3 Ways The Devils Have Disappointed (You) at the Break

[TheRedStorm]

Christ can we just make a separate thread for mike brown talk... As smantaz said just put him on ignore if you don't want to see his posts, otherwise the people constantly complaining about it come off ironically like they're trying to boost their post count or acting like board police.

 

 

So, if you're complaining about the people complaining does that make you part of the problem, too? 

[Daniel]

 

Most underappreciated:  Zidlicky would be a top defensemen if we had better scoring forwards.    I hope we extend his contract, because no one can provide the offensive like he does on our team.   It's too bad he has to take some many risks because our forwards can't score.

 

He's old and he takes too many penalties, but you're right, the team needs every ounce of help it can get scoring. 

 

Still, I probably would not want him back next year, and would kick the tires on him at the trade deadline to see if we could get anything of any significance for him.  We can probably get the same offensive production from Gelinas, especially if you factor in the powerplay. 

 

And really, so long as it doesn't effect Schneider re-signing, I would almost take a chance tanking next year.  Not only do you have the McDavid sweepstakes, but evidently the next few players after him are supposed to be really good.  It's a pick like that can turn around the fortunes of a franchise pretty quickly. 

[Triumph]

So, if you're complaining about the people complaining does that make you part of the problem, too? 

 

Hahaha, god this is so rich.

 

He's old and he takes too many penalties, but you're right, the team needs every ounce of help it can get scoring. 

 

Still, I probably would not want him back next year, and would kick the tires on him at the trade deadline to see if we could get anything of any significance for him.  We can probably get the same offensive production from Gelinas, especially if you factor in the powerplay. 

 

And really, so long as it doesn't effect Schneider re-signing, I would almost take a chance tanking next year.  Not only do you have the McDavid sweepstakes, but evidently the next few players after him are supposed to be really good.  It's a pick like that can turn around the fortunes of a franchise pretty quickly. 

 

The only way to tank with a goalie as good as Cory Schneider is to be expansion team bad.  So, no, that makes absolutely no sense - if you were going to tank, you certainly could do so by trading Schneider for whatever you could get for him (and you could probably get almost what you paid) and going with Kinkaid - then you'd be in the conversation.

[dmann422]

So, if you're complaining about the people complaining does that make you part of the problem, too?

lol touché. I would point out that unlike the others I made a quick reference than brought my post in topic but touché nonetheless.

I would hope zidlicky is gone next year not because he can't be useful but because I hope fayne is re-signed instead. Then we roll with Larsson fayne and Volch as our rhd. Zids does bring offense but IMO his penalties and poor defense even his usefulness out a bit.

Edited February 18, 2014 by dmann422

[TheRedStorm]

Hahaha, god this is so rich.

 

 

You forgot to say "BAZINGA"!

[Daniel]

Hahaha, god this is so rich.

 

 

The only way to tank with a goalie as good as Cory Schneider is to be expansion team bad.  So, no, that makes absolutely no sense - if you were going to tank, you certainly could do so by trading Schneider for whatever you could get for him (and you could probably get almost what you paid) and going with Kinkaid - then you'd be in the conversation.

 

Like I said, the plan wouldn't be to tank, but certainly to have a much younger defense overall.  Still, as good as Schneider is, the team is probably going to be even worse next year scoring goals, unless Henrique turns into a world beater.  Even if Jagr comes back, he's another year older, Elias and Zubrus aren't getting any younger.  Next year, the Devils could conceivably average fewer than two goals for a game. 

 

With all of the parity, there's not much separating a playoff team from the fifth worst record overall, which is generally when winning the lottery becomes plausible. 

[Derlique]

Like I said, the plan wouldn't be to tank, but certainly to have a much younger defense overall.  Still, as good as Schneider is, the team is probably going to be even worse next year scoring goals, unless Henrique turns into a world beater.  Even if Jagr comes back, he's another year older, Elias and Zubrus aren't getting any younger.  Next year, the Devils could conceivably average fewer than two goals for a game. 

 

With all of the parity, there's not much separating a playoff team from the fifth worst record overall, which is generally when winning the lottery becomes plausible. 

 

Looking at Lou's recent track record, he's actually been proactive in filling this team's needs. Last year, goaltending absolutely killed us, so what does he do? He goes out and gets one of the best in the business. We lose Kovalchuk and Parise in back to back summers, so he gets Ryder, Clown and Jagr. NJ hasn't been able to score for the better part of two years. I think Lou makes a pretty big splash this off season (think Stastny or a big trade).

 

Last year, he added Loktionov, D'Agostini, Sullivan and Ponikarovsky

 

This post isn't necessarily directed towards you, but to those who have been disappointed at Lou

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

The only way to tank with a goalie as good as Cory Schneider is to be expansion team bad.  So, no, that makes absolutely no sense - if you were going to tank, you certainly could do so by trading Schneider for whatever you could get for him (and you could probably get almost what you paid) and going with Kinkaid - then you'd be in the conversation.

 

Yeah, Schneider alone probably guarantees at least 70 points in today's NHL, provided you have some decent NHLers on the roster...you'd have to have literally nothing else on the ice to do worse.  The days of the '92-'93 Sharks (11 wins) kind of futility are long over.    

 

The other problem of course is that it's pretty hard to get teams to purposely tank or underperform, unless they're built for that specific purpose, which takes a serious "commitment" from the franchise (suffering through leaner attendance, etc).  Hector Marini said when he first became a Devil that it was very clear the team was building completely from scratch (in Colorado, the gameplan seem to change every week), and that guys like him and many of his teammates (minimal upside-types) were being brought in to be little more than warm bodies that would be replaced with younger, better bodies as the team built from within (even though guys like Marini were actually fairly young themselves).  No way a guy like Schneider would ever want to suffer through even one season of that, let alone two or more. 

[Triumph]

Like I said, the plan wouldn't be to tank, but certainly to have a much younger defense overall.  Still, as good as Schneider is, the team is probably going to be even worse next year scoring goals, unless Henrique turns into a world beater.  Even if Jagr comes back, he's another year older, Elias and Zubrus aren't getting any younger.  Next year, the Devils could conceivably average fewer than two goals for a game. 

 

With all of the parity, there's not much separating a playoff team from the fifth worst record overall, which is generally when winning the lottery becomes plausible. 

 

The Devils have run exceptionally bad at shootouts and have played a terrible goalie for half their games and they're still where they are.  A younger defense, unless it's at the expense of Andy Greene, will improve the team - Larsson, Gelinas, and Merrill are almost certainly better in the aggregate than Volchenkov, Zidlicky, and Fayne.  To tank this franchise, you would have to deal Schneider and Greene and sign no one to replace them or Jagr in the off-season, and even then you would be in danger of being too good - you'd really have to fire the coach and hire someone terrible.  

[Devilsfan118]

 

No one knows what is going on. Good thread? Back on topic? Please honestly this is why I wax Stevens. This crap is just as subjective, random and BORING as a girl chubby on one or all players is. How can you all not know that? I'm just sayin.

 

Freudian slip?

 

Re: Zidlicky - I think this is probably as good as it's going to get with him at his age.  I think the Devils should sell high now, honestly.  He's still a very appealing OFD and I bet some teams would want him for a playoff run.  Might be able to snag a 1st if the bidding war gets high enough, imo

[Colorado Rockies 1976]

 

 

 

 

Freudian slip?

 

Re: Zidlicky - I think this is probably as good as it's going to get with him at his age.  I think the Devils should sell high now, honestly.  He's still a very appealing OFD and I bet some teams would want him for a playoff run.  Might be able to snag a 1st if the bidding war gets high enough, imo

 

 

Wow, a first for Zid?  I'd be floored if any GM ever did that (but I'd be beyond thrilled).  He's more of a nice complimentary piece than one that could put someone over the top. 

[Daniel]

The Devils have run exceptionally bad at shootouts and have played a terrible goalie for half their games and they're still where they are.  A younger defense, unless it's at the expense of Andy Greene, will improve the team - Larsson, Gelinas, and Merrill are almost certainly better in the aggregate than Volchenkov, Zidlicky, and Fayne.  To tank this franchise, you would have to deal Schneider and Greene and sign no one to replace them or Jagr in the off-season, and even then you would be in danger of being too good - you'd really have to fire the coach and hire someone terrible.  

 

Well, do you disagree that next year fewer than two goals a game is distinct possibility?  If so, reversing the team's luck in shoot outs (even if you assume that shootout success is mostly a product of luck) won't help all that much.  It might be the case that the scoring is so bad that we'll end up with even fewer shootouts. 

 

If that's the case, and even with Schneider playing at the top of his game, the team's point total could be pretty bad. 

[Derlique]

Wow, a first for Zid?  I'd be floored if any GM ever did that (but I'd be beyond thrilled).  He's more of a nice complimentary piece than one that could put someone over the top. 

Don't think he's great on the PP, but I could see why a team would think so. Has a great shot, is pretty creative, a decent passer etc. His defensive deficiencies are sort of overblown, but he obviously isn't great. His salary is low, which broadens the amount of places he could go to should Lou go that route.

[Triumph]

Well, do you disagree that next year fewer than two goals a game is distinct possibility?  If so, reversing the team's luck in shoot outs (even if you assume that shootout success is mostly a product of luck) won't help all that much.  It might be the case that the scoring is so bad that we'll end up with even fewer shootouts. 

 

If that's the case, and even with Schneider playing at the top of his game, the team's point total could be pretty bad. 

 

Yes, I do disagree.  I think the Devils will go out and sign a free agent forward of some note.  I think Reid Boucher will have a 15 minute a game role on next year's team and that he will shoot the puck a ton and score 15-20 goals per 82 games played.  If the scoring is worse, NJ will end up in more shootouts, not fewer - the Devils have 8 wins in overtime, which is probably tops in the NHL.  They've been in 21 OT games this year, tied for the most in the NHL.  And that's with Brodeur playing half the games and Brodeur is terrible.

[Daniel]

Yes, I do disagree.  I think the Devils will go out and sign a free agent forward of some note.  I think Reid Boucher will have a 15 minute a game role on next year's team and that he will shoot the puck a ton and score 15-20 goals per 82 games played.  If the scoring is worse, NJ will end up in more shootouts, not fewer - the Devils have 8 wins in overtime, which is probably tops in the NHL.  They've been in 21 OT games this year, tied for the most in the NHL.  And that's with Brodeur playing half the games and Brodeur is terrible.

 

I'm not that sold on Boucher for the short term, or at least that he'll score more than 15 goals next year.  Yes, the calculations change if they sign someone like Moulson or Statsny.  But right now, most of the scoring is a product of old guys, some of whom are very old, and may not even be back next year. 

[Mike Brown]

Gelly does and will turn out to be a better defenseman as time goes on.

Gelly has already shown to be good defensively. When he was paired with Larsson, he was excellent defensively.

Freudian slip?

Re: Zidlicky - I think this is probably as good as it's going to get with him at his age. I think the Devils should sell high now, honestly. He's still a very appealing OFD and I bet some teams would want him for a playoff run. Might be able to snag a 1st if the bidding war gets high enough, imo

We aren't getting a first for Jagr, and you think we would get a first for Zidlicky? I truly believe a lot of you are overrating the value of our players.

[Devilsfan118]

We aren't getting a first for Jagr, and you think we would get a first for Zidlicky? I truly believe a lot of you are overrating the value of our players.

 

Yeah I'm not getting into this again with you, but Jagr should get a late 1st, no question.  He's having a better season on an arguably worse team than last year with Dallas, when he was traded for a conditional 2nd (that had a good chance of being a 1st) and two prospects.  He'll get the same if not more this year, if Lou shops well.

 

Zidlicky.. it depends on the interest.  There are stupid GMs in this league, if Lou can pit enough of them against each other it could happen.  

 

The Penguins traded a 2nd and a conditional 2nd for Murray - I'd be shocked if Lou got less than that for Zidlicky.  And I'd take either a 1st or that deal for Zidlicky.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Devilsfan118

[dmann422]

Yeah I'm not getting into this again with you, but Jagr should get a late 1st, no question. He's having a better season on an arguably worse team than last year with Dallas, when he was traded for a conditional 2nd (that had a good chance of being a 1st) and two prospects. He'll get the same if not more this year, if Lou shops well.

Zidlicky.. it depends on the interest. There are stupid GMs in this league, if Lou can pit enough of them against each other it could happen.

The Penguins traded a 2nd and a conditional 2nd for Murray - I'd be shocked if Lou got less than that for Zidlicky. And I'd take either a 1st or that deal for Zidlicky.

yeah it all depends on how many teams are interested and who else is available. It looks like if jagr and zid are on the block (which IMO is unlikely right now), they will be the best available winger and offensive dman. If say you have 2 teams going hard after zid, I don't think it's ridiculous to think that one will pay up a first in a weak draft for him.

But again I'm still not sure Lou makes a move. If he does I hope it's a defenseman going preferably Volch sal or zidlicky. Zid will get the best return but even that I'm not sure about because of the whole Czech culture in the lockeroom.

[Marshall]

Wow, a first for Zid?  I'd be floored if any GM ever did that (but I'd be beyond thrilled).  

 

All you need is two GMs offering 2nd rounders and one of them thinking they need a player like Zid to win 2+ rounds.

[Daniel]

Looking at Lou's recent track record, he's actually been proactive in filling this team's needs. Last year, goaltending absolutely killed us, so what does he do? He goes out and gets one of the best in the business. We lose Kovalchuk and Parise in back to back summers, so he gets Ryder, Clown and Jagr. NJ hasn't been able to score for the better part of two years. I think Lou makes a pretty big splash this off season (think Stastny or a big trade).

 

Last year, he added Loktionov, D'Agostini, Sullivan and Ponikarovsky

 

This post isn't necessarily directed towards you, but to those who have been disappointed at Lou

 

It wasn't a post meant to blame Lou, which I is what I think you were getting at.

 

Still, knowing you have to fill a need and being able to do it are two separate things.  With Schneider the planets were alligned perfectly to make that happen.  Adding Loktionov, D'Agostini, Sullivan and Poni last year isn't really going to go down as a stroke of brilliance, although that's probably the best he could do with the cards he had.

 

A lot of teams will be chasing Statsny, so unless Lou trades for him and then gives him 8 years, the chances are he'll be playing somewhere else.  I think Matt Moulson is more likely. All things being equal, he could probably nudge the Devils to about 2.2 goals per game next year, which is still pretty awful. 

Edited February 18, 2014 by Daniel

[Daniel]

Yeah, Schneider alone probably guarantees at least 70 points in today's NHL, provided you have some decent NHLers on the roster...you'd have to have literally nothing else on the ice to do worse.  The days of the '92-'93 Sharks (11 wins) kind of futility are long over.    

 

The other problem of course is that it's pretty hard to get teams to purposely tank or underperform, unless they're built for that specific purpose, which takes a serious "commitment" from the franchise (suffering through leaner attendance, etc).  Hector Marini said when he first became a Devil that it was very clear the team was building completely from scratch (in Colorado, the gameplan seem to change every week), and that guys like him and many of his teammates (minimal upside-types) were being brought in to be little more than warm bodies that would be replaced with younger, better bodies as the team built from within (even though guys like Marini were actually fairly young themselves).  No way a guy like Schneider would ever want to suffer through even one season of that, let alone two or more. 

 

"Tank" was probably the wrong word.  Basically what I meant is that an option would be to be fairly quiet this offseason, and not bother with any of the short term fixes that you can use to plug up an otherwise leaky ship, guys like Ryder and Brunner come to mind.  So you'd be running with a talented, but young defensive group, and an offense could be even more anemic than it is this year.  Even with Schneider, that could be a pretty ugly year in the standings. 

[Triumph]

"Tank" was probably the wrong word.  Basically what I meant is that an option would be to be fairly quiet this offseason, and not bother with any of the short term fixes that you can use to plug up an otherwise leaky ship, guys like Ryder and Brunner come to mind.  So you'd be running with a talented, but young defensive group, and an offense could be even more anemic than it is this year.  Even with Schneider, that could be a pretty ugly year in the standings. 

 

I don't think you realize how bad a team like Buffalo or Calgary are.

[lazer]

It wasn't a post meant to blame Lou, which I is what I think you were getting at.

 

Still, knowing you have to fill a need and being able to do it are two separate things.  With Schneider the planets were alligned perfectly to make that happen.  Adding Loktionov, D'Agostini, Sullivan and Poni last year isn't really going to go down as a stroke of brilliance, although that's probably the best he could do with the cards he had.

 

 

 

 

 

Kostopolous too

 

cant blame lou too much myself; i want to see all the younger guys up including bouch and matts but i can wait another year so.

 

awesome thread though.

 

i do want cammalleri too but i can see how it might not fit.

Edited February 18, 2014 by lazer

[Daniel]

I don't think you realize how bad a team like Buffalo or Calgary are.

 

That's two teams.  After that, you can probably pencil in Florida as being worse than the Devils no matter what happens next year.  That makes winning the lottery plausible.

 

Right now, the Devils would have the number 7 pick.  If you take away Jagr, who will either be older or gone next year, that could easily get a lot worse.  The even worse decline in the offense would more than make up for the lost points that Marty has caused this year, and Marty actually had a stretch where he was pretty good. 

[thecoffeecake]

If you take away Jagr, who will either be older or gone next year, that could easily get a lot worse.

I'd put my money on the team performing much better without Jagr.