Triumph Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Except that they probably make the playoffs last year if Hedberg or the reclamation offense wasn't both beyond awful. And three years ago was a total team meltdown in the first half. You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke. There has to be 'something' there. Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty. No, there doesn't. That's just it. There doesn't have to be anything to it. Because there isn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Anyway the Leafs are still bad, they get elite goaltending from Bernier and their shootout record is 9-4 - take away shootouts from New Jersey and Toronto, here's their records: Toronto: 26-24-4 New Jersey: 29-24-5 Funny how New Jersey looks like the better team - and Toronto doesn't even start a horrible goalie for half their games. Edited March 12, 2014 by Triumph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Puddy Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yup. At some point, winning becomes winning. At some point, advanced stats advocates need to realize that what they write off as "luck" is a failure to accurately model what it takes to win a hockey game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You can't have the offense scoring 3+ goals a game for Brodeur and 1.5 goals a game for Cory continue indefinitely and keep dismissing it as a fluke. There has to be 'something' there. Especially when you see some of the efforts they put up for Cory compared to the efforts they usually put up for Marty. Devils only scored two for Marty so I guess it's not a thing anymore. Devils started Schneider wearing Marty's equipment. It's quite obvious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Brown Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The two Florida teams are sitting ducks. 4 points or bust for the Devils this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) Devils GF/G with Marty last 3 seasons: 2011/12: 2.32 2011/12 playoffs: 2.45 2012/2013: 2.37 The above sample is 112 games. 2013/14: 2.87 (32 games). Hedberg 2011/12: 2.77 (27 GP, if only we'd started him we'd won the Cup EZ-mode...teams plays so hard for him man! They liked him way more than Marty!) 2012/13: 1.73 (19 GP, I guess he boned someone's wife or something because nobody liked him anymore? They scored half a goal more for Marty!) It's a fluke. If not, then this team is made up of some of the most unprofessional athletes I've ever seen, who start 'competing harder' for Marty because he's old, slow, bad or whatever but couldn't get their sh!t together and score half a goal more per game to win the Cup in 2012. Do you think that sounds reasonable? It. Is. A. Fluke. It's 30 games. I bet you could find runs and streaks like this for many teams/goalies. Edited March 12, 2014 by Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moustic Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You can't just have a break and "admit" that Marty was good enough this last game... He was "good enough" to help the teams his last 4 games... That sound good to me. Mission is being in Playoff not be sure being right about Hoooow teeeeerrrrrible marty is now. I don't care who is between the pipe as long as we win games... I want this team being in playoff. No one want this team in 7g serie against them... Everyone can beat us to be fair... BUT no one want to play us for sure ! Marty makes some stellar save last night, Cory is the better goalie this year and obviously for more years to go... But we don't freaky care at this point of the season... We won last night ! Now focus on this weekend... 4 points is an obligation ! I don't care who will play better or who will play all together... As i don't care who will score, who will assist, who will make the critical play... I want wins ! (but feel free to discuss for hours how bad Marty is now... If it's that important for you... Go ahead) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted March 12, 2014 Author Share Posted March 12, 2014 If the Devils make the playoffs, Jagr should get Hart consideration. Seriously. Take Jagr away and we're dropping about 25 spots in the draft with that 30th pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Yeah, Brodeur played well - never had me comfortable but I imagine that ship has sailed for him permanently. Got a veteran's break on that final call too - it's a defensible call but probably wrong. Ah well, Flyers got more than their share of calls in that playoff series 4 years ago. 3rd period was a classic low-event NJ 3rd period, got the break and away they went. That's pretty much where I am with Marty now. I can't help it, every time I see a shot coming his way I'm pretty nervous these days. Anyway, 4-0 in his last four with 9 GA on 106 shots (.915 save%). That's probably as good as we should hope to get from Marty over small samples...I can't ask somone who's been a .901 guy over 60 games or so and is almost 42 to do much better. What's unbelievable is, just like that, 700 wins is becoming a realistic total for him...even if he only wins a couple more this year (who know how many more starts he gets this year...I'm not going to even attempt to break down who gets how many starts at this point), he'd only need 12 next year to do it. He could wind up needing 10 or less, if everything keeps aligning for him the way it has been, and the Devils can keep finding ways to win for him. Keeping that in mind, though he's never come out and said anything about 700 wins being important to him, if he's that close and still thinks he's got something (we know the answer to this one), that probably makes his decision to play again next season that much easier for him. And last night and this 4-0 "burst" aside, I still think that 700th win should definitely not come here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It. Is. A. Fluke. It's 30 games. I bet you could find runs and streaks like this for many teams/goalies. Sixty five-games. It's not just that they score for Marty, they don't for the other guy - and they don't score for him to a historically low level. To a degree the organization's become overly dependent on Marty's puckhandling style, to the point where goalies like Cory and Hedberg who shouldn't even try to play the puck keep trying to play the puck. Not that that fully explains a 1+ goal difference in production...but it's a piece of the puzzle. It's also a cop-out to say Marty just wins and the other guy doesn't because the other guy won when he was in Vancouver and that doesn't explain why the other eighteen play much better for one than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Sixty five-games. It's not just that they score for Marty, they don't for the other guy - and they don't score for him to a historically low level. To a degree the organization's become overly dependent on Marty's puckhandling style, to the point where goalies like Cory and Hedberg who shouldn't even try to play the puck keep trying to play the puck. Not that that fully explains a 1+ goal difference in production...but it's a piece of the puzzle. It's also a cop-out to say Marty just wins and the other guy doesn't because the other guy won when he was in Vancouver and that doesn't explain why the other eighteen play much better for one than the other. Not like this has been historically true though. In 2010-11 and 2011-12 Hedberg went 32-19-4 in his games (about a 2.30 GAA over that time), while Marty went 54-47-7 (about 2.42 or so). You can argue that Hedberg's aging overnight and stinking up the joint horribly in 2012-13 contributed to his poor record against Marty's as much as anything else. This year, I do think it's a fluke, and doesn't have that much to do with either goalie. I understand the reasons to try to find out WHY, because on the surface it's so damned puzzling, probably more to Cory than anyone else, but I don't think any real valid reasons exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 Those records are actually indiciative of their GAA though...Hedberg has a slightly better GAA and win percentage. I do think there was a noticeable difference between the offense in Marty's and Hedberg's starts last year in Marty's favor though, even with Kovy's absence coming when Marty was back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) btw to expound on that, the Devils have scored 65 goals in 33 Cory starts this year (slightly under 2 a game, up from what it's been most of the season), while they've scored 98 goals in 32 Marty starts (just over 3 a game). Last year they scored 72 goals in 29 Marty starts (about 2.5 per game), while they scored 40 goals in 19 Moose starts (barely over 2 per game)...and bear in mind Kovy missed practically all of his games with Marty in net too - and the offense as a whole suffered at that point. There's gotta be something to this Marty helps the offense meme, although it shouldn't exist to the degree it has the last two seasons. Edited March 12, 2014 by NJDevs4978 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) I didn't in any way feel threatened during the final few minutes that the Flyers were gonna score. It would have taken perfect play execution for them to score the tying goal. The Devils were hard on the puck, and that was the key. They didn't let Philly cycle the puck with ease. REALLY??even though they DID SCORE LOL. the puck was trickling between martys pads! because the flyers were finding the open man and owning zajac on the FOs, yet we kept icing it. dont know how anyone could not feel threatened, jagr sure did and said so in the post game Edited March 12, 2014 by EdgeControl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I didn't in any way feel threatened during the final few minutes that the Flyers were gonna score. It would have taken perfect play execution for them to score the tying goal. The Devils were hard on the puck, and that was the key. They didn't let Philly cycle the puck with ease. C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way. Far from it. Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call." Fans would've been plenty pissed. But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) It's a fluke, like NHL teams having worse power plays on odd numbered days. Edited March 12, 2014 by Marshall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) C'mon...you make it sound like the Devils had them all the way. Far from it. Not too mention if that no-goal call had happened to the Devils, I doubt most people on here would've been saying "Well, can't really argue about it, it was the right call." Fans would've been plenty pissed. But it's a win against a big opponent and it wasn't a 3-pointer, so I'll happily take it. I think Devils got away with one. Just part of Brodeur's lucky season! The ref wasn't in a great spot and from his angle, I think he thought Brodeur froze the puck and got crushed by Hartnell. and the puck went in. But the replay shows that Marty missed it, and the puck was loose the entire time. The ref looked like he wanted to cry on a faceoff in the last 30 second. It's bang/bang. Easier to appreciate how hard the refs job is when the call goes your way. It seems that call, like most, is not black and white. Anyway, I do enjoy that fans will argue that call to the death. Like you said, if you step back and imagine that was other way around, every Devils fan would be going insane and calling it an NHL conspiracy. Edited March 12, 2014 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 That probably should've been a goal, but you know too much fluky/crazy crap has gone against us over the past 2 years that we absolutely earned that break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 By my reading of the rule it was the correct call, so I won't call it luck. "If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed." Seems pretty black and white... I guess the only legit argument you can make is if volchenkov forced hartnell into brodeur, but on the one replay I saw I didn't see that at all. And even if he did hartnell still needs to make a reasonable effort to avoid the contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeControl Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 By my reading of the rule it was the correct call, so I won't call it luck. "If an attacking player initiates contact with a goalkeeper, incidental or otherwise, while the goalkeeper is in his goal crease, and a goal is scored, the goal will be disallowed." Seems pretty black and white... I guess the only legit argument you can make is if volchenkov forced hartnell into brodeur, but on the one replay I saw I didn't see that at all. And even if he did hartnell still needs to make a reasonable effort to avoid the contact. I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us. yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils731 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us. yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing The first save was made before the contact. Then Hartnell kicks the puck towards the goal and smashes into Marty at about the same time. This was a pretty textbook incidental contact call, IMO. Marty was given no real opportunity to make a play on the puck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmann422 Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 I havent seen replays beyond what the game showed last night, but it looked like the puck was already going in (not yet in but thru the pads) THEN contact was made. thats where the luck came in. the contact nullified it and sort of saved us. yes the contact was a correct call, but if it didnt happen it MAY have been a goal. BUT I DONT GIVE A CR@P LOL, im enjoying a possible 4 pt swing just looked at the replay again- Marty makes the save, the puck bounces to hartnell, goes off his skate and he knocks brodeur while the puck was under him. I really think it should not have been a goal, even with my homer glasses off. Honestly if it was eligible and went to review I think it would have been waived off as being kicked in. And I think hartnell knew it because he didn't complain that much and he's usually one to complain.Oddly the nhl stated the goal was waived off based in rule 78.5, which prevents the goalie from being pushed over the goal line after the save, which I don't think was the case but wtv they got it right IMO. And yes I'll take any points we can get, and the tears of flyer fans are always sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devs4LordStanley Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 not a good hockey goal lmao. that's very descriptive... nice tight D equates to less scoring...interesting. a w is a w.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 The worst call was that hook...Ruutu on Shenn I believe. Total joke call Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'7' Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 looking at it again, he doesn't seem to receive much of a shove from Volchenkov. If anything he knocks Volch over and it's his contact with Brodeur that prevents Brodeur from having a reasonable shot at making that save. It's a good no goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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