1Guy3Cups Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 The only point I was trying to get at is he's really not playing that far off from how he has ALWAYS played. If he isn't playing with a Zajac who couldn't put a puck in the ocean and a rookie shoehorned into a top line slot because Lou didn't feel like even attempting to replace Parise, then he's probably at or above where he is expected to be. That's the point I'm trying to make. People have been knocking Kovy as being "useless" at 5 on 5 and that he can only score on the PP. Well duh, look at the line he played on for the better part of the season. Kovy's "failure" to dominate is mostly, if not entirely, on Lou this season. I think one of the biggest issues is the shuffling of the lines... Nobody has has a chance to get in a flow.. I see why they are trying to shake things up but its not working.. The CBGB line has been solid all year and has played together most games... That is the recipe for success with what we have.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PWW Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) True but still... when you're making that much money you're supposed to make the other players better, not rely on them to produce. I'm not knocking on Kovy by the way. To an extent, yes. But you can't FORCE them to. Matteau wasn't ready to be there and Zajac just looked abysmal and invisible for the first half of the season. You can lead the horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And I know you're not, I'm just saying he landed right about where he should've been expected to on the production scale based on what he had to work with. Edited April 5, 2013 by PWW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 True but still... when you're making that much money you're supposed to make the other players better, not rely on them to produce. I'm not knocking on Kovy by the way. See this is not exactly fair to Kovy either. That was the contract that Lou handed to him. You are making it seem like it is the other way around. Lou very well knows that there is always a chance he would not "live up" to it but that is the chance he took. To make it seem like Kovy is breaking some kind of a promise that he made with a contract he didn't offer is absurd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLL765 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 True but still... when you're making that much money you're supposed to make the other players better, not rely on them to produce. I'm not knocking on Kovy by the way. John Tavares can do it. He's amazing though. I didn't like him when I first saw him at WJC a few years ago. I thought he seemed a bit selfish, but he's really, really good. He's got some serious crap around him, but he's makes that team so much better. Without him, the Isles are dead last. Kovy isn't quite the player that makes everyone around him better ipso facto, he's very good though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) John Tavares can do it. He's amazing though. I didn't like him when I first saw him at WJC a few years ago. I thought he seemed a bit selfish, but he's really, really good. He's got some serious crap around him, but he's makes that team so much better. Without him, the Isles are dead last. Kovy isn't quite the player that makes everyone around him better ipso facto, he's very good though. Exactly. Kovy didn't exactly make everyone better when he was on Atlanta either, but that is just how he is. The one year Atlanta made the playoffs he had Slava Kozlov and Hossa with him (and he was behind them in points too!) Edited April 5, 2013 by DevsMan84 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATLL765 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Exactly. Kovy didn't exactly make everyone better when he was on Atlanta either, but that is just how he is. The one year Atlanta made the playoffs he had Slava Kozlov and Hossa with him (and he was behind them in points too!) I feel like he's on the cusp of that though. Because when he's hot, he makes people better, but when he's cold, he definitely does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Guy3Cups Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 I just wish he would attack the net more... he has the ability to drive and jook people.. why doesn't he?? always looking for that snipe.. he would easily be in the top 20 if he did that.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 See this is not exactly fair to Kovy either. That was the contract that Lou handed to him. You are making it seem like it is the other way around. Lou very well knows that there is always a chance he would not "live up" to it but that is the chance he took. To make it seem like Kovy is breaking some kind of a promise that he made with a contract he didn't offer is absurd. Wow dude you are incredibly reaching there assuming thats what i meant or said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Wow dude you are incredibly reaching there assuming thats what i meant or said. No you put it quite clear. You said for the amount of money he is getting he should be making the players around him better. Not exactly fair to him when the contract he got was offered to him, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Guy3Cups Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 You two both make good points.. Like I said before he shouldn't be in 56th in points minus the time he has been out or not. No excuse is good enough.. Step up or step out Kovy. I listed all our UFAs before .. Our team will be very different next year.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Well, I'll call deboer. We've figured out how to get Kovy more points. He just has to "step up". If only we'd known it was so simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Guy3Cups Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Thanks Devil Dan.. What a guy.. You can't argue with my point. No reason Elias has more points.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepperkorn Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Did you all start the weekend a little early? This has to be the beer posting... this thread keeps getting weirder and weirder. oh wait never mind -- I thought this was in the Kovy thread.. this one only just started getting in the crazy woowoo state... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slasher72 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 im on the fence here... i simply think that there's extremist people on both sides... on one hands you have the guys after a 10 games losing streak that will go "TRADE AWAY THE WHOLE TEAM, FIRE LOU, FIRE DEBOER, MOVE THE TEAM TO ALASKA!!!" and then you have the ones that will convinced themselves that it's simply a slump with no puck luck and that the team is fine (even though it may or not be) and i dont know why if someone pointing out bad things that he should be called out for jumping the ship, the team has quite a few problems this year and pointing them out is indeed realistic sometimes. When things go bad it's one thing to go crazy at the extreme but its another to close your eyes and denying it. but i mean... it's a fact that our #1center is under performing, our PP sucks, we're not scoring much, our goaltending has been below average mostly, our Ds even though they are keeping the shots low will mostly have an immense brain fart leaving a guy wide open on a side for an open net... those are facts and its frustrating but obviously we know the guys have it in them they did it last year they just have to get on the same page. This. It goes without saying that everyone here roots for this team through thick and thin and if we're at the games we scream our heads off for the Devs until we lose our voices. That being said, I think it's fine to complain when it's warranted and you shouldn't be called a fake fan or told to go root for another team. That type of knee-jerk response is childish and stupid. Marty has been great for this organization throughout his career and we likely never win any Cups without him. I remember the Craig Billington and Peter Sidorkiowicz days and they weren't too fun. Marty will always be the face of the organization just like Messier will likely always be the face of the Rangers organization. But if he doesn't play well next year, he should contemplate retirement and go out on top. As for Lou, he's a great GM and i'm very thankful he's running our organization. But if/when he sits on his hands too long or doles out bad contracts when he does act, or seems to have a man crush on ex-Devils players and signs them onboard despite their level of talent.. it gets annoying and he deserves to be criticized. The guy is not infallable. Same goes for any player on this team. If/when they suck, we have every right as fans to complain. That's how things improve anyway... if a product is substandard and people reject it, it improves. This organization is great and the fans are some of the most knowledgable. It's good to be part of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Thanks Devil Dan.. What a guy.. You can't argue with my point. No reason Elias has more points.. Well you seem to want the impossible. Elias has more points because be is one of the better passers in the league. He's the kind of guy who can play with anyone. Kovy needs more specific kinds of players. And as many said, Zajac is having a bad year and the other wing has been a revolving door. Kovy can't just invent offense. He'd have 90 goals a year if it was as simple "stepping up". He lead the team in playoff scoring with a busted back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1Guy3Cups Posted April 5, 2013 Author Share Posted April 5, 2013 Dan he clearly has been tentative with his shots this year.. Don't you agree that he should be making moves instead of trying to always set up for the one timers.. The revolving door of line changes ultimately has been the death of the team this year. I know Debor is attempting to find chemistry.. But it just hasn't , the lack of consistency is making it hard for lines to click.. I have to say this has a big affect on his overall points.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ELIAS6 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Dan he clearly has been tentative with his shots this year.. Don't you agree that he should be making moves instead of trying to always set up for the one timers.. The revolving door of line changes ultimately has been the death of the team this year. I know Debor is attempting to find chemistry.. But it just hasn't , the lack of consistency is making it hard for lines to click.. I have to say this has a big affect on his overall points.. i agree with this and feel the same way, its like once a line starts getting use to playing with one another before they can adjust together they are pulled apart and have to adjust to something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I don't give a fvck about his 3M cap hit, Lou should have traded for Jokinen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 No you put it quite clear. You said for the amount of money he is getting he should be making the players around him better. Not exactly fair to him when the contract he got was offered to him, not the other way around. I meant by that more that hes the top guy, hes the big player ( and his salary reflects that) he shouldnt rely on a 1.2m player or rookie to perform. Was Crosby's production up to kunitz and dupuis or the other way around. And actually the contract was offered to him? It didnt took like 2 months of negociating and the whole saga with threats of going to the KHL if he was not getting paid enough and rumours about him saying he wanted to be the best paid player in the league and all? Its all rumours but its a fact that he wanted to get paid the big bucks or else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Dan he clearly has been tentative with his shots this year.. Don't you agree that he should be making moves instead of trying to always set up for the one timers.. The revolving door of line changes ultimately has been the death of the team this year. I know Debor is attempting to find chemistry.. But it just hasn't , the lack of consistency is making it hard for lines to click.. I have to say this has a big affect on his overall points..I dont think its true cause well last season we switched up lines very often and even during the playoffs run. Kovy henrique poni was not a line at the start of the playoffs and they scored our biggest goal of the last 10 years maybe.And it was a strenght for our team cause anyone could play with anyone Edited April 6, 2013 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DevsMan84 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I meant by that more that hes the top guy, hes the big player ( and his salary reflects that) he shouldnt rely on a 1.2m player or rookie to perform. Was Crosby's production up to kunitz and dupuis or the other way around. And actually the contract was offered to him? It didnt took like 2 months of negociating and the whole saga with threats of going to the KHL if he was not getting paid enough and rumours about him saying he wanted to be the best paid player in the league and all? Its all rumours but its a fact that he wanted to get paid the big bucks or else... Lou never has to sign anyone and could have always told kovy to GTFO. You make it seem like kovy just short of extorted Lou into signing him which is completely silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Lou never has to sign anyone and could have always told kovy to GTFO. You make it seem like kovy just short of extorted Lou into signing him which is completely silly.I dont think Lou had much to do with it it was mostly JVB pulling the strings on that one.And stop exagerating what im saying and then say that its absurd and silly and wtv plz. "you make it sounds like this and that !!!" Dont put words in my mind i know what i said. Youll believe and take what i said the way you want to take it cause it clearly seem you have some grudge or wtv against me Edited April 6, 2013 by SterioDesign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devil Dan 56 Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I dont think Lou had much to do with it it was mostly JVB pulling the strings on that one. And stop exagerating what im saying and then say that its absurd and silly and wtv plz I've also always felt the signing was more Vanderbeek than Lou. It doesn't seem at all like Lou to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I've also always felt the signing was more Vanderbeek than Lou. It doesn't seem at all like Lou to do that. No. If it were up to Lou our first line would consist of barely qualified 3rd liners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I've also always felt the signing was more Vanderbeek than Lou. It doesn't seem at all like Lou to do that. My point is clearly not that Kovy extorded Lou or wtv like buddy is implying, thats exagerating what i said to the extreme lol but its really not as if kovy was simply "offered that contract" and that he signed it ala Gomez who got a crazy ammount of money thrown at him, Kovy cleeeeaaaarrrrllllyyyy wanted to get paid as a top top top player and went for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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