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The Official 2014 Trade Deadline Thread


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Re:  Marty...the ball is really in his court now.  No matter what happens between now and the end of the season, unless he rips the Devils organization or the fans, I think whatever bad feelings some Devils fans are currently having towards him will subside...if Devils fans can get past Scott Niedermayer leaving their team to go win a Cup with someone else, they can get past anything.  For all the "Greedermayer", "Needmybrother", and "Mamma's Boy" hatred that came his way just after and during his Ducks career, people got over it, and were willing to celebrate his number retirement without issue...most truly embraced the event, and him as a result.  All Marty really has to do is the following and he'll be fine:

 

1)  Act like you're 100% happy to still be a Devil, even if you're not.  Say some things to that effect. 

 

2)  No talk about playing time (or lack thereof) or playing next season.  No one wants to hear that from a declining .899 save% 41-year-old, especially when the other guy is clearly much better.  The less you say about this, the less guys like PDB and Lou and teammates and others have to look bad saying things and singing praises that just about every Devils fan knows are horsesh!t.  If fans know you're not terribly good anymore, you can bet that everyone else does too, even if they don't dare say it. 

 

3)  For the remaining 19 games of this season, be a good soldier.  You WILL get some games, probably more than you deserve.  You won't be put out to pasture.  Make the most of them.   

 

4)  Please retire at the end of this year.  Don't Messier your way into making the Devils keep you around for one last season when every last sign points to you being finished.  Don't make the NHL force you to retire.  Do it on your terms, as a Devil, end of this season, gracefully.                

 

I agree with everything you say but there is one huge difference between him and Niedermayer.  Scott was never a detriment to the team and acted like a true professional throughout.  I know there were some early season hold outs earlier in his career but that was still when Lou ruled with a iron fist.  I always felt like he did nothing but help us win games and was never a distraction.   The rules were set that at a certain age, he became a UFA and he decided to go somewhere else.  I have no problem with that.  I had a bigger problem with the fact that it took years for Lou to adequately replace him.   You can argue he never did.     

 

With Marty, it has been nothing but wanting more playing time and doing what is best for him over the last 6 months.  I don't think the guy owes me anything personally but as a Devils fan, I find it sickening to see the way he's treating the organization that has done just as much, if not more for him, than he as he has done for them.  Hopefully, yesterday was a wake up call to him about his true value and he'll keep his mouth shut for the rest of the season and be the good soldier but who knows.  I know I've lost a ton of respect for the guy and it's going to be an even tougher pill to swallow if we miss the playoff by a point or two.     

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Marty is going to play a little bit going forward. He has to, we need a backup to start a little. I'm fine with that, but you have to be really selective. Try to keep it against weaker teams on home-ice.

 

And btw, F the league for all these back-to-backs.

 

Marty's rest of the season should look like this:

 

@Florida 3/14

Florida 3/31

Carolina 4/5

 

Depending on the playoff race if he plays against the Isles or Senators. If we're in the playoffs, play him against Boston to end the season. I swear to god if we need that Boston game to get in and they play Marty, I'd flip out.

 

Everyone keeps saying this, but we don't actually. Brodeur would regularly start 75+ games, and even when Brodeur went down last year, Hedberg started as many games in a row until Brodeur got back.

 

Schneider got weeks off, so he is going to be well rested. It comes down to the Devils not treating Brodeur like a typical Devils backup when he might as well be Kinkaid or Clemmensen.

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Lat, in fairness to Marty, I don't think he's been constantly going out of his way to bring his situation up to the media...he comments on it when asked.  The deadline had a lot to do with the frequency of the questions ramping up.  One could argue that he could (or should) have been a little less forthcoming, maybe come across a little less "me first", but I think this has been, and remains, a very difficult adjustment for him. 

 

The rest is all speculation at this point...we've heard from Kypreos-types that Marty's supposedly not happy with still being a Devil, but I'm not willing to take their collective word for it.  Marty doesn't really have to do much here except say that he supports the Devils and is happy to be here whether he plays in 3 games or 13, and not talk about next year until this season is over.  It's OK to lie through his teeth in this case about the particulars...his teammates, GM, and coach have been doing it on his behalf for months now. 

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I just wonder what it's gonna take to Marty to "realize" he's done. Numbers certainly isnt, hopefully the trade deadline opened at least ONE eye... 

 

like i said i'd just like to see him finish the season without really being so OUT THERE with the medias feeding them quotes putting unnecessary pressure on the organization or Schneider (somewhat) 

 

and then he tries to get a pro tryout "somewhere" but doesnt get a contract, wait a few weeks/months home and then decide / realize it's time...

 

i REALLY think that's what it would take. 

 

Wonder IF he does sign somewhere if Lou would do a move like they did for Modano to sign him for like a day or wtv just so he retires as a Devils 

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We'll see CR.  It will be interesting to see how he handles this.  He did handle the benching for Team Canada well in Vancouver so there is reason to hope he will take the high road from here on out.  

 

Sterio, I think your hypothetical is exactly what will happen.  Marty is not going to get signed July 1 so he'll end up going somewhere on a pro tryout in September before finally calling it quits.  

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and then he tries to get a pro tryout "somewhere" but doesnt get a contract, wait a few weeks/months home and then decide / realize it's time...

 

 

Yes, I think that's what will happen. 

 

Edit: regarding Marty and others being better...it seems he can acknowledge that Corey/Luongo are better goalies but he has zero clue of what it takes to play in the NHL. Zero.

Edited by Marshall
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What is sad though is that he probably wouldnt listen to the people around him that he "should" listen to.

 

in my mind Lou would be the only one who could tell him "listen i think its over" and obviously its not something easy to say to Marty.

 

Other than that im sure Brodeur's kids, wife, friends, agent (i mean he wants to make money) would all tell him that he should try to play as much as he can.

 

Plus obviously we all know that Brodeur will have to pay his ex some big money for another few years so he might want to get every single penny he can.

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Everyone keeps saying this, but we don't actually. Brodeur would regularly start 75+ games, and even when Brodeur went down last year, Hedberg started as many games in a row until Brodeur got back.

 

Schneider got weeks off, so he is going to be well rested. It comes down to the Devils not treating Brodeur like a typical Devils backup when he might as well be Kinkaid or Clemmensen.

 

Brodeur never should've been playing that much.  He wasn't worse in back to back games, so maybe that's why he played so much, but I think that was largely an accident.  There was really no sense in Brodeur playing 75 games a year - Schneider should've gotten 62 games this year.

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Re:  Ruutu, in some ways it's like the Devils got him for nothing.  Loktionov wasn't going to be here after this year anyway.  Maybe he turns into something for someone else, but the guess here is he'll continue to show why he was taken in the 5th round, if he's even in the NHL next season.  The fact is that if you really show something and force yourself to be noticed, teams will find a way to get you in the lineup, or at the very least, in more significant roles.  He opened some eyes with that 7 goal, 4 assist burst in his first 18 GP as a Devil, but he hadn't done much since (13 points in his last 58 GP).  Maybe the simple fact is the reason Loki never really made a name for himself here or in LA is that he's simply not very good and hasn't really progressed much.  As for a conditional 2017 3rd-rounder, I can't worry about a mid-round pick that's several seasons away.  I'm guessing the reason it's so far off is that it's contigent on Ruutu re-signing with the Devils?  Anyway, the pick isn't really a big deal.

 

I'm sorry, but Loktionov did not 'show why he was picked in the 5th round'.  5th round players seldom become regular NHLers.  A player's draft position really carries little weight 6 years away from the draft.  Loktionov has run bad in terms of on-ice SH%, not much other way to put it.  He himself is probably not a great shooter.  Either way, there's a regular NHL player in there, and he added a dynamism to NJ that Ruutu does not, so that's a little disappointing.  It's more disappointing that we have to see Henrique moved off the wing where he has been excellent for center which is a position I don't think he plays particularly well.

 

 

As for Ruutu himself, he's not a sexy player and his salary is not great, but at least the 'Canes are on the hook for 20% of the cash he has coming to him.  Hopefully his low shooting% is due for some positive regression.  But I've moved from the "WTF?!" camp to the "OK, doesn't look great at first glance, but let's give it a chance" group.  I like that he at least can get a practice or two in with his new teammates.

 

Positive regression should not be 'expected' - this is the gambler's fallacy.  We should expect Ruutu to shoot closer to his career norm than what he's done this year.  Still, if he's not getting PP time he shouldn't do a ton.

 

One thing Ruutu does do is give them a little depth in case of injury - the Devils aren't tremendously deep right now.  Josefson would be the 13th forward, but then it's either Boucher, Sislo, or Sestito are the first callups - hopefully Ruutu forestalls that a little bit.

Edited by Triumph
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I'm sorry, but Loktionov did not 'show why he was picked in the 5th round'.  5th round players seldom become regular NHLers.  A player's draft position really carries little weight 6 years away from the draft.  Loktionov has run bad in terms of on-ice SH%, not much other way to put it.  He himself is probably not a great shooter.  Either way, there's a regular NHL player in there, and he added a dynamism to NJ that Ruutu does not, so that's a little disappointing.  It's more disappointing that we have to see Henrique moved off the wing where he has been excellent for center which is a position I don't think he plays particularly well.

 

 

 

Positive regression should not be 'expected' - this is the gambler's fallacy.  We should expect Ruutu to shoot closer to his career norm than what he's done this year.  Still, if he's not getting PP time he shouldn't do a ton.

 

One thing Ruutu does do is give them a little depth in case of injury - the Devils aren't tremendously deep right now.  Josefson would be the 13th forward, but then it's either Boucher, Sislo, or Sestito are the first callups - hopefully Ruutu forestalls that a little bit.

 

Loktionov was a healthy scratch for six straight games at one point.  Sure sounds like a guy struggling to become a regular NHLer to me.  I remember some thinking the trade was a steal at the time it was made.  Devils did get 76 NHL games out of him, which I guess isn't a bad return for the 5th-rounder they gave up (a lot of 5th-rounders never get that far), but it wasn't like LA got fleeced.  At 23 going on 24, he's already on his third team...we'll see if Carolina re-signs him, or if he goes to the KHL or NHL team #4. 

 

Never said anything about "expecting" positive regression...simply hoping for some.  You're always the guy who would say something like "A career 12.1% shooter is not going to shoot 6.3% for the season, he's due for some luck."  Obviously shot quantity will factor in heavily.  Gotta see how the Devils plan on using him. 

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http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Sullivan_Keeping_Brodeur_was_best_move_Lou_didnt_make__.html

 

All Hail Marty ! 

I'm not a rational kind of guy... I wanna have Marty another 10 years between the pipes ! 

 

I know... I knoooow... 

Whatever !

MARTY ! 

 

I saw so many people with a HUGE EGO in my life already...But so little got as many excuse as Marty got ! 

 

I let all the rational people here wanna see him buried in retirement house or worse... in another franchise. Meanwhile, i will be childish, silly, naive, irrational & plain stupid... and Keep thinking that Marty is here for another 10 years.

At the end, rational people are more often right.. and they will be in this case... probably ; ) 

But i don't care being wrong (for once ; ) )... I don't wanna grow up ! And I love you Marty ! 

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Yes, I think that's what will happen. 

 

Edit: regarding Marty and others being better...it seems he can acknowledge that Corey/Luongo are better goalies but he has zero clue of what it takes to play in the NHL. Zero.

 

Suggesting Marty has no idea what it takes to play in the NHL is a little ridiculous. He's played in the NHL more than any other goalie. He knows what it takes. He just can't accept that he doesn't have it anymore.

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Based on this statement Marty should start Friday. I don't believe that I didn't think he should have started Tuesdays game it was too risky but he did and we were lucky that Detroit scored a goal for us while Marty allowed at least one softie.

 

No, I didn't say this is the way it should be. I said this is the way Debo is handling things and I get it. If Marty had had a 40 save shutout then he maybe plays Friday. He didn't, so DeBoer will go back to Schneids.

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Everyone keeps saying this, but we don't actually. Brodeur would regularly start 75+ games, and even when Brodeur went down last year, Hedberg started as many games in a row until Brodeur got back.

 

Schneider got weeks off, so he is going to be well rested. It comes down to the Devils not treating Brodeur like a typical Devils backup when he might as well be Kinkaid or Clemmensen.

 

 

Not disagreeing that Schneider should start nearly every game down the stretch, especially since he did go to Sochi but weren't Marty's years of over 75 games the same seasons he would typically look burnt out and be a non-factor in the playoffs?  

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Not disagreeing that Schneider should start nearly every game down the stretch, especially since he did go to Sochi but weren't Marty's years of over 75 games the same seasons he would typically look burnt out and be a non-factor in the playoffs?  

 

In some cases. He played 72 in 2000 and 73 in 2003. He was a real workhorse. But yeah, he looked a little burnt some years. 99 and 04 come to mind, but he supposedly battling a knee injury in 04.

 

I'd like to see Schneider getting at least 15 of the remaining 19.

Edited by Devil Dan 56
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Loktionov was a healthy scratch for six straight games at one point.  Sure sounds like a guy struggling to become a regular NHLer to me.  I remember some thinking the trade was a steal at the time it was made.  Devils did get 76 NHL games out of him, which I guess isn't a bad return for the 5th-rounder they gave up (a lot of 5th-rounders never get that far), but it wasn't like LA got fleeced.  At 23 going on 24, he's already on his third team...we'll see if Carolina re-signs him, or if he goes to the KHL or NHL team #4.

 

After absolutely crushing territorially for 6 games and somehow not coming away with a goal.  Again, just because Loktionov was a 5th rounder means nothing - a 1st round pick could've done the same, an undrafted free agent could've done the same.  His draft status means nothing in 2013-14.

 

 

Never said anything about "expecting" positive regression...simply hoping for some.  You're always the guy who would say something like "A career 12.1% shooter is not going to shoot 6.3% for the season, he's due for some luck."  Obviously shot quantity will factor in heavily.  Gotta see how the Devils plan on using him.

 

I never really say anything like that.  Regression to the mean does not work like that.  It just means that we should expect a success rate similar to that of a player's career success rate on any given shot.  Players are not 'due'.

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This is all great discussion, but bottom line:  If keeping Marty around somehow prevents Schneider from signing an extension, that would be the worst mistake of all.

 

If Schneider signs, a lot of this immediately goes away. 

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This is all great discussion, but bottom line:  If keeping Marty around somehow prevents Schneider from signing an extension, that would be the worst mistake of all.

 

If Schneider signs, a lot of this immediately goes away. 

 

A lot, but not all.  Brodeur should not play 30 games next year.  He should not play 20 games next year.  If he has to be here - and indeed, I think his ego will force him to be - he should be playing 18 games maximum.  

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Another point...I saw two articles today stating along the lines of "he's not washed up, he actually has more wins that Schneider."  That's just terrible journalism.  The Devils have scored 1.85 GPG in Schneider's decisions, compared to 3.03 GPG in Marty's decisions.  I can't believe the split is that high.  But journalists won't look at that side of the story.

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Another point...I saw two articles today stating along the lines of "he's not washed up, he actually has more wins that Schneider."  That's just terrible journalism.  The Devils have scored 1.85 GPG in Schneider's decisions, compared to 3.03 GPG in Marty's decisions.  I can't believe the split is that high.  But journalists won't look at that side of the story.

 

There is a large portion of die hard fans and the MSM that sight wins and GAA. the NHL's Dan Rosen actually said how important the tandem is by combining their GAA together and saying it is 5th best in the league! Firstly, a useless stat to compare goalies from one team to another, and secondly why combine a 1.92 average and 2.49 average to make your point.

 

As for the goal support, I went through those stats the other day:

 

 

Some numbers:

 

Brodeur 91 GF in 30 games.

 

Schneider 61 GF in 33 games.

 

Tonight was Brodeur's 5th win of the season when giving up 3 or more goals. Cory has 0 such wins. Cory actually only has 3 wins all season when giving up 2 goals.

 

 

To add to that, Schneider had 4 losses when giving up 1 goal or less in regulation.

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http://www.northjersey.com/columnists/Sullivan_Keeping_Brodeur_was_best_move_Lou_didnt_make__.html

 

All Hail Marty ! 

I'm not a rational kind of guy... I wanna have Marty another 10 years between the pipes ! 

 

I know... I knoooow... 

Whatever !

MARTY ! 

 

I saw so many people with a HUGE EGO in my life already...But so little got as many excuse as Marty got ! 

 

I let all the rational people here wanna see him buried in retirement house or worse... in another franchise. Meanwhile, i will be childish, silly, naive, irrational & plain stupid... and Keep thinking that Marty is here for another 10 years.

At the end, rational people are more often right.. and they will be in this case... probably ; ) 

But i don't care being wrong (for once ; ) )... I don't wanna grow up ! And I love you Marty ! 

 

one of the Ghostbusters just died... it sucks to see your heros fade into obscurity but thats life lol

Edited by SterioDesign
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