dodged a few bullets like Gomez BUT... its still extremely risky. And of course its mostly speculations since we don't know exactly whats happening in Lou's office. Another thing is how he's stuck up on his ideas and will probably never even try to see the positive in not following them, like "no negociations during the season". Lou says its a distraction to talk during the season so he will simply never do it, thats his way, black and white... agreed it *could* be a distraction... but 100% of the time? really Lou? You're so sure its the way to go. Let me ask you guys put yourself in Zach's shoes (very expensive shoes now so enjoy), during the season and post-season what would have been the bigger distraction to you (Since Zach was actually verbally letting it known that he wanted to start contract discussions with Lou, many many times... but that he knew Lou was doing things a certain way and bla bla) • To at least start preliminary talks about a contract so you get the ball rolling. or • Having to deal with constant questions about his contract and non-existant talks with Lou to the media, Zach said it was hell at some point and i can see it. Especially with the bankrupt rumours and around the trade deadline. I'm using Zach's case only as an example here, don't throw me reasons of why he did things that way and why it was okay in THAT case.... simply answer me in which case you would have feel distracted the most THIS. I am glad someone else is annoyed with Lou's procedures that he will not deviate from. It is a BIGGER distraction to let the situation loom. How can anyone ignore the elephant in the room?!? He better change his ways, starting NOW and with Travis. If he pulls this stunt again Travis is out in July...rumor has it Minny will make him a big offer as well. Getzlaf and Perry are UFA next year. Most guys signed long-term deals that put them through these years. And before I hear lots of carping from Devils fans, Zach Parise was on an ELC, a 4 year 3.125M per season deal, and a 6M deal. He probably made $20M as a member of the Devils while providing at least twice that in value. So Zach was a good value for us...but what does that mean now?!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) Getzlaf and Perry are UFA next year. Most guys signed long-term deals that put them through these years. And before I hear lots of carping from Devils fans, Zach Parise was on an ELC, a 4 year 3.125M per season deal, and a 6M deal. He probably made $20M as a member of the Devils while providing at least twice that in value. talking about those 2... How many of you guys really think that on June 25 2013 that the Ducks will not have approach Perry and Getzlaf with contracts at all or began negociations... seriously? Edited July 5, 2012 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Getzlaf and Perry are UFA next year. Most guys signed long-term deals that put them through these years. And before I hear lots of carping from Devils fans, Zach Parise was on an ELC, a 4 year 3.125M per season deal, and a 6M deal. He probably made $20M as a member of the Devils while providing at least twice that in value. And this is why I feel like the Devils got a much better value for what Zach gave them than the Wild will get. Ideally you keep plugging in guys who can provide a semblance of what was lost, either solo or by committee, and let some of the proven guys go when some other teams decides to wildly (no pun intended) overspend for them. Clearly the Devils don't have that guy or guys who seem like the obvious guy(s) to do this in Zach's case, but I'd rather see what I could do that's cost-effective, as opposed to shelling out 13 years and $98 million for a guy who might have already seen his very best seasons. As as terrific as Zach has been as a Devil, there aren't that many players who turn in, say, 10+ years total of what Zach's done to date. Including his injury-plagued 2010-11 campaign, if one thinks that Zach has, say, 10-11 years of typical Zach play before he declines, that leaves about 4-5 seasons of him playing at that level...problem is there's 8-9 more after that on his contract, at a massive cap hit. He's getting a nice chunk of that money up front, but still...extremely risky. Still glad the Devils aren't the ones paying him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 talking about those 2... How many of you guys really think that on June 25 2013 that the Ducks will not have approach Perry and Getzlaf with contracts at all or began negociations... seriously? If the Ducks make the Cup Final and their owner's selling his houses on Mediterranean Avenue just to keep the franchise afloat, I'd believe it, sure. Ultimately, the player has to want to be here, and the GM has to want him here. That's it, end of story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aylbert Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 One big reason Parise and Suter were so sought after was because the UFA market is pretty slim this off season. One big reason it was so slim, the rest of the players were signed to long term deals before hitting UFA. Parise's injury hurt us a lot more than missing the playoffs last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 THIS. I am glad someone else is annoyed with Lou's procedures that he will not deviate from. It is a BIGGER distraction to let the situation loom. How can anyone ignore the elephant in the room?!? He better change his ways, starting NOW and with Travis. If he pulls this stunt again Travis is out in July...rumor has it Minny will make him a big offer as well. So Zach was a good value for us...but what does that mean now?!? It means Zach wasn't going to get over-paid here. If Travis wants to be here next year, he will be. If he doesn't, he won't be. Lou isn't going to spend the season on his knees begging people to play here. Lou tried a long term deal last summer, but neither side could agree. He offered Zach a contract near the trade deadline, Zach decided to decline and listen to his agents and go to free agency. Lou wasn't going to call Zach every night of the playoffs asking him if he changed his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 Lou tried a long term deal last summer, but neither side could agree. He offered Zach a contract near the trade deadline, Zach decided to decline and listen to his agents and go to free agency. Lou wasn't going to call Zach every night of the playoffs asking him if he changed his mind. Apparently in some people's eyes he should have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerrydevil Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) I have an issue with LL's free agency handlings. It is stubborn and stupid. You do not wait for marquee players to hit free agency. Plain and simple. If you want to retain your best players, you put your best foot/offer forward WELL BEFORE free agency and try to get them to stay. If you cannot come to a deal, you TRADE them before the deadline for whatever assets you can get for them. THE END. Marquee players WANT to hit the market in many instances. You often make more money when more than one team is bidding for your services. Even very good players (not just the great ones) want to hit the market. Ask Brian Gionta, Scott Gomez and more recently, Dennis Wideman and PA Parenteau. So don't be shocked when Travis Zajac decides he wants to become unrestricted, too. You want players to sign earlier, and for less money. Why should they? Edited July 5, 2012 by Jerrydevil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 It means Zach wasn't going to get over-paid here. If Travis wants to be here next year, he will be. If he doesn't, he won't be. Lou isn't going to spend the season on his knees begging people to play here. Lou tried a long term deal last summer, but neither side could agree. He offered Zach a contract near the trade deadline, Zach decided to decline and listen to his agents and go to free agency. Lou wasn't going to call Zach every night of the playoffs asking him if he changed his mind. can you please show me reports or rumours of this cause i never saw anything about it... thank you in advance bro. I must be 100% true if you're using it in your arguments as if it was official. i will be here, waiting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 can you please show me reports or rumours of this cause i never saw anything about it... thank you in advance bro. I must be 100% true if you're using it in your arguments as if it was official. i will be here, waiting. Just going off-hand, I remember reading a couple of reports (I think from TG) about Lou offering Zach a contract and Zach said he wanted to wait until free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) can you please show me reports or rumours of this cause i never saw anything about it... thank you in advance bro. I must be 100% true if you're using it in your arguments as if it was official. i will be here, waiting. There were rumors of a 7/50 contract that floated around in February. I'm not the only one who has mentioned this, so I'm not sure why you are singling me out for it. DevsMan84 seems to remember it too. I'd like to see your reports or rumors that say a contract was never offered. I'm pretty sure Zach went into silent mode right before the trade deadline and said he wasn't taking questions about it anymore. Edited July 5, 2012 by Devil Dan 56 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 There were rumors of a 7/50 contract that floated around in February. I'm not the only one who has mentioned this, so I'm not sure why you are singling me out for it. DevsMan84 seems to remember it too. I'd like to see your reports or rumors that say a contract was never offered. I'm pretty sure Zach went into silent mode right before the trade deadline and said he wasn't taking questions about it anymore. I remember it as well. It was basically a carbon copy of Marian Hossa's offer that the Pens made him before he walked. And Zach most definitely did the "Im not talking about that" stance around the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) There were rumors of a 7/50 contract that floated around in February. I'm not the only one who has mentioned this, so I'm not sure why you are singling me out for it. DevsMan84 seems to remember it too. I'd like to see your reports or rumors that say a contract was never offered. I'm pretty sure Zach went into silent mode right before the trade deadline and said he wasn't taking questions about it anymore. Add me to that list. I remember 7/50 or 7/49. Edited July 5, 2012 by Zubie#8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 There were rumors of a 7/50 contract that floated around in February. I'm not the only one who has mentioned this, so I'm not sure why you are singling me out for it. DevsMan84 seems to remember it too. I'd like to see your reports or rumors that say a contract was never offered. I'm pretty sure Zach went into silent mode right before the trade deadline and said he wasn't taking questions about it anymore. im singling you out cause i like you so much dude. I just don't remember hearing anything about it at all and Lou clearly said that he would not talk about contracts before the end of the season. Its true that Zach went in silent mode after the trade deadline tho but he was also sick of it by then. I'd still like to see a report though... not that i don't believe you guys but i'd like to see something. But why would they tried to "get a deal done" per zach / Lou / Arnott before the deadline if they all knew he was going to July 1st... doesnt make sense at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 But why would they tried to "get a deal done" per zach / Lou / Arnott before the deadline if they all knew he was going to July 1st... doesnt make sense at all From all indications, Lou went to Zach around January with this rumored offer. Arnott advised Zach to turn it down and just wait til July. That's what happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 'From all indications'? I mean, it's a rumor reported by a member of this board. A member who I definitely trust, but I don't know his source or what it is. I'm therefore not taking it as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 'From all indications'? I mean, it's a rumor reported by a member of this board. A member who I definitely trust, but I don't know his source or what it is. I'm therefore not taking it as gospel. I don't think he even took it as gospel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted July 5, 2012 Author Share Posted July 5, 2012 'From all indications'? I mean, it's a rumor reported by a member of this board. A member who I definitely trust, but I don't know his source or what it is. I'm therefore not taking it as gospel. i just asked TG about it so we'll see, it could be true but im not gonna let posters here gives me sh!t about what i'm saying using only a rumour for their main argument against it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 5, 2012 Share Posted July 5, 2012 I don't think he even took it as gospel. Which I didnt, perhaps a bad choice of words "from all indications", but that rumor is not new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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