Elias about Lou's free agents approach

[Muevelos]

Take out elias is dumb sorry and zubrus is a for checking force. Those two stay. You have a young team no veterans is dumb look at Edmonton they have all that offense and no veteran like elias. You need that presence amongst your young dudes. Elias and zubs stay. Rest don't matter

[ATLL765]

Why isn't John MacLean then?

 

 

ATLL - I'm not sure what you thought I was writing.  I used the word loyal once.  I suppose you just pointed out how I'm not really "loyal" more a fan of consistency.  I'd find it consistent of Lou to not negotiate and I'd accept that.  Many people have told me recently that I am bizarrely confident though.  Maybe you can tell me that I am not actually confident rather just complacent though 

 

Everyone says only Marty got a contract prior to becoming a free agent - but so has Stevens, White, Madden...   so I guess I woudl wonder what they did to get contracts during the season.    I dont know -- I just know it doesn't and wouldn't bother me. I have better things to do that worry about my own monetary value.  I dont think I'd want to name my own years to start off anyhow.  Look at what a position Marty is in.  I dont knwo why he'd want to keep on playing if it was sub-par

 

I dont know -= who cares?

It wasn't anything to do with. Just how I feel the team and it's players shouldn't be loyal to each other because I feel that loyalty is a detriment to the greater good.

[capo]

It wasn't anything to do with. Just how I feel the team and it's players shouldn't be loyal to each other because I feel that loyalty is a detriment to the greater good.

Loyalty is where the passion comes from.  Talent alone doesn't get you to where need to go.  Take life in war for the best example.  If you don't give a sh!t about the guy next to you eventually you both die.  Dysfunction leads to calamity.  The Devils are good at covering up dysfunction.  Check that, Lou is good at covering up dysfunction. (no twitter)  Before this season started there were signs that Elias wasn't thrilled with everything in Devilland. It's not going to be a huge shocker if he leaves.

[CarpathianForest]

It wasn't anything to do with. Just how I feel the team and it's players shouldn't be loyal to each other because I feel that loyalty is a detriment to the greater good.

 

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.”

[SterioDesign]

Loyalty is where the passion comes from.  Talent alone doesn't get you to where need to go.  Take life in war for the best example.  If you don't give a sh!t about the guy next to you eventually you both die.  Dysfunction leads to calamity.  The Devils are good at covering up dysfunction.  Check that, Lou is good at covering up dysfunction. (no twitter)  Before this season started there were signs that Elias wasn't thrilled with everything in Devilland. It's not going to be a huge shocker if he leaves.

 

if Elias leave we'll go through the same thing... Lou will be a major reason that we lost him, yet folks here will deny it and bash the people pointing it out as if Lou sh!ts gold.

[Devil Dan 56]

if Elias leave we'll go through the same thing... Lou will be a major reason that we lost him, yet folks here will deny it and bash the people pointing it out as if Lou sh!ts gold.

If Elias wants to be a devil, he will be. Lou wants players that want to be here. If Elias decides to leave basically out of spite, that's on him.

Lou isn't the kind of GM to pander to players. Good thing, too, because Elias and Clarkson's values were much higher a few months ago.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Devil Dan 56

[DH26]

if Elias leave we'll go through the same thing... Lou will be a major reason that we lost him, yet folks here will deny it and bash the people pointing it out as if Lou sh!ts gold.

 

Lou got him to stay once even when he was in much higher demand than he will be this summer. If he leaves, it's because the Devils don't give him as much as another team, and if that's the case, we probably don't need that money on the books 

[jerseysteve]

I don't understand why everyone is getting so worked up about this.  This is an organizational philosophy and always has been.  Despite losing some quality names, we always seem to be able to restock and WIN.  I don't give a damn about all the big name the Rags sign.  How many times have they won?  At least with the Devils, we as fans, can expect a quality team on the ice year after year. 

[sundstrom]

look - elias is my favorite devil ever but to think that he stayed on his last contract out of loyalty is missing the point. He got offered 7/42 from NJ. He got offered 6/42 from the Rangers. The Devils gave him the NMC that the Rangers wouldn't. He stayed.

 

when his career is over in 3-4 years, he'll go back to Czech. This is not someone who will be in the US for years after retirement. i think that it means something to be in NJ for his entire career and that's absolutely his preference. i don't expect him to get more than a 2 year offer from other teams but he most certainly will get those.

 

in the end, i think lou gives him 3/15 and he stays.

[SterioDesign]

If Elias wants to be a devil, he will be. Lou wants players that want to be here. If Elias decides to leave basically out of spite, that's on him.

Lou isn't the kind of GM to pander to players. Good thing, too, because Elias and Clarkson's values were much higher a few months ago.

 

lol come on. "Lou wants players that want to be here" are you gonna sing kumbaya next? 

 

it's a business and you can't let go your assets just cause "oh well he didnt want to be here" thats absolutely ridiculous. You have to make them want to stay and the way he's handling things is certainly not the way to do it. I know Lou is that way but it's a dumb way to deal with stuff. 

Edited April 13, 2013 by SterioDesign

[Devil Dan 56]

lol come on. "Lou wants players that want to be here" are you gonna sing kumbaya next?

it's a business and you can't let go your assets just cause "oh well he didnt want to be here" thats absolutely ridiculous. You have to make them want to stay and the way he's handling things is certainly not the way to do it. I know Lou is that way but it's a dumb way to deal with stuff.

He does want players that want to be Devils. He's said it, and he's gotten rid of players who want out. Lou doesn't build a team by just looking for stats. He wants certain players. That's why he doesn't 'just sign Semin' or any other of those oversimplified ideas.

I feel that throwing contracts around too early is a dumb way to deal with it. Elias will be 37, Clarkson has plummeted to earth, and Parise was coming off of a knee injury that cost him a season and he was looking for a huge decade long contract. It's not as black and white as you make it. There's millions of dollars involved.

Lou has had his job a long time because he doesn't make knee jerk decisions. He's very calm and calculated. He more than anyone else runs it as a business. It would seem that Elias, who has been in the organization nearly 20 years, is the one not treating it like a business. Looks like he's panicking about getting a contract a little.

[NJDevs4978]

I seriously doubt Elias is 'panicking'.  He'll get fair market value in the offseason.  People are really overselling how much Elias's slump is going to affect his market value, he's Patrik Elias - one year removed from a great season.  And 31 points with a +6 in 41 games is hardly a bad year.  That's a 60-point full season.  Someone with cap space will throw around top dollar for the most proven UFA on the market.  Freaking Shane Doan got a 4-30 offer last offseason.

 

Maybe as someone else pointed out there's a little bit of jealousy that Zajac did get the deal before FA and he's underperformed for the second time in three seasons (both without Parise).  Or Elias just doesn't want to be tempted by other offers the way he was last time.  Or his idiot agent is in his ear too much...that's my biggest worry vis-a-vis Elias re-signing.

 

 

look - elias is my favorite devil ever but to think that he stayed on his last contract out of loyalty is missing the point. He got offered 7/42 from NJ. He got offered 6/42 from the Rangers. The Devils gave him the NMC that the Rangers wouldn't. He stayed.

 

when his career is over in 3-4 years, he'll go back to Czech. This is not someone who will be in the US for years after retirement. i think that it means something to be in NJ for his entire career and that's absolutely his preference. i don't expect him to get more than a 2 year offer from other teams but he most certainly will get those.

 

in the end, i think lou gives him 3/15 and he stays.

 

I dunno, I think he's too prideful for a paycut given he's still at a relatively high level.  What'll probably wind up happening is Lou offers him two years, Elias says he wants three and gets it through FA and Lou has to match.  Likely at best a 3/18, and the outside offers'll probably be higher than that.  Just like what happened last offseason with Marty/Salvador/Moose.  

Edited April 13, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[Devil Dan 56]

I seriously doubt Elias is 'panicking'.  He'll get fair market value in the offseason.  People are really overselling how much Elias's slump is going to affect his market value, he's Patrik Elias - one year removed from a great season.  And 31 points with a +6 in 41 games is hardly a bad year.  That's a 60-point full season.  Someone with cap space will throw around top dollar for the most proven UFA on the market.  Freaking Shane Doan got a 4-30 offer last offseason.

 

Maybe as someone else pointed out there's a little bit of jealousy that Zajac did get the deal before FA and he's underperformed for the second time in three seasons (both without Parise).  Or Elias just doesn't want to be tempted by other offers the way he was last time.  Or his idiot agent is in his ear too much...that's my biggest worry vis-a-vis Elias re-signing.

 

 

 

I dunno, I think he's too prideful for a paycut given he's still at a relatively high level.  What'll probably wind up happening is Lou offers him two years, Elias says he wants three and gets it through FA and Lou has to match.  Likely at best a 3/18, and the outside offers'll probably be higher than that.  Just like what happened last offseason with Marty/Salvador/Moose.  

 

Maybe panicking isn't the right word. Politicking? Trying to create some pressure? He's been around forever. He knows the strategy and he knows he won't be able to change it. He's making a little noise.

[NJDevs4978]

Maybe panicking isn't the right word. Politicking? Trying to create some pressure? He's been around forever. He knows the strategy and he knows he won't be able to change it. He's making a little noise.

 

That I'll buy.  Especially given who his agent is.

[ATLL765]

Loyalty is where the passion comes from.  Talent alone doesn't get you to where need to go.  Take life in war for the best example.  If you don't give a sh!t about the guy next to you eventually you both die.  Dysfunction leads to calamity.  The Devils are good at covering up dysfunction.  Check that, Lou is good at covering up dysfunction. (no twitter)  Before this season started there were signs that Elias wasn't thrilled with everything in Devilland. It's not going to be a huge shocker if he leaves.

It can't just be loyalty though. Loyalty muddles the mind. It makes you want to do things for people you wouldn't otherwise do. If there's no loyalty from Lou, Sal doesn't get a contract this season. That's a positive. And don't fight just for the guy next to you because you're loyal, he's also got a gun and two is better than one.

This is also more of an overall life philosophy than just what I apply to hockey, but I still stand by it. Loyalty is a detriment.

Edited April 14, 2013 by ATLL765

[capo]

It can't just be loyalty though. Loyalty muddles the mind. It makes you want to do things for people you wouldn't otherwise do. If there's no loyalty from Lou, Sal doesn't get a contract this season. That's a positive. And don't fight just for the guy next to you because you're loyal, he's also got a gun and two is better than one.

This is also more of an overall life philosophy than just what I apply to hockey, but I still stand by it. Loyalty is a detriment.

If you don't practice loyalty in some regard it will come back and bite you.  You should always take care of those who take care of you. If management doesn't take care of it's players you're not going to get the ones you want to come and play for you.  Perhaps, there is some of that going around already and that's why we have some of these bad contracts?

[NJDevs4978]

If you don't practice loyalty in some regard it will come back and bite you.  You should always take care of those who take care of you. If management doesn't take care of it's players you're not going to get the ones you want to come and play for you.  Perhaps, there is some of that going around already and that's why we have some of these bad contracts?

 

Yeah you don't get Andy Greene taking less money to re-sign with the Devils or Gionta/Carter/Bernier coming back on the cheap before testing UFA without the 'other' side of loyalty fans always harp on (the bad contracts to guys who've proven themselves here).  Not to mention Marty himself taking less money for years and years.

Edited April 14, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[ATLL765]

If you don't practice loyalty in some regard it will come back and bite you.  You should always take care of those who take care of you. If management doesn't take care of it's players you're not going to get the ones you want to come and play for you.  Perhaps, there is some of that going around already and that's why we have some of these bad contracts?

There's a difference between not being loyal and being a dick. The idea is that you don't compromise the greater good for the sake of one, just due to loyalty. You do not hamper the team just to be loyal to a player, see: Sal's contract, Pando's last contract.

Those are mistakes due to loyalty that had Lou just told them to screw, we'd be better off. I'm not saying the team shouldn't treat players well, I'm just saying when it comes down to being loyal to one over bettering the team, that's where I draw the line.

A real life example is your best friend asks you to do help him cover up something he did, that you are opposed to due to whatever reasons, do you help him and compromise yourself? Or tell him no and compromise your loyalty? This is my question here.

Clarkson asks for $6M because he was underpaid last year, do you give it to him out of loyalty? fvck no.

[NJDevs4978]

How is Sal's contract hampering the team?  People make too much about the contract (especially in a year where we're at least $11 million under the celing), if anything it's the fact he was given the C that's hampering the team.  He's making $3.1 million on a $70 million cap, that's 'less' than 1/20 of this year's cap.  That's even slightly less than 1/20 of next year's cap.

 

Pando's contract was far worse if only because Lou didn't 'need' to give it to him, and we were a cap team at the time so we needed to buy out Pando's deal just to get under the summer cap during the Kovy/Volch/Tallinder FA year.  Other teams were willing to give the same deal to Sal in FA.  People act like Lou vastly overpaid, he didn't overpay given the market.  If that was a loyalty contract, what was other teams' similar offer, mass stupidity?

Edited April 14, 2013 by NJDevs4978

[DH26]

How is Sal's contract hampering the team?  People make too much about the contract (especially in a year where we're at least $11 million under the celing), if anything it's the fact he was given the C that's hampering the team.  He's making $3.1 million on a $70 million cap, that's 'less' than 1/20 of this year's cap.  That's even slightly less than 1/20 of next year's cap.

 

Pando's contract was far worse if only because Lou didn't 'need' to give it to him, and we were a cap team at the time so we needed to buy out Pando's deal just to get under the summer cap during the Kovy/Volch/Tallinder FA year.  Other teams were willing to give the same deal to Sal in FA.  People act like Lou vastly overpaid, he didn't overpay given the market.  If that was a loyalty contract, what was other teams' similar offer, mass stupidity?

 

It's hampering the team if they have an internal cap which they probably do. If he was worth 3.1m fine but he's worth about 500K 

[sundstrom]

How is Sal's contract hampering the team?  People make too much about the contract (especially in a year where we're at least $11 million under the celing), if anything it's the fact he was given the C that's hampering the team.  He's making $3.1 million on a $70 million cap, that's 'less' than 1/20 of this year's cap.  That's even slightly less than 1/20 of next year's cap.

 

Pando's contract was far worse if only because Lou didn't 'need' to give it to him, and we were a cap team at the time so we needed to buy out Pando's deal just to get under the summer cap during the Kovy/Volch/Tallinder FA year.  Other teams were willing to give the same deal to Sal in FA.  People act like Lou vastly overpaid, he didn't overpay given the market.  If that was a loyalty contract, what was other teams' similar offer, mass stupidity?

 

1) they DO have an internal cap as what noted above.

2) by giving him 3 years and clogging the d roster, it creates a blockage for ascension by better players.

[ATLL765]

How is Sal's contract hampering the team?  People make too much about the contract (especially in a year where we're at least $11 million under the celing), if anything it's the fact he was given the C that's hampering the team.  He's making $3.1 million on a $70 million cap, that's 'less' than 1/20 of this year's cap.  That's even slightly less than 1/20 of next year's cap.

 

Pando's contract was far worse if only because Lou didn't 'need' to give it to him, and we were a cap team at the time so we needed to buy out Pando's deal just to get under the summer cap during the Kovy/Volch/Tallinder FA year.  Other teams were willing to give the same deal to Sal in FA.  People act like Lou vastly overpaid, he didn't overpay given the market.  If that was a loyalty contract, what was other teams' similar offer, mass stupidity?

If I jump off a bridge, will you too, since it must be a good idea, I'm doing, right?

Just because other teams are stupid, doesn't excuse stupidity.

Edited April 14, 2013 by ATLL765

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I hope Elias stays in Jersey.  Given Lou's track record of overpaying veteran players at the tail end of their careers, I'd be shocked if it didn't happen.

 

Elias wants job security and is complaining that Lou didn't offer him a contract at the peak of his performance this season like other GMs often do with their own players.  He's just venting.  That lack of job security is part of the frustration that comes with being an NHL hockey player. I don't read anything into it.

Edited April 14, 2013 by halfsharkalligatorhalfman

[NJDevs4978]

1) they DO have an internal cap as what noted above.

2) by giving him 3 years and clogging the d roster, it creates a blockage for ascension by better players.

How on earth do we know if they have an internal cap or what it is? They supposedly had a reasonable offer to Zach. There was literally nothing else to spend it on once Zach left other than Semin, who few teams wanted. They added about a couple million in payroll during the season.

And yes the roster spot Sal takes up is a problem but he doesn't even have the worst defensive contract on the team. They could have dealt another d-man if they wanted to but no, Lou wanted to roll with eight.

[ATLL765]

How on earth do we know if they have an internal cap or what it is? They supposedly had a reasonable offer to Zach. There was literally nothing else to spend it on once Zach left other than Semin, who few teams wanted. They added about a couple million in payroll during the season.

And yes the roster spot Sal takes up is a problem but he doesn't even have the worst defensive contract on the team. They could have dealt another d-man if they wanted to but no, Lou wanted to roll with eight.

You used some terrible logic there. We don't know if they have an internal cap, but you go on to tell us they could have dealt a d-man? Were you on the phones? Did you hear the offers? Oh, you didn't. How interesting.

If I was any other team, the only two people on the D that I want and think I can get are Fayne and Tallinder. I don't want Sal, Volch and it would appear Greene is our best D on a good contract, Larsson is untouchable, barring Pitt offering Crosby, and Zid gives us something none of our other D does. So, I don't see why we would have traded Sal or Volch for dirt, if anyone even offered that.

Edited April 14, 2013 by ATLL765