devilsrule33 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Too late on that last tweet With Avery bringing up his transgressions again, it's pretty much full Favre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJDevs4978 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Seriously all that's missing is Pittsburgh to somehow import him as the starter and him to beat the Devils like a drum the way Favre did the Packers his first year as a Viking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thefiestygoat Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Can anyone else see Brodeur on the Islanders next year? He fits in nicely with the goalies they've had this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Can anyone else see Brodeur on the Islanders next year? He fits in nicely with the goalies they've had this year. Well that could satisfy Brodeur requirement a) playing more games than he has this season but does not satisfy requirement b) playing on a very good team So Islanders are out for now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Even casual baseball fans know that batting average defines how good a player is (I mean it doesn't, but let's assume that it does). They have no idea that save percentage defines how good a goalie is. That's what it comes down to - simple ignorance of the basic stats. If Jeter were hitting .220 in June, a lot of Yankee fans would say, oh, he'll turn it around, he's Derek Jeter. But Brodeur with a .903 SV% which is basically the equivalent - fans don't realize that there's anything wrong. Part of this is because baseball is a game of failure whereas hockey goalie is a game of successes - any fan can point to 'great saves' a goalie makes. This is how Mike Vernon won a Conn Smythe trophy and how Grant Fuhr went to the Hall of Fame. (As a sidenote, as a Yankees fan and Devils fan, it's great the number of championships I've witnessed, but watching Jeter and Brodeur go through parallel declines has been really tough to take. At least one will be gone at the end of this calendar year.) I have a decent amount of friends that watch almost every game and still think Brodeur deserves to be the #1 and that he isn't finished. Like NJDevs4978 said, for a lot of people, their love and respect for Brodeur clouds their judgement. This all speaks to how damn hard it is to 'scout goalies' just by eye. The difference between an elite goalie and an average one is you get around 1.5 saves more from the elite than the average, per 100 shots...or in Brodeur's case, 3 saves per 100 shots. That's really hard to see and keep in mind. He's certainly 'protected' since NJ give up so few SA. Imagine how bad it'd be if he saw 33 pucks a night...then I wager we'd be hearing a different tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimaira_Devil_#9 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think the orgnaistation needs to stage some sort of intervention. He has become delusional. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 This all speaks to how damn hard it is to 'scout goalies' just by eye. The difference between an elite goalie and an average one is you get around 1.5 saves more from the elite than the average, per 100 shots...or in Brodeur's case, 3 saves per 100 shots. That's really hard to see and keep in mind. He's certainly 'protected' since NJ give up so few SA. Imagine how bad it'd be if he saw 33 pucks a night...then I wager we'd be hearing a different tune. It adds up quick though: Schneider faces about 24.7 shots per 60 minutes, and Brodeur faces about 25.6 per 60. So about 100 shots per four games. So basically, it averages to about 3 extra GA per 240 minutes (four games and roughly 100 shots) when Marty's on the ice...when a team like the Devils struggles to score consistently, those extra 3 GA hurt. Of course it's not like it's ever this steady (not like a guy who scores 41 G in 82 GP scores every other game throughout the year), but it still gives you an idea that Marty being a lesser puck-stopper than Cory is definitely noticable. Also sucks that Marty's .914 in his last 7 GP (about league average) now qualifies as some turning-back-the-clock hot-streak in some fans' eyes, and is somehow definitive proof that Marty's still got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 It adds up quick though: Schneider faces about 24.7 shots per 60 minutes, and Brodeur faces about 25.6 per 60. So about 100 shots per four games. So basically, it averages to about 3 extra GA per 240 minutes (four games and roughly 100 shots) when Marty's on the ice...when a team like the Devils struggles to score consistently, those extra 3 GA hurt. Of course it's not like it's ever this steady (not like a guy who scores 41 G in 82 GP scores every other game throughout the year), but it still gives you an idea that Marty being a lesser puck-stopper than Cory is definitely noticable. Also sucks that Marty's .914 in his last 7 GP (about league average) now qualifies as some turning-back-the-clock hot-streak in some fans' eyes, and is somehow definitive proof that Marty's still got it. I agree...but this is exactly my point: when you go through the numbers, it's easy. Most fans don't do that and if they do, they check the W-column. Just by watching NHL-goalies play it's hard to pinpoint who's actually better, because the different is quite small even over time. With skaters it's easier to tell, but goalies are trickier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 i can't believe all this stuff happened and that Lou would be okay with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 i can't believe all this stuff happened and that Lou would be okay with that If this team misses the playoffs again (and we know there's a VERY good chance that it will), I think you're going to see some changes. I think even with the 2012 run, I don't think Lou is comfortable missing the playoffs three out of four seasons. I've posted this already, but the good news is if Lou really wants to make changes, he can. Exactly three players are signed beyond 2015-16: Zajac, Henrique, and Clowe. No truly disastrous, hard-to-move contracts on the books. Of course, whether you trust Lou to make the right moves is a different debate, but this is not a team with several underperforming players tied up in high-priced, long-term deals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neb00rs Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I think Lou is getting ready to retire. I have always seen him going out the door with Marty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 If this team misses the playoffs again (and we know there's a VERY good chance that it will), I think you're going to see some changes. I think even with the 2012 run, I don't think Lou is comfortable missing the playoffs three out of four seasons. I've posted this already, but the good news is if Lou really wants to make changes, he can. Exactly three players are signed beyond 2015-16: Zajac, Henrique, and Clowe. No truly disastrous, hard-to-move contracts on the books. Of course, whether you trust Lou to make the right moves is a different debate, but this is not a team with several underperforming players tied up in high-priced, long-term deals. I believe what Sterio is talking about here is specifically Brodeur talking about all of these things to the media - Lou is typically not okay with this kind of candor. Little bit of nuance lost in translation, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Rockies 1976 Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 I believe what Sterio is talking about here is specifically Brodeur talking about all of these things to the media - Lou is typically not okay with this kind of candor. Little bit of nuance lost in translation, I think. Yeah, this makes sense, especially within the context of the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JacobPaul1995 Posted April 1, 2014 Share Posted April 1, 2014 this could be what Kinkaid needs to come up as Cory's backup. If Marty goes, Kinkaid comes up to NJ, Wedgewood becomes Albany starter, and Maxime Clermont can get called up to back Wedgewood up. As much as i'd hate to see Marty go, its time to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devlin Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 this could be what Kinkaid needs to come up as Cory's backup. If Marty goes, Kinkaid comes up to NJ, Wedgewood becomes Albany starter, and Maxime Clermont can get called up to back Wedgewood up. As much as i'd hate to see Marty go, its time to move on. I originally thought it might be Marty for 2 more years with Kinkaid as backup...now that Cory is here I like this goalie situation even more! Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkirt Posted April 4, 2014 Share Posted April 4, 2014 10 days left as a Devil.... unless Lou re-signs him for 2014-15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SterioDesign Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Marty is really pissing me off lately... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadDog2020 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Marty is really pissing me off lately... You had me there SD, I thought Marty opened his mouth again lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobilly45 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Im really curious if any other team will offer him anything. Still believe the devs will offer him a final year if he chooses to keep playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 (edited) Im really curious if any other team will offer him anything. Still believe the devs will offer him a final year if he chooses to keep playing. It's interesting that the Wild were looking at Brodeur but for whatever reason (the Wild decided against it, Lou never was going to trade Marty, etc) they went with Bryzgalov. So far Ilya, is 5-0-3 with the Wild with a .920 save percentage and 2 shutouts. They couldn't be happier with what has transpired. It's a reminder that many goalies can give you a level of play (for whatever amount of time) that you'd have to be kidding yourself to believe that a 42-year-old goalie can match at any point. I don't see anyone going after Brodeur. Besides him being atrocious over the last few years, you are getting more problems than signing any other goalie. Brodeur has already said he has to get more games than this year. Who can offer him that? What happens if a team thinks they can give him what he wants, but another goalie clearly outplays him? Is Brodeur going to stick around and sit on the bench for 60 games for a new team? I don't think so. Not a good situation to have a goalie saying goodbye mid season. I think Brodeur knows there is not a place for him here in New Jersey. He's actually been very respectful of Cory when he gets a large run of games. His issue was never that Cory was starting over him but rather he just wasn't playing. It's a difference. He knows Cory is the better goalie, but he selfishly wants to play. I say selfishly only because he just isn't good enough anymore. It's kind of sad with Brodeur. He has accomplished everything there is to accomplish, but he isn't ready to retire. He'll eventually make that call, but it probably won't be him going out on his own terms. So I say it's sad because there is a great chance the entire league says "Sorry Marty, thanks, but no thanks." In his mind he probably thinks he still has it. That's been his message all year. He just needs to play. That isn't how it works though. For every game like the one against Philly (a really nice game and one that he thinks proves his point), there is an okay game and two bad ones. Playing 55-65 games is not going to change that. The only thing I'll find interesting is who blinks first between Lou and Marty. Is Lou able to tell Marty that the Devils need to move on without him? Can Lou put aside his personal and professional admiration for Brodeur to make that call? And can Marty make a decision to step away without putting Lou in such a tough spot? Edited April 6, 2014 by devilsrule33 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zubie#8 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Someone hit this man in the head with a frying pan to wake his ass up to reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Look, Brodeur clearly sees to some degree that he might not find a place in the NHL next year, because he said so in one of his many interviews. And I think he sees the writing on the wall here - including the Winter Classic, he's started 9 of the last 24 games, Schneider has started 15. That's a 51-31 split over an 82 game season, and that's the ratio he's looking at here going forward, at best. So he wants to play and for a winner, but he recognizes, in his tortured language, that winning teams might not want such an old goalie. I think 'going out on your own terms' is for fans. I don't blame players who want to keep playing. They train your whole life to do something, they're one of the best in the world at it, and most guys won't get to a high level in anything else they do. For Brodeur to go out on his own terms - that ship sailed 2 years ago. There's a few great athletes who've managed it - most do not. But fans forget about those years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilsrule33 Posted April 6, 2014 Share Posted April 6, 2014 Look, Brodeur clearly sees to some degree that he might not find a place in the NHL next year, because he said so in one of his many interviews. And I think he sees the writing on the wall here - including the Winter Classic, he's started 9 of the last 24 games, Schneider has started 15. That's a 51-31 split over an 82 game season, and that's the ratio he's looking at here going forward, at best. So he wants to play and for a winner, but he recognizes, in his tortured language, that winning teams might not want such an old goalie. I think 'going out on your own terms' is for fans. I don't blame players who want to keep playing. They train your whole life to do something, they're one of the best in the world at it, and most guys won't get to a high level in anything else they do. For Brodeur to go out on his own terms - that ship sailed 2 years ago. There's a few great athletes who've managed it - most do not. But fans forget about those years. You are probably right...re: going out on your own terms, but Brodeur has not done himself any favours. I also think that most of the NHL greats have done a good job knowing when his time is up. His latest comments that went around show he really doesn't get it totally. Brodeur's legacy should be pretty interesting, and I imagine his career will be examined and interrogated quite a bit as more advanced stats become more mainstream. The blog "Brodeur is a Fraud" looked into a lot of the things that made Brodeur overrated, and with the criteria changing on how we are judging goalies...who knows how he will be looked at. I know the two things aren't closely related, but perhaps it becomes more pages to the haters case file. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triumph Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Brodeur is still going to be regarded as one of the top 5 goalies of all time even if there is a re-evaluation. 'Brodeur is a Fraud' - which by the way has changed its name as Brodeur's legacy has been re-evaluated among the true cognoscenti - has merely pointed out that A: Brodeur doesn't have a super-high SV% and that he has a mid-career SV% gap and that he's really not super better than all his peers. What Brodeur gained by having by far the most disciplined team in the NHL (thereby increasing SV% because SV% decreases in 4 on 5 situations and decreases substantially in 3 on 5 situations) in front of him he lost with NJ's scorer who has nicked him of a shot or two a game for the last 20 years. The real critical thing is that there don't seem to be many potential successors to the Brodeur throne. Rask and Schneider got a super late start to their careers. Luongo spent half his career on bad teams. Lundqvist is excellent - the Rangers are going all-in-ish these next 2 years so we'll see if they manage a Cup. The last two Calder winning goalies were Mason and Raycroft and teams have stopped drafting goalies in the top 10 of the NHL draft - there isn't a ready-made narrative for great goaltender anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueSkirt Posted April 7, 2014 Share Posted April 7, 2014 Of the current keepers, Fleury has a very long shot of getting near Brodeur's Wins Totals. To do so, Fleury would have to be as successful in the second half of his career as he has been in his first half, and that is a tall order for any athlete, indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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