Neb00rs Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Another day another multiple PK-failure game as the Devils allowed two PP goals. The record-breaking penalty kill of yester last year has now fallen to 22nd in the league at 79%. In the last stretch of games it has to be somewhere around 50%. So - the obvious question is.....what the hell are we doing wrong and how do we fix it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Pretty much all the multi-goal games against on the PK have come with Fayne out of the lineup...there's your solution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 The solution: Quit taking so many god damned penalties! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Have other teams start to fumble the puck more and Marty make some big stops. In general the PK has looked ok but other teams are really passing well right now, which will happen sometimes. The Devils also tend to overcommit a bit when pucks are in the corner, so I'd stop that. I'd also take Gionta off the PK as he doesn't create a big enough zone of coverage. Those are general comments, the PK giving up lots of goals lately is probably more random than to do with any one thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socbrian Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) I have noticed the devils have been taking more penalties than normal, or at least my feeling was that they are. I pulled some numbers together over the 5 years. I looked at minors instead of total plenty minutes or majors. Minutes can be skewed by fights and misconducts, so I only looked at minor penalties. Year Games Minors Minors per game 2013 17 84 4.941176 2012 82 270 3.292683 2011 82 249 3.036585 2010 82 264 3.219512 2009 82 359 4.378049 2008 82 339 4.134146 It seem the best fix to the PK is stop taking so many penalties. *Granted 17 games is a small sample compared to a full season Edited February 22, 2013 by socbrian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheprodigy Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well I won't attempt to tackle the whole issue right now but I will say that missing Zubrus obviously isn't helping us. Also, if we're comparing to last season, don't forget that we lost our best penalty killer to free agency. The people we've been filling in with - the Giontas and (before being sent down) Josefsons - haven't been as good. No real surprise that we haven't been as good, although I would expect us to be better than we have been recently. I'm hoping it's just a bad few games and they'll turn it around soon. We did, after all, have a really good penalty killing stretch just a week or two ago. I doubt we're doing anything significantly differently, it just hasn't been working as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) missing Zach on the PK is big he was unreal last least. He was giving trouble to the point man and to the guy on the side not leaving space for them and rushing to them to make them lose the puck. Anyone denying that we're missing Zach in simply butt hurt and in denial (not talking about his contract and anything) but not having his work ethic and speed and determination is showing sometimes. We can live without it but its cerainly harder edit : of course i'd like to bring back the point that Triumph was arguing with me that it was no big deal losing Zach on our PK cause Zajac was back... so much for that, turns out i was right about that too. Edited February 22, 2013 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njd3b1ink Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 You do realize that Zach never killed penalties till last season right? Also that when it came down to who was the "go to guy" on the pk is was Elias right? Not saying Zach leaving doesn't hurt the pk (cause he was good on it) but to say that the devils pk is now bad because Zach "the almighty" Parise left is so false it's laughable. There are 3 pk forward units so 6 forwards are being used (sometimes 7 in some cases). Bottom line it's asinine to think that a player who really only plays a third of the pk is the reason the entire thing has gone to sh!t these past 10 games or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Zubrus is a huge part of the PK as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamtheprodigy Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 You do realize that Zach never killed penalties till last season right? Also that when it came down to who was the "go to guy" on the pk is was Elias right? Not saying Zach leaving doesn't hurt the pk (cause he was good on it) but to say that the devils pk is now bad because Zach "the almighty" Parise left is so false it's laughable. There are 3 pk forward units so 6 forwards are being used (sometimes 7 in some cases). Bottom line it's asinine to think that a player who really only plays a third of the pk is the reason the entire thing has gone to sh!t these past 10 games or so. You are exaggerating what I and others said. It's not that "Oh noes Zach is gone now we can't kill penalties", it's that losing 2 of our top PKers from last season, and now losing Josefson, who was playing the most PK min. per game on the team, is starting to wear on the unit. Like I mentioned, I think some bad luck the last few games is the biggest reason we're in the bottom of the league right now percentage-wise and I think we'll bounce back. But would the unit be better if we had Parise and Zubrus playing instead of Gionta/Poni/Carter/whoever? Absolutely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Last year the units were Zubrus Elias Parise Henrique Kovalchuk Zajac Now its Elias Henrique Kovalchuk Zajac Gionta Ponikarovsky We need that Patty Zubs unit back, it was amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 You do realize that Zach never killed penalties till last season right? Also that when it came down to who was the "go to guy" on the pk is was Elias right? Not saying Zach leaving doesn't hurt the pk (cause he was good on it) but to say that the devils pk is now bad because Zach "the almighty" Parise left is so false it's laughable. There are 3 pk forward units so 6 forwards are being used (sometimes 7 in some cases). Bottom line it's asinine to think that a player who really only plays a third of the pk is the reason the entire thing has gone to sh!t these past 10 games or so. and our PK was not that great before that season either. How can anyone forget how Zach was a hell to play against on the PK? his hustle and forecheck would keep those guys in their zone for long stretches and point men would have a hard time settling the puck. it's not the reason our PK is bad but he left a big hole and no one is playing the way he is and to fill his spot we have guys like Gionta... in that way yes its hurting not to have him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I guess we're all conveniently forgetting that the PK was like 75% in the playoffs. If the goalies stop 80% of the shots your PK will suck, and if they stop 92%, it will be great - shot prevention or allowance can't make up for those sorts of gaps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njd3b1ink Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 and our PK was not that great before that season either. How can anyone forget how Zach was a hell to play against on the PK? his hustle and forecheck would keep those guys in their zone for long stretches and point men would have a hard time settling the puck. it's not the reason our PK is bad but he left a big hole and no one is playing the way he is and to fill his spot we have guys like Gionta... in that way yes its hurting not to have him I remember Zach playing very good on the pk, but I also remember that the Elias zubrus pairing was the smartest pairing we had. Like triumph said, come playoffs our pk was crap also. Maybe we are more predicable now? Idk if that's it. But I can tell you that losing 1 guy who plays a third of the time is not the reason. With the personel we have this season we should still be a top team in pk. Gionta shouldn't be there (I would like loktionov to get time there instead) and losing zubrus/josefson hurts also. So if u count Zach, as of right now we are without Parise, zubrus, and JJ from last year. Hopefully down the road the top 6 become: Elias, zubrus, Zajac, kovy, henrique, and loktionov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 29th Pick Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 our PK is beyond repair Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 23, 2013 Author Share Posted February 23, 2013 our PK is beyond repair lookin' that way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 I remember Zach playing very good on the pk, but I also remember that the Elias zubrus pairing was the smartest pairing we had. Like triumph said, come playoffs our pk was crap also. Maybe we are more predicable now? Idk if that's it. But I can tell you that losing 1 guy who plays a third of the time is not the reason. With the personel we have this season we should still be a top team in pk. Gionta shouldn't be there (I would like loktionov to get time there instead) and losing zubrus/josefson hurts also. So if u count Zach, as of right now we are without Parise, zubrus, and JJ from last year. Hopefully down the road the top 6 become: Elias, zubrus, Zajac, kovy, henrique, and loktionov Zach was also responsible for a LOT of our SH goals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njd3b1ink Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Zach was also responsible for a LOT of our SH goals. And we are on pace to do just as good as we did last year in that department. On another note, gionta is absolutely brutal on the pk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted February 23, 2013 Share Posted February 23, 2013 Okay I was wrong One thing's for sure, Pete can't be writing this off as a small sample size any longer. There needs to be adjustments made - personnel, tactics or both. Our PK has been a joke since last April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Pretty much all the multi-goal games against on the PK have come with Fayne out of the lineup...there's your solution . So much for that theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AEWHistory Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 (edited) I guess we're all conveniently forgetting that the PK was like 75% in the playoffs. If the goalies stop 80% of the shots your PK will suck, and if they stop 92%, it will be great - shot prevention or allowance can't make up for those sorts of gaps.This sorta reminds me of the day my Mom pulled me aside to tell me she had finally grasped football. She said, "okay, I've got this game. When you have the ball you should always go forward, never backwards, and you should try to avoid just running to the side. When the other team has the ball then you should get the ball back, right?"I thought to myself, yep, that covers it--she's ready to coach. I guess hockey is the same way. If you block shots the other team doesn't score and if you don't then they do. I'm just kidding Triumph. I think youre just trying to illustrate how thin the margin for error is between a good and poor PK, it's just the way you worded it or the way I read it hit my funny bone. Seriously though, there is so much more to the story than those number IMO. I can't help but wonder if there are PKs that disprove this point. Let me explain. If you have a very good goalie behind a crap PK then it would not surprise me that he would be bombarded before finally succumbing and letting in a goal on the PK. Think Chico Resch with the Rockies and Devils. It would've been easy to have a crap GAA with a decent save PCT because the defense was sooooo porous. OTOH, a good defense with a crap goalie would appear the exact opposite in theory. The goalie would have fewer shots against but, being a mediocrity, would allow in enough goals to undermine an otherwise good performance by the PK. I don't have a ready example here. So if you're examining the PK units, a high save percentage may simply be a sign of a porous defense and a low save percentage might be a good defense. Come to think of it, didn't that hurt Marty in the '90s? He faced relatively few shots because of the Devs D? Edited February 24, 2013 by AEWHistory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted February 24, 2013 Author Share Posted February 24, 2013 So, now that the "this is just bad luck," theory has been debunked... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted February 24, 2013 Share Posted February 24, 2013 Don't play Gionta. That kill was perfectly fine until Gionta couldn't get the clear with everyone in the corner. Shot still should have been stopped, but it shouldn't have happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 So, now that the "this is just bad luck," theory has been debunked... It certainly has not been. Obviously not playing Gionta would be helpful (this is where the Devils are missing Mathieu Darche, who would've at least been able to keep Gionta off the PK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted February 25, 2013 Share Posted February 25, 2013 Not as if Gionta is the only problem, JJ made many mistakes on the PK too, today they both went on the same player to the point leaving another guy wide open on the other side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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