GDT Devils @ Coyotes 8pm EST

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

Of course there is a chance. There is an equal chance they finish terribly. Their goal differential is not a big deal. This team has to live and die by playing close games. It's one of the only things Deboer has designed properly in fixing the defensive system which was so horrid at times last year. He knows this team can't play open or overly aggressive.

 

I know you're in full-on negative mode, but I don't think there's that great a chance of them "finishing terribly" (by that I'm assuming you mean a collapse).  I think at worst, they continue to play around the pace they've played at for the season (admittedly, that won't get them into the playoffs).  The only way I think they could possibly finish terribly is if the goaltending just completely falls apart.  Schneider is not going to do that.   

[coldply123]

I know you're in full-on negative mode, but I don't think there's that great a chance of them "finishing terribly" (by that I'm assuming you mean a collapse). I think at worst, they continue to play around the pace they've played at for the season (admittedly, that won't get them into the playoffs). The only way I think they could possibly finish terribly is if the goaltending just completely falls apart. Schneider is not going to do that.

They are not going to finish with the record you posted either. I'd bet you a significant sum of money on that. If Jagr falls off and Brunner doesn't come back with some vengeance, this team won't score enough, period.

If I am negative it's probably a forceful reaction to some of the delusion I keep seeing from people on what this team is and the situation it's found itself in from a management perspective.

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

They are not going to finish with the record you posted either. I'd bet you a significant sum of money on that. If Jagr falls off and Brunner doesn't come back with some vengeance, this team won't score enough, period.

If I am negative it's probably a forceful reaction to some of the delusion I keep seeing from people on what this team is and the situation it's found itself in from a management perspective.

 

Pretty big difference between them finishing with a 17-8-7 record over their last 32 GP and completely falling to pieces.  If the Devils go 15-11-6 or thereabouts, that's not really sucking.  

 

I think they'll win at a better pace than they have on the season (for previously stated reasons...somewhat easier schedule, more home games, etc.).  Unfortunately, it has to be a lot better.  15-11-6 or so won't be good enough, more than likely.  I think they've got to get to 92+ points. 

[HellOnICE]

This team just upsets me. It's so frustrating to watch most nights. Brunner gets back, Boucher goes down. I want to see more speed somewhere. I don't care how they get it. We're dying for speed.

[NJDevs4978]

Dear lord. This team is just as capable of putting together winning streaks. Give them 6-2 in the SO rather than 0-8 and there you have your winning streaks. That 2011/2012 team had the fourth best record in the East. Guess where this team would be if they had that team's SO average? 4th in the East. 

 

These two teams aren't very different, period.

 

They've had one winning streak above two games in the last year plus...one.  And that was a three-game winning streak.  The '11-12 Devils had three 4/5-game non-shootout winning streaks in the second half of the season.  This team certainly hasn't proven capable of jack in terms of putting together a winning streak, especially with the shootout follies.

 

If you believe the bolded I have a bridge to sell you.  They're vastly different.  Only stronger goaltending the last month (ex. last night) has kept them afloat result-wise.  That team made acquisitions and trended upward during the season, this team's in hibernation when it comes to making moves and barely treading water.

 

I'm tired of hearing about the shootout being the cause of this team's ills...that's a copout.  Would it make things easier sure, but you're holding them to a high standard comparing them to a team that went 12-4 in the shootout. You can't expect 12-4 any more than you can expect 0-8.  And part of not being good in the shootout this year IS the overall lack of creativity and talent on offense.

 

Plus aside from all that, they're even in goal difference without the shootout and 20-22-8 in actual hockey results, including 6-3 in OT, meaning they're 14-19 in games that don't even get to OT or the shootout.  They are what they are at this point, an average team and that's not going to cut it when you need 90+ points to make the playoffs.  

Edited January 19, 2014 by NJDevs4978

[Marshall]

If you believe the bolded I have a bridge to sell you.  They're vastly different.  Only stronger goaltending the last month (ex. last night) has kept them afloat result-wise.  That team made acquisitions and trended upward during the season, this team's in hibernation when it comes to making moves and barely treading water.

 

I'm tired of hearing about the shootout being the cause of this team's ills...that's a copout.  Would it make things easier sure, but you're holding them to a high standard comparing them to a team that went 12-4 in the shootout. You can't expect 12-4 any more than you can expect 0-8.  And part of not being good in the shootout this year IS the overall lack of creativity and talent on offense.

 

 

And scoring + SO held that 2011/2012 team afloat, unless you want to sell me Marty's .908 and Hedberg's .918 SV% as their key to success. Both teams have their flaws.

 

As for the copout....I'm not holding them to a high standard, because people overrate that 2012 team and they overrate what it takes to make the playoffs. And we know that if you get in anything can happen because it's a crapshoot. 

[coldply123]

Pretty big difference between them finishing with a 17-8-7 record over their last 32 GP and completely falling to pieces.  If the Devils go 15-11-6 or thereabouts, that's not really sucking.  

 

I think they'll win at a better pace than they have on the season (for previously stated reasons...somewhat easier schedule, more home games, etc.).  Unfortunately, it has to be a lot better.  15-11-6 or so won't be good enough, more than likely.  I think they've got to get to 92+ points. 

 

I don't even think they're going to be capable of doing that.  Nothing I've seen from them from a consistency or continuity standpoint, and there's also nothing from a statistical perspective that lends credence to that happening.  We are a team with serious problems offensively with age in several forward spots and depth that has fallen off considerably.  

 

If we are out of it and Lou does not sell to retool, it will be yet another failure/missed opportunity on his part.  Zidlicky and Jagr did a nice job this year, but they aren't a part of any future.  One of the theories I have is that Lou pretty much recognizes this is not a good team and is merely transitioning over the next year.  Personally I don't want him to have the opportunity to do it, but that's what I'm working off of.  I mean he's done absolutely nothing in terms of holding anybody to account.

[Triumph]

But we are not winning these shootouts and we are simply chasing after a loser point once we get into the 3rd period. This isn't just a poor hockey team it is a boring hockey team. Third time in four years by the way we aren't any good. But I'm sure you will come up with some ridiculous CORSI stat that makes you feel all better about things.

I know it's hard for you to deal in reality and absolutes when you garble on fifty times a day with whatever nonsensical saber stats you try to use to make you sound like you are some sort of expert or that you are entitled to some special fan status.

 

lol yes, that ridiculous CORSI stat.  The Devils aren't scoring enough GOALS and Brodeur isn't making enough SAVES.

 

I didn't know a poor hockey team has an even goal differential, and that's with Brodeur doing his usual Brodeur thing.  And yes, CORSI is SOOO hard to understand - it's nonsense!

[coldply123]

lol yes, that ridiculous CORSI stat.  The Devils aren't scoring enough GOALS and Brodeur isn't making enough SAVES.

 

I didn't know a poor hockey team has an even goal differential, and that's with Brodeur doing his usual Brodeur thing.  And yes, CORSI is SOOO hard to understand - it's nonsense!

 

Yup.  Typical Triumph.

[Triumph]

Yup.  Typical Triumph.

 

Typical coldply.  No substantive response, just 'Lou sucks and DeBoer sucks'.  Here, I'll help you out - you can name the top 5 free agent bargains this off-season.  One is Jagr and one is Zidlicky.  This team is sunk without both and worse without either one.  NJ signed 6 players UFA this off-season and while Olesz didn't work out and Brunner's had some rocky periods, everyone else pretty much has (when healthy, of course).  That's not easy to do.

 

Shootouts may ultimately be what keeps the team from the playoffs, but it's one of the 8 best teams in the Conference.

[coldply123]

Typical coldply.  No substantive response, just 'Lou sucks and DeBoer sucks'.  Here, I'll help you out - you can name the top 5 free agent bargains this off-season.  One is Jagr and one is Zidlicky.  This team is sunk without both and worse without either one.  NJ signed 6 players UFA this off-season and while Olesz didn't work out and Brunner's had some rocky periods, everyone else pretty much has (when healthy, of course).  That's not easy to do.

 

Shootouts may ultimately be what keeps the team from the playoffs, but it's one of the 8 best teams in the Conference.

 

Exactly.  Imagine where we'd be without them and why we had to sign them.  That's an indictment on where we found ourselves yet again going into the season.  However they are not a part of the solution for next season and moving this team forward with a serious core.  I'd have no problem watching this team sink so the dead wood can get cleaned out throughout the organization and we move forward.  There is no clear strategy and development with this team right now from A-Z.  They finally cluster draft well in an area (D) and they can't even handle that development properly at the NHL level. 

 

It is not one of the best 8 teams in the Conference.  Not even close.  It's wrong now and it will be wrong at the end of the year, for the third time in four years.

[HellOnICE]

I don't know if they are a top-8 team in the conference, but look at the facts - if they had a little more luck injury wise, and could win a skills competition they'd be in a playoff spot. Historically bad at the skills competition is what is separating us. Even if they are average. But the games are close, we need great goaltending and we have it from one guy.

 

I don't see how Zid isn't a part of the solution for next year. I'd keep him for one more year. You can always trade him, and he's going to have value as long as he's putting points up. Ryane Clowe, Michael Ryder - these guys are valuable pieces. We can trade Ryder, I bet, but I don't know if I'd want to.

 

No clear Strategy, what does that mean? You go from year to year and try to put the best team on the ice. Does Chicago have a strategy? Yes...It's let's put the best team on the ice. They have a core that's ridiculous. We do not. We did, but sh!t hit the fan.

 

Development is questionable sure, but from that cluster of D we can't handle the development properly? I don't know, I see Merrill and Gelinas in the lineup. How many teams have 2 rookies playing every night?

 

Development is a tricky thing, but ultimately sometimes players pan out or they don't.

[2ELIAS6]

i agree our line ups have been just a total cluster mess .. i mean right down to having boucher on the first line he shouldnt even be in this league right now.. we need ryder around unless were going to dump him and something else for some type of decent return.. and i wouldnt expect any trades as lou already said that he is happy how the team is playing LOL what a joke

[Triumph]

Exactly.  Imagine where we'd be without them and why we had to sign them.  That's an indictment on where we found ourselves yet again going into the season.  However they are not a part of the solution for next season and moving this team forward with a serious core.  I'd have no problem watching this team sink so the dead wood can get cleaned out throughout the organization and we move forward.  There is no clear strategy and development with this team right now from A-Z.  They finally cluster draft well in an area (D) and they can't even handle that development properly at the NHL level. 

 

It is not one of the best 8 teams in the Conference.  Not even close.  It's wrong now and it will be wrong at the end of the year, for the third time in four years.

 

What 'dead wood'?  That's just it - the 'dead wood' is Salvador, Volchenkov, and Brodeur.  There isn't any other dead wood.  It's not a bad team.

 

Schneider has to play well for this team to make the playoffs, but it's doable.

[maxpower]

I don't know if they are a top-8 team in the conference, but look at the facts - if they had a little more luck injury wise, and could win a skills competition they'd be in a playoff spot. Historically bad at the skills competition is what is separating us. Even if they are average. But the games are close, we need great goaltending and we have it from one guy.

 

I don't see how Zid isn't a part of the solution for next year. I'd keep him for one more year. You can always trade him, and he's going to have value as long as he's putting points up. Ryane Clowe, Michael Ryder - these guys are valuable pieces. We can trade Ryder, I bet, but I don't know if I'd want to.

 

No clear Strategy, what does that mean? You go from year to year and try to put the best team on the ice. Does Chicago have a strategy? Yes...It's let's put the best team on the ice. They have a core that's ridiculous. We do not. We did, but sh!t hit the fan.

 

Development is questionable sure, but from that cluster of D we can't handle the development properly? I don't know, I see Merrill and Gelinas in the lineup. How many teams have 2 rookies playing every night?

 

Development is a tricky thing, but ultimately sometimes players pan out or they don't.

 

Larsson should be playing, Merrill is in his first full year.    Their development is assbackwards.    Larsson is a better player than Merrill at this stage.    I've watched Merrill a few times and he's green.   You can see it's there, but they're forcing it, which is somewhat similar to Larsson's year 1.   Now look where he is

[Marshall]

 

 

It is not one of the best 8 teams in the Conference.  Not even close.  It's wrong now and it will be wrong at the end of the year, for the third time in four years.

 

Rank the East then, right down to where you perceive NJ to be.

[Triumph]

Larsson should be playing, Merrill is in his first full year.    Their development is assbackwards.    Larsson is a better player than Merrill at this stage.    I've watched Merrill a few times and he's green.   You can see it's there, but they're forcing it, which is somewhat similar to Larsson's year 1.   Now look where he is

 

I don't really think this is demonstrably true.  They've played about evenly so far this year.  Both guys should be in the lineup - Larsson would clearly be in the lineup had he not been injured.

[dmann422]

Avoided this thread for ~14 hours cuz I knew it would be mayhem... didn't disappoint.

Rough loss, I missed the first half of the game but I thought we were the stronger team in what I saw. Once again the results (i.e. back of the opponent's net) weren't there. Most nights this team comes out, competes hard and is the better team on the ice, but can't break through. That's why I can't understand how people find it so easy to blame Lou or Pete.

As far as looking ahead and the playoff picture- I really don't know what to expect.... I'll just cross my fingers and see what happens and enjoy watching.

[coldply123]

Rank the East then, right down to where you perceive NJ to be.

 

The only teams worse than us are the Panthers, Isles, and the woeful Sabres.  I could even see the Isles jumping ahead of us if their D contributes a bit more offensively and their goaltending isn't awful.

 

Speaking Standings-Wise:

 

Even the Canes are better than we are and they also own 3 games in hand at this point in the schedule on us.  Even the teams ahead of us that aren't by much have around 2 games in hand.  We are not better than any of the teams currently ahead of us.  Not even close.

[Marshall]

The only teams worse than us are the Panthers, Isles, and the woeful Sabres.  I could even see the Isles jumping ahead of us if their D contributes a bit more offensively and their goaltending isn't awful.

 

Speaking Standings-Wise:

 

Even the Canes are better than we are and they also own 3 games in hand at this point in the schedule on us.  Even the teams ahead of us that aren't by much have around 2 games in hand.  We are not better than any of the teams currently ahead of us.  Not even close.

 

So in other words these standings are set in concrete? That is pretty effing rich. I'd love to be your bookie because I'd make a fortune off of you.

[coldply123]

So in other words these standings are set in concrete? That is pretty effing rich. I'd love to be your bookie because I'd make a fortune off of you.

Nobody said they were. What's your point? I answered your question and there's very little to refute where we stand and what I said. I realize you want to sprinkle pixie dust all around and drink some of Lou's expired KoolAid and act like we have been screwed by everybody in existence (this is another topic I can't stand with Devils fans and their conspiracy theories and excuses with players leaving) and that we will suddenly become a playoff team but right now we are nothing close to it and based on our situation if one were to bet I would absolutely take the under on a Devils playoff wager. But as a personal rule I don't bet on sports as I am a fan and don't like money getting involved. If we make the playoffs you can write it down and have the mods delete my account.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

Where is all this Merrill hate coming from? Do people not realize how good he has been as a first year pro? Its hard to compare to Paul Martin since he got to play with Niedermayer but I believe he is every bit as good a rookie.

[coldply123]

Where is all this Merrill hate coming from? Do people not realize how good he has been as a first year pro? Its hard to compare to Paul Martin since he got to play with Niedermayer but I believe he is every bit as good a rookie.

So are we judging him as a 1st yr player or assuming he's a quality mid pairing defenseman without any preconceived notions as to his experience. He's been pretty bad lately. There's no lens needed for that. He got me excited after the first leg of games but he has regressed heavily. Either way it's clear Deboer loves him.

[Jas0nMacIsaac]

So are we judging him as a 1st yr player or assuming he's a quality mid pairing defenseman without any preconceived notions as to his experience. He's been pretty bad lately. There's no lens needed for that. He got me excited after the first leg of games but he has regressed heavily. Either way it's clear Deboer loves him.

No, biased fans will only see the mistakes he has been making. How about the dozens of times he has made amazing plays with the puck or escaped a heavy forcheck getting the puck going the other way. He is making no more mistakes than Salvador Fayne or Volchenkov and many less mistakes than Zidlicky and Gelinas. Having Brodeur in nets makes those mistakes more noticeable. Having a .904 sv rate while on the ice isn't helping.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Jas0nMacIsaac

[Triumph]

Nobody said they were. What's your point? I answered your question and there's very little to refute where we stand and what I said. I realize you want to sprinkle pixie dust all around and drink some of Lou's expired KoolAid and act like we have been screwed by everybody in existence (this is another topic I can't stand with Devils fans and their conspiracy theories and excuses with players leaving) and that we will suddenly become a playoff team but right now we are nothing close to it and based on our situation if one were to bet I would absolutely take the under on a Devils playoff wager. But as a personal rule I don't bet on sports as I am a fan and don't like money getting involved. If we make the playoffs you can write it down and have the mods delete my account.

 

You have not made one substantive point.  You've just mentioned the standings, as if being ranked 12th out of 15 when the other teams are ridiculously bunched up ahead of NJ is meaningful.

 

Where is all this Merrill hate coming from? Do people not realize how good he has been as a first year pro? Its hard to compare to Paul Martin since he got to play with Niedermayer but I believe he is every bit as good a rookie.

 

Yeah, playing with Gelinas regularly doesn't really help anyone, but he is impressive.  I know because I don't hear people complaining about how bad he is.