maxpower Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 The league has already approved Pronger's contract so it's a completely different situation. I believe you can't buy out injured players. They approved the deal because Holmgren gave himself a cap penalty through stupidity. Now happenstance got him out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 All NHL contracts have always been guaranteed for players injured during play - what you'd be doing is forcing Pronger to give that up. It's not cap circumvention. It kind of is since if he retired the Flyers would be stuck with the dead cap number, but since he's technically not retired they can hide his cap number on LTIR forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldply123 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Isn't Lecavalier a Center? I wonder if they'll move Schenn to wing and look to deal off Talbot. Doubt they make any big trades but who knows with Holmgren. Their defense is still a mess and their goalie situation is terrible. Looks like Vinny took the retirement deal. Not sure this a good move for either player or team, but I doubt Laviolette will last the full season so might take a bit more time to judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 Isn't Lecavalier a Center? I wonder if they'll move Schenn to wing and look to deal off Talbot. Doubt they make any big trades but who knows with Holmgren. Their defense is still a mess and their goalie situation is terrible. Looks like Vinny took the retirement deal. Not sure this a good move for either player or team, but I doubt Laviolette will last the full season so might take a bit more time to judge. If they move Talbot, Lou should work behind the scenes to get him from the recipient of that deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted July 2, 2013 Share Posted July 2, 2013 It kind of is since if he retired the Flyers would be stuck with the dead cap number, but since he's technically not retired they can hide his cap number on LTIR forever. It's not totally hidden though, it still counts towards the offseason and opening day cap number. This is just one of those odd situations that happens. If Pronger wasn't an over 35 contract would people care that much that he hadn't retired? In that case it would be hurting the Flyers much more that he wouldn't retire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Why would pronger retire? Why give up the money? He was injured during play. He should get all of that money and the Flyers should be able to LTIR it. I have no problem with how this turned out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Why would pronger retire? Why give up the money? He was injured during play. He should get all of that money and the Flyers should be able to LTIR it. I have no problem with how this turned out. So, you think he was hanging around for league minimum in 2016 when he's 42 years old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Leeds Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Failyers will be hating the Vinny deal in about 2 years..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 So, you think he was hanging around for league minimum in 2016 when he's 42 years old? What difference does that make to what's going on right now? How does that get into the league should force retirement on players for injuries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 What difference does that make to what's going on right now? How does that get into the league should force retirement on players for injuries? I'm using the logic they used in arbitration. What's the % of defensemen that played a 42 year old season? He's getting up around retirement age already. Forcing him out (at least when the money runs out after the 14-15 season) seems pretty logical to me. Are they going to keep him hidden in a dark room until July 1, 2017? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 (edited) I'm using the logic they used in arbitration. What's the % of defensemen that played a 42 year old season? He's getting up around retirement age already. Forcing him out (at least when the money runs out after the 14-15 season) seems pretty logical to me. Are they going to keep him hidden in a dark room until July 1, 2017? Again, the contract was registered with the league, it's preposterous to call it cap circumvention - a player on IR is eligible to collect the remainder of his contract so long as he is injured doing hockey activities. How long the contract goes or how much it pays in each year is totally irrelevant. Given that Pronger got hurt during the meat of the contract and this isn't a drummed up injury, it's even more silly. Edited July 3, 2013 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Again, the contract was registered with the league, it's preposterous to call it cap circumvention - a player on IR is eligible to collect the remainder of his contract so long as he is injured doing hockey activities. How long the contract goes or how much it pays in each year is totally irrelevant. Given that Pronger got hurt during the meat of the contract and this isn't a drummed up injury, it's even more silly. I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention. If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water. So he can't fly back from Russia. LTIR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention. If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water. So he can't fly back from Russia. LTIR. There is no dog and pony show. He's hurt and can't play hockey. It's very straightforward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I'm not calling the contract cap circumvention, the dog and pony show is the cap circumvention. If that's how they want it, fine, when it comes time for Kovy to retire, he comes down with a crippling fear of water. So he can't fly back from Russia. LTIR. Ya, that's what people complained about the Devils doing with Mogilny and it was allowed then. There isn't really a dog and pony show, the guy is hurt, it's real, and so this is how the rules are followed. Mogilny was a much more likely fakeout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Eco Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Failyers will be hating the Vinny deal in about 2 years 10 months..... Fixed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDEVS1730 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Doesn't Vinny have to wait until tomorrow to field offers or is it because he was bought out he can field offers now? Did he even clear waivers yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MantaRay Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 He is not a UFA he is an unsigned player, so no need for team deadline. Good signing for us. Vinny sucks, very happy he signed with the Phailures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Good deal for the Flyers (a bit lengthy, yes, but with free agency something's gotta give), but at the same time might be good for other teams, too. Should be tougher for guys like Clarkson to demand big buck with Lecavalier making 4.5M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarpathianForest Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Good deal for the Flyers (a bit lengthy, yes, but with free agency something's gotta give), but at the same time might be good for other teams, too. Should be tougher for guys like Clarkson to demand big buck with Lecavalier making 4.5M. Yeahhhh....no. Vinny signing has no effect on Clarkson. Vinny was bought out, and is being paid by Tampa so he can take a discount. Clarkson is younger and provides totally different services on the ice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I heard a flyer fan into the radio today. The guy guaranteed Vinny with 70+ points this next year and guaranteed that Holmgren is not done. He mentioned using either Cotourier, Coburn, or Read to get one of Bobby Ryan or Yandle. Typically overconfident but I hope to god he's wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundstrom Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 I heard a flyer fan into the radio today. The guy guaranteed Vinny with 70+ points this next year and guaranteed that Holmgren is not done. He mentioned using either Cotourier, Coburn, or Read to get one of Bobby Ryan or Yandle. Typically overconfident but I hope to god he's wrong i'd love if they punt on couturier who will be a very good player. yandle is real tough for the flyers because they can't afford him. he's more expensive than coburn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgb6397 Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Failyers will be hating the Vinny deal in about 2 years..... Anyone know how the fans like the deal? Are they predicting championship or bellyaching about the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onddeck Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Anyone know how the fans like the deal? Are they predicting championship or bellyaching about the money?i live in Philly and was listening to their radio in the car. Probably 70% like the deal, read what I posted above for one specific instance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muevelos Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 i'd love if they punt on couturier who will be a very good player. yandle is real tough for the flyers because they can't afford him. he's more expensive than coburn.hope to god no.. Yandle is one of the better and worth it dmen in the league.. I would be sad if he became a flyer.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Posted July 3, 2013 Share Posted July 3, 2013 Yeahhhh....no. Vinny signing has no effect on Clarkson. Vinny was bought out, and is being paid by Tampa so he can take a discount. Clarkson is younger and provides totally different services on the ice. Which works even worse for Clarkson. If Lecavalier gets 4.5M for scoring (and even in Clarkson's wonderful 2011/12 season Vinny had more points in less games) and is a proven star who won in this league, then it's hard to justify Clarkie making more than him for what he brings, even if he's younger (and he's not THAT much younger either, I actually thought there was a bigger difference between them before I checked and learned it's four years). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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