Daniel Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Like I wrote in my previous post, it's not about the big names, but what players are out there in free agency to play a meaningful role. Signing Janssen and Barch was completely pointless. If anything proves this it was the Rangers/Devils series. We stayed above the goonery, but the Rags couldn't help it with guys like Rupp and Prust. If anything goonery is headed towards the mold of a hybrid goon like a Tootoo or Prust. Someone who can play when need be. But, besides Parise, re-upping goons wasn't out other priority. If you look through Capgeek's list of available free agent forwards there are still plenty that Lou could have signed which would have made me breath a bit easier. Instead he chose to sign two guys who should have chosen different careers. Tri can correct me if I'm wrong on the precise terminology for the logical fallacy, but you've presented a false dichotomy. Lou was not presented with the dilemma of (1) signing Janssen and Barch or (2) not signing Janssen and Barch and getting a player to your liking. Whether the Devils do or do not get Semin, Doan, Nash, Crosby, getting Parise to change his mind and come back, has nothing to do with Janssen or Barch. If anything, Lou's biggest blunder was Salvador's deal. Because of that, we'll likely be downgrading our defensive corps by being forced to trade someone better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 The more silence...the more I am skidish on Semin. I know most people here feel the team needs a replacement for Parise, but you can't get desperate and Semin just doesn't feel like that be it. I have heard some comparisons about Kovalchuk in Atlanta and Semin in Washington, but I don't see them at all. Kovalchuk was never described as lazy, not caring, unfriendly, unmotivated, etc. If anything Kovalchuk was criticized as times being too selfish because he felt he needed to be the one to will the team to victory. He's the one who felt he had to do it himself and go 1-on-5. Kovalchuk was also a guy who learned English and was friendly with everyone on the team. Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any. When a player comes out and says the things that Matt Bradley said about Semin and no one really on your own team defends you, that says something. He felt Semin didn't have any interest in being in Washington and wanted to go back to Russia, while he defended and praised Ovechkin heavily as a team-first guy. And finally, it just seems like GMs around the league are scared sh!tless about giving this guy a long-term deal. We have already heard Jim Rutherford make the comments and he is badly looking to add scoring. No one can trust this guy at all. It's the reason he has been on 1-year deals the last little while in Washington too. This guy has too many red flags. Sometimes you have to look past the talent. It seems like most GMs are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Tri can correct me if I'm wrong on the precise terminology for the logical fallacy, but you've presented a false dichotomy. Lou was not presented with the dilemma of (1) signing Janssen and Barch or (2) not signing Janssen and Barch and getting a player to your liking. Whether the Devils do or do not get Semin, Doan, Nash, Crosby, getting Parise to change his mind and come back, has nothing to do with Janssen or Barch. If anything, Lou's biggest blunder was Salvador's deal. Because of that, we'll likely be downgrading our defensive corps by being forced to trade someone better. I'm not connecting the signings of Barch or Janssen to Parise or other potential UFA signings. I'm arguing that Lou made a mistake in signing two enforcers. If this club is going to need to pinch pennies then signing Barch and Janssen is nonsense because only one guy is needed. So are you making a Schroedenger's Cat argument with Janssen and Barch? If we put them in a box do they remain signed and unsigned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any. I could care less if he doesn't speak English or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I could care less if he doesn't speak English or not. Our coaches and players may. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) The more silence...the more I am skidish on Semin. I know most people here feel the team needs a replacement for Parise, but you can't get desperate and Semin just doesn't feel like that be it. I have heard some comparisons about Kovalchuk in Atlanta and Semin in Washington, but I don't see them at all. Kovalchuk was never described as lazy, not caring, unfriendly, unmotivated, etc. If anything Kovalchuk was criticized as times being too selfish because he felt he needed to be the one to will the team to victory. He's the one who felt he had to do it himself and go 1-on-5. Kovalchuk was also a guy who learned English and was friendly with everyone on the team. Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any. When a player comes out and says the things that Matt Bradley said about Semin and no one really on your own team defends you, that says something. He felt Semin didn't have any interest in being in Washington and wanted to go back to Russia, while he defended and praised Ovechkin heavily as a team-first guy. And finally, it just seems like GMs around the league are scared sh!tless about giving this guy a long-term deal. We have already heard Jim Rutherford make the comments and he is badly looking to add scoring. No one can trust this guy at all. It's the reason he has been on 1-year deals the last little while in Washington too. This guy has too many red flags. Sometimes you have to look past the talent. It seems like most GMs are. There is evidence of Semin being liked. It was only one teammate who said anything and that is a knock against Bradley for opening his mouth. His other teammates obviously shouldn't have responded and blew up the story more. There are red flags and its a questionable signing but as far as I've seen his teammates get on with him just fine. Semin doesn't speak English and has no relationship with anyone on Washington and has made no effort to build any. Aside from the English issue which I have pointed out as a red flag myself, this is just complete speculation. I do like what u said about Kovy. Edited July 10, 2012 by ben00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I'm not connecting the signings of Barch or Janssen to Parise or other potential UFA signings. I'm arguing that Lou made a mistake in signing two enforcers. If this club is going to need to pinch pennies then signing Barch and Janssen is nonsense because only one guy is needed. Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error. I look at Barch as an upgrade of Boulton. Boulton was a pylon. Barch actually can skate. I don't see either Barch or Cam getting any time in the playoffs. This was a move made for the regular season, which is what we should be focused on now. We can worry about adding for the playoff run at the deadline when there will be more sellers. Everyone's at square one right now thinking they have a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Janssen has a two way deal. Barch and Janssen are maybe both in the lineup together for 5 to 10 games. Barch probably plays maybe 20 to 30 games, and he's not completely worthless. At worst the signings are silly. Boulton was as useless a signing as it gets. It ultimately did not effect the end result of last season. The cost of Boulton's buy out is essentially a rounding error. If you want to replace poop with poop then sign Barch. There's no need to sign Janssen. Guy's a sideshow. He should be working in a big tent, lifting up heavy objects with his nutsack. Edited July 10, 2012 by CarpathianForest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There's no need to sign Janssen. Guy's a sideshow. He should be working in a big tent, lifting up heavy objects with his nutsack. In other words, Albany, which could be very well where he's spending most of the season. Or perhaps in the press box taking pictures with fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In other words, Albany, which could be very well where he's spending most of the season. Or perhaps in the press box taking pictures with fans. In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole. That was on this team last year, a team who made the Stanley Cup Finals. As was Boulton. Again, you're complaining about a move that has nothing to do with the Parise move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 In other words, he offers nothing of value on the ice to the Devils. He's just a giant 500,000 dollar hole. If he's in Albany, it's more like a $50,000 hole. Otherwise, you're not writing the check, it doesn't effect the amount of money you end up shelling out to go to a game, the mystery investor doesn't care, the creditors don't care, and it won't effect any other possible beneficial roster move down the road. It doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 That was on this team last year, a team who made the Stanley Cup Finals. As was Boulton. Again, you're complaining about a move that has nothing to do with the Parise move. I noted earlier that I'm not making the argument in regards to Parise. Boulton and Janssen had about as much to do with us making the SCF as the Devils mascot did, maybe even less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Boulton and Janssen had about as much to do with us making the SCF as the Devils mascot did, maybe even less. And the re-signing of Janssen and Barch have nothing to do with "replacing" anyone other than Boulton. Its not a bad thing to have some muscle/goonery on the team. They're moves for the regular season. Why are you carrying on so much about this? Nobody else seems to be giving as much of a sh!t about this as you. There's still 3 months before the season to improve and "replace" Parise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 And the re-signing of Janssen and Barch have nothing to do with "replacing" anyone other than Boulton. Its not a bad thing to have some muscle/goonery on the team. They're moves for the regular season. Why are you carrying on so much about this? Nobody else seems to be giving as much of a sh!t about this as you. There's still 3 months before the season to improve and "replace" Parise. Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton? There wasn't a desperate need but Lou clearly likes to have 2 enforcers i.e. Boulton and Jansse last year, so Boulton did need to be replaced. Lou knew the guy he wanted so he got him - it wasn't done out of haste. Just because he signed him before he did bigger, more important moves doesn't mean it was desperate. Not everything is going to happen in the order that the fans want it to happen. For all we know, Lou already had an idea of who he was going to trade before he signed Barch. Edited July 10, 2012 by ben00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Because just when I think I've exhausted my discussion I read WTF things like, "We signed Barch to replace Boulton." Is it just me or was there really a desperate need to replace Eric Boulton? Who else would Barch be "replacing"? Barch is nothing more than an enforcer-type. We had two enforcers last year. Just because he bought out Boulton doesnt mean that he didnt want another one. Boulton was crap for us last year. In 10-11 we had no muscle and a lot of people thought that was an issue, the year prior to that we had Peters and LeBlond. And none of them ever play that many games anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oconnellrules Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 im actually in favor of signing semin but his addition would not help one of our biggest needs; toughness/grit. we need a sandpaper type a la steve ott or steve downie. not a player who slap fights with his gloves on. he does have some phenomenal skills tho. im torn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 well word from Chesnokov is that Semin was offered a two year deal from CSKA at around the same salary he made playing for the Caps. There's also rumor that Semin has inked a 1 year deal with the Pens. As to my earlier argument: There is no need to replace Boulton. As I recall last year many on this forum were rightly confused when we signed both Cam and Boulton. Bottom line is that the NHL is such that if you don't have any upside, offensive or defensive, then you're useless. Barch and Janssen are dinosaurs just because they don't bring anything but goonery. Now I know Barch and Janssen have nothing to do with other signings or Zach etc. What I am saying is is that Lou shouldn't waste his time signing goons. He should be working on bringing in real depth players. It's going to suck when the Phillys, Pitts and NYRs go out and get the Nashs, Semins and Ryans of the NHL and the Devils are still signing the Barchs, Janssens and Boultons of the NHL. Lou not only needs to address the immediate concerns of this team, but he also has to stay competitive, not only with the league, but with the division. I just don't see how signing Barch and Janssen does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Saw the rumor, not sure what to make of it - it's from a Russian website. http://www.sportti.com/uutinen.asp?CAT=2-3&ID=222196 Edited July 10, 2012 by ben00rs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 There is evidence of Semin being liked. It was only one teammate who said anything and that is a knock against Bradley for opening his mouth. His other teammates obviously shouldn't have responded and blew up the story more. There are red flags and its a questionable signing but as far as I've seen his teammates get on with him just fine. Aside from the English issue which I have pointed out as a red flag myself, this is just complete Bradley is a respected veteran. I trust his opinion on the manner. I disagree about teammates keeping silence if they disagreed. If Zach Parise said this about Ilya Kovalchuk, I would expect pretty much all the teammates to stand up for him if it wasn't true: “I don’t mind saying Alexander Semin’s name, because he’s one guy who has so much talent, he could easily be the best player in the league, and just for whatever reason, just doesn’t care.“When you’ve got a guy like that, you need him to be your best player, or one of your best players, and when he doesn't show up, you almost get the sense that he wants to be back in Russia. That’s tough to win when you’ve got a guy like that who’s supposed to be your best player not being your best player, or one of your best players." And what Bradley wanted about star guys being held accountable and heart and soul guys like Chimera getting opportunities ended up being what happened this past season in Washington. From what I have read with quotes from guys that used to work for the Capitals, he makes no effort to get along with anyone or talk with anyone. It seems anyone who leaves Washington is fine with talking crap about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) well word from Chesnokov is that Semin was offered a two year deal from CSKA at around the same salary he made playing for the Caps. There's also rumor that Semin has inked a 1 year deal with the Pens. As to my earlier argument: There is no need to replace Boulton. As I recall last year many on this forum were rightly confused when we signed both Cam and Boulton. Bottom line is that the NHL is such that if you don't have any upside, offensive or defensive, then you're useless. Barch and Janssen are dinosaurs just because they don't bring anything but goonery. Now I know Barch and Janssen have nothing to do with other signings or Zach etc. What I am saying is is that Lou shouldn't waste his time signing goons. He should be working on bringing in real depth players. It's going to suck when the Phillys, Pitts and NYRs go out and get the Nashs, Semins and Ryans of the NHL and the Devils are still signing the Barchs, Janssens and Boultons of the NHL. Lou not only needs to address the immediate concerns of this team, but he also has to stay competitive, not only with the league, but with the division. I just don't see how signing Barch and Janssen does that. Grrr. You admit that Barch and Janssen have nothing to do with other possible moves, but then say Lou is somehow wasting his time. I can picture it now: Hey Lou, Scott Howson's on the phone and he wants to trade you Nash for Tedenby straight up. Sorry, tell him to fvck off, I'm on a conference call with Cam and Krys. EDIT: And I would be thrilled if the Rags, in their quest to add a big name part with one of their starting defensemen. Edited July 10, 2012 by Daniel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghdi Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Say Alex Semin 10 times fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 Grrr. You admit that Barch and Janssen have nothing to do with other possible moves, but then say Lou is somehow wasting his time. I can picture it now: Hey Lou, Scott Howson's on the phone and he wants to trade you Nash for Tedenby straight up. Sorry, tell him to fvck off, I'm on a conference call with Cam and Krys. EDIT: And I would be thrilled if the Rags, in their quest to add a big name part with one of their starting defensemen. Lou is totally wasting his time on these signings. And I mean time figuratively in that he's not addressing team needs. Look here's the lines as they currently sit(if we re-sign Sykora: Kovy-Zajac-Henrique Elias-Zubrus-Sykora Clarkson-Josefson-Tedenby CBGB If you think those lines can manage to keep us sitting pretty until the trade deadline when we address our needs then more power to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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