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Your thought on today / about the team so far ?


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1) Kovalchuk's biggest fault while he was here was that he was too unselfish and didn't shoot the puck more often. 2) The Devils lost 10 in a row without Kovalchuk. 3) The great Patrik Elias had 1 g

I mean, there's really not a dumber thing you could say then 'Kovalchuk leads in giveaways because he tries to do everything himself'.  Most giveaways are passes, which is why someone like Joe Thornto

Coming from the guy who makes it his mission to get under people's skin... Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Yup that's right. It's idle speculation on a messageboard.

Get over yourselves.

You didn't phrase it like it was speculation though. You said it like you knew it, when it's clear you don't KNOW that. You're guessing that they don't look at shots per game. Why you think they wouldn't is beyond me. You don't think Clarky was helped in getting his contract by the number of shots he takes?

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You didn't phrase it like it was speculation though. You said it like you knew it, when it's clear you don't KNOW that. You're guessing that they don't look at shots per game. Why you think they wouldn't is beyond me. You don't think Clarky was helped in getting his contract by the number of shots he takes?

 

I never said any such thing.  I said it "might" be the case.  I never claimed to have any sort of inside knowledge or that I'm in good with the CAA security guard.

 

And I think Clarkson got the deal he did because he was a 30 goal scorer and based on his "intangibles" or "grit".  You can say that the former is primarily based on the amount of shots he took, I just think that your typical GM, or perhaps agent, will look at goals and assists when it comes to contract negotiations. 

 

Ryan O'Reilly got 2 years $10 million on an offer sheet at the same stage of his career as Henrique is at now and with similar stats that Henrique has had.  It isn't that implausible that Henrique's agent is hanging on to the possibility that Henrique could get something like that.

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I never said any such thing.  I said it "might" be the case.  I never claimed to have any sort of inside knowledge or that I'm in good with the CAA security guard.

 

And I think Clarkson got the deal he did because he was a 30 goal scorer and based on his "intangibles" or "grit".  You can say that the former is primarily based on the amount of shots he took, I just think that your typical GM, or perhaps agent, will look at goals and assists when it comes to contract negotiations. 

 

Ryan O'Reilly got 2 years $10 million on an offer sheet at the same stage of his career as Henrique is at now and with similar stats that Henrique has had.  It isn't that implausible that Henrique's agent is hanging on to the possibility that Henrique could get something like that.

ROR got an offer sheet from Calgary. If LL follows Calgary's lead, we're in deep sh!t. Also, he's played over double the NHL games that Henrique has, thus has proven his worth more so then Henrique has. Many say a forward peaks in his 3rd year. ROR is at that point of his career where he should be hitting his peak. Henrique hasn't gotten there yet, so his peak is an unknown quantity compared to ROR.

Landeskog is a better comparison, but he's taken twice as many shots as Henrique has, so it's far more likely that he will maintain that pace, if not better it, especially given that he shot something like 8%. Henrique shot 12% in his rookie year, then bettered that last year with 14%. I'd wager he won't shoot that well his whole career. If I'm wrong, he's WAYYYY better than anyone here thinks.

Also, you never said "might". You said, "most GMs do not look at shots per game".

 

First, most GMs do not look at shots per game when it comes to these kinds of things, I can't speak for Lou though.

Second, I am not saying that it would be a fair deal. I'm only suggesting that's what his agent might be asking for. We're running out of reasons for why a deal hasn't been announced yet, if Henrique's agent is in fact being reasonable.

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Also, you never said "might". You said, "most GMs do not look at shots per game".

 

 I said Henrique's camp "might" be trying to get a Landeskog type deal, or, if it makes you feel better, a deal that is much more lucrative than a lot of us here believe he is worth or would otherwise expect him to accept, at least until he starts missing paychecks because of a hold out.  I think this is plausible because the season is fast approaching, someone with similar stats just got a huge deal, and the ownership situation, to the extent it had any relevance at all, has been worked out.  Yes, Lou could be low balling him too, who knows.

 

Tri argued that the very idea was ludicrous because of Henrique's shot totals.  If it makes you feel better, I should have said that "it appears to me" (or some kind of qualifier) that GMs and agents still tend to look at the traditional goals/assists than they do at shots when negotiating deals.  I have no direct knoweldge of how these negotiations tend to play out.  It's just an off-the-cuff observation.

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 I said Henrique's camp "might" be trying to get a Landeskog type deal, or, if it makes you feel better, a deal that is much more lucrative than a lot of us here believe he is worth or would otherwise expect him to accept, at least until he starts missing paychecks because of a hold out.  I think this is plausible because the season is fast approaching, someone with similar stats just got a huge deal, and the ownership situation, to the extent it had any relevance at all, has been worked out.  Yes, Lou could be low balling him too, who knows.

 

Tri argued that the very idea was ludicrous because of Henrique's shot totals.  If it makes you feel better, I should have said that "it appears to me" (or some kind of qualifier) that GMs and agents still tend to look at the traditional goals/assists than they do at shots when negotiating deals.  I have no direct knoweldge of how these negotiations tend to play out.  It's just an off-the-cuff observation.

 

I argued the idea was ludicrous for a myriad of reasons, one of which was the shot totals.  You argued definitively that GMs don't look at shot totals.  Shot totals tend to correlate with goal totals, btw.

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I argued the idea was ludicrous for a myriad of reasons, one of which was the shot totals.  You argued definitively that GMs don't look at shot totals.  Shot totals tend to correlate with goal totals, btw.

 

Sigh...

 

It's a messageboard, my apologies if I was not as precise as one would hope.  Neither you, nor I, have any idea how these negotiations go, or what stats a GM or agent finds or pretends to find persuasive, or the extent to which they do.  If you want to get hung up on syntax, more power to you.  So whether shot totals objectively correlate with goals scored is besides the point, and I didn't really dispute the concept anyway. 

 

The only other reason you said the idea was ludicrous was that Landeskog was younger, by a whopping 2 and half years.  Otherwise you just said he was "better", which of course begs the question, at least if what we're speculating about are contract demands.  I don't disagree with that by the way, but again, it's besides the point.

 

While I don't recall what your thoughts were at the time, Lou gave Clarkson a deal that many of us thought was ludicrous, and at a time when there was a serious cap crunch.  I don't think it's that unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp might be overplaying its hand. 

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I don't think it's that unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp might be overplaying its hand.

Based on what Lou, Henrique, and his agent have said I still think its most likely the numbers are basically settled and both Lou and Agent are just waiting for Adam to decide whether long or short term fit him better.

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Based on what Lou, Henrique, and his agent have said I still think its most likely the numbers are basically settled and both Lou and Agent are just waiting for Adam to decide whether long or short term fit him better.

 

Seems like a long time to make up one's mind, since those statements were made almost a month ago.  But I agree, there's no rush at the moment, and this could be much ado about nothing.

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Sigh...

 

It's a messageboard, my apologies if I was not as precise as one would hope.  Neither you, nor I, have any idea how these negotiations go, or what stats a GM or agent finds or pretends to find persuasive, or the extent to which they do.  If you want to get hung up on syntax, more power to you.  So whether shot totals objectively correlate with goals scored is besides the point, and I didn't really dispute the concept anyway. 

 

The only other reason you said the idea was ludicrous was that Landeskog was younger, by a whopping 2 and half years.  Otherwise you just said he was "better", which of course begs the question, at least if what we're speculating about are contract demands.  I don't disagree with that by the way, but again, it's besides the point.

 

While I don't recall what your thoughts were at the time, Lou gave Clarkson a deal that many of us thought was ludicrous, and at a time when there was a serious cap crunch.  I don't think it's that unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp might be overplaying its hand. 

 

My thoughts at the time were I was on vacation and I don't think I ever posted about them during the off-season, but A: there wasn't a serious cap crunch when that contract was signed and B: Clarkson was arbtiration-eligible.  That contract paid off in spades, fwiw.

Edited by Triumph
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Sigh...

 

It's a messageboard, my apologies if I was not as precise as one would hope.  Neither you, nor I, have any idea how these negotiations go, or what stats a GM or agent finds or pretends to find persuasive, or the extent to which they do.  If you want to get hung up on syntax, more power to you.  So whether shot totals objectively correlate with goals scored is besides the point, and I didn't really dispute the concept anyway. 

 

The only other reason you said the idea was ludicrous was that Landeskog was younger, by a whopping 2 and half years.  Otherwise you just said he was "better", which of course begs the question, at least if what we're speculating about are contract demands.  I don't disagree with that by the way, but again, it's besides the point.

 

While I don't recall what your thoughts were at the time, Lou gave Clarkson a deal that many of us thought was ludicrous, and at a time when there was a serious cap crunch.  I don't think it's that unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp might be overplaying its hand. 

 

Daniel

 

You need to chill out you are attacking everyone on every subject. Take a pill.

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Daniel

You need to chill out you are attacking everyone on every subject. Take a pill.

Uhh, I made a fairly innocuous point which wa clearly idle speculation and got attacked for it. I responded, and got exasperated when people continued to take what I said completely out of context.

To quote Walter, I'm perfectly calm dude,

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Uhh, I made a fairly innocuous point which wa clearly idle speculation and got attacked for it. I responded, and got exasperated when people continued to take what I said completely out of context.

To quote Walter, I'm perfectly calm dude,

It has happened more than once. Take two pills. Chill Out

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Just learning from you

 

See what I mean...

 

And Tri, Clarkson signed his extension on June 30, which was one day before the start of free agency.  It's a safe assumption that Lou knew what he would have had to pay for Tallinder and Volchenkov, and that there was going to be a push to sign Kovalchuk, and thus had an idea of what the cap situation would look like, or at least he should have.  I guess you could say that it was fair for him to expect that the original Kovalchuk deal with the smaller cap hit would have been approved though, but who knows.

 

Also, for the purposes of what we're talking about, it doesn't matter that Clarkson exceeded expectations (although I'll agree that arbitration affects the analysis).  Henrique might exceed expectations as well, the issue is whether it's fair to speculate that Henrique's camp thinks he can get more than everyone here is expecting. 

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See what I mean...

 

And Tri, Clarkson signed his extension on June 30, which was one day before the start of free agency.  It's a safe assumption that Lou knew what he would have had to pay for Tallinder and Volchenkov, and that there was going to be a push to sign Kovalchuk, and thus had an idea of what the cap situation would look like, or at least he should have.  I guess you could say that it was fair for him to expect that the original Kovalchuk deal with the smaller cap hit would have been approved though, but who knows.

 

Also, for the purposes of what we're talking about, it doesn't matter that Clarkson exceeded expectations (although I'll agree that arbitration affects the analysis).  Henrique might exceed expectations as well, the issue is whether it's fair to speculate that Henrique's camp thinks he can get more than everyone here is expecting. 

 

How do you know or speculate what anyone is thinking or either side of the Henrique signing? Henrique said it would get done and Lou said he is working on it.

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How do you know or speculate what anyone is thinking or either side of the Henrique signing? Henrique said it would get done and Lou said he is working on it.

 

I speculate, because on a hockey message board during the summer, it's fun to speculate.  That's what speculation is.

 

The basis of my speculation is that those comments were made more than a month ago, which seems like a long time to get a deal done, if both sides are seeing eye-to-eye.  In the meantime, you have a player in Landeskog, with at least superficially similar stats, getting a $36 million deal.  While even the most pigheaded and delusional agent wouldn't even pretend that Henrique should get that deal, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp thinks he can get signficantly more money than a lot of us are expecting. 

 

And buddy, your sole purpose on this board is to get under people's skin.  You're our version of Sean Avery.  In fact, it's been your MO since you were Get Real.

Edited by Daniel
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I speculate, because on a hockey message board during the summer, it's fun to speculate.  That's what speculation is.

 

The basis of my speculation is that those comments were made more than a month ago, which seems like a long time to get a deal done, if both sides are seeing eye-to-eye.  In the meantime, you have a player in Landeskog, with at least superficially similar stats, getting a $36 million deal.  While even the most pigheaded and delusional agent wouldn't even pretend that Henrique should get that deal, it's not unreasonable to speculate that Henrique's camp thinks he can get signficantly more money than a lot of us are expecting. 

 

And buddy, your sole purpose on this board is to get under people's skin.  You're our version of Sean Avery.  In fact, it's been your MO since you were Get Real.

 

If I bother you so much why do you reply to me. You seem like a know it all kid. Did you make the rules for summer speculation? BTW if I want to get under your skin you have seen nothing yet. You could heed the advise..."Get Real" But you are doing a good job of arguing with everyone all summer that doesn't agree with you.

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If I bother you so much why do you reply to me. You seem like a know it all kid. Did you make the rules for summer speculation? BTW if I want to get under your skin you have seen nothing yet. You could heed the advise..."Get Real" But you are doing a good job of arguing with everyone all summer that doesn't agree with you.

 

Glass houses, stones, and all.

 

First time I've heard that I might be in violation of any rules.  In any event, a topic of discussion is what Henrique's deal, and what the hold-up was.  I added my two cents.  People disagreed, and I responded. 

 

I find it a little more interesting than random posts that say "Marty sucks", "Lou's too old". 

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