Trading one of the Young Defensemen

[sundstrom]

I know we have a couple threads dealing with "the offseason" and moves people suggest. But I wanted to discuss the specific idea of trading one of the young defensemen. The Devils clearly have a logjam on defense, even without re-signing Mark Fayne, something they really should try to do.

 

Of course, everyone would just love to dump Salvador and Volchenkov (not me obviously on the 2nd guy) but there's just no way the Devils are going with a defense of

 

Greene-Fayne

Gelinas-Larsson

Merrill-Zidlicky

Harrold

 

Now if Fayne is not brought back and one of 24 and 28 is gone, you've got all 3 kids in the lineup. But that's really the only way so I think Lou will try and deal a defenseman. For the purposes of this thread, I'm going to assume they all have fairly equal value around the league.

 

If the Devils are going to trade them, it will be for a forward. Some possible ideas I came up with:

 

Detroit - Tatar or Jurco

Anaheim - Etem

Columbus - Cam Atkinson

 

I'm curious what anyone thinks about any of those players or what other F are legitimately attainable that makes sense for both teams.

[Zubie#8]

Detroit needs to keep their young forwards so I don't think those two are an option. They are in the same boat as us.

[The 29th Pick]

lets start with this....what teams out there are set on D and what teams need D?

[sundstrom]

lets start with this....what teams out there are set on D and what teams need D?

 

i originally thought about doing that but its really subjective. i would think many teams could use a young, cost controlled nhl caliber defenseman with better than average potential to be a top pairing guy. the question is whether they have the forward depth to spare. i actually think detroit is a good fit. edmonton is always discussed but for yakopov? for gagner? i don't know if there's a deal there that the devils would be happy with.

[DJ Eco]

Anaheim is set on D with Lindholm, Vatanen, Fowler, and Theodore, so I don't think they'd be interested, Columbus seems like a very real possibility though, I wonder if a Gelinas-Atkinson swap would be possible

 

I'd do that in a second, I wonder if they would based on one season of superficial stats alone. Although we know he wasn't in DeBoer's plans defensively, his numbers did make some waves around the league... I'm sure it'd take more though, but how much?

[losdiablos103]

GET RID OF HARROLD!!!

[sokar]

Oilers would be a good team to trade with

[Daniel]

Oilers would be a good team to trade with

 

I've said it before, but I'd look into trading for Edmonton's first, number 3 overall.  It works if Ekblad is gone, so the question is if someone like Larsson were available in the draft would he go number 3.  I have no idea.

[HellOnICE]

Something I've been thinking about, like all of us, are potential trades. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we need top-line forwards. We don't have top-end value to trade....and any trade which really gets up that top line talent - at least in my head - involves packing 2 of 3 players...Henrique, Larsson or Merrill. I really think it does.

 

Larsson doesn't have value by himself. Henrique does, but he's not going to bring back what we need by himself. Merrill has good value, but again, not by himself. I think a team like Edmonton needs better defensive players...Henrique and Larsson or Merril. Could that bring back a Sam Gagner and Taylor Hall or Jordan Eberle? Who knows what certain teams want to do.

 

I begin to think we shouldn't trade any of them. See if we can sign Stastny...if we can't, then you may have to go the trade route. If we can get Stastny...who knows...then I'd wait and see how it affects the lineup from his end, plus the abilities of Boucher, Sislo and Matteau.

 

We are in a precarious position. One bad trade could set us back big time.

Edited June 5, 2014 by HellOnICE

[William D'Aquila]

I agree with HOI.

[grcenter47]

is Severson NHL ready? I would love to see him on the ice

[CarpathianForest]

Although I would love to see him with the Devils I don't think the now competent CBJ front office will be interested in trading Atkinson.

[lazer]

 

 

Greene-Fayne

Gelinas-Larsson

Merrill-Zidlicky

Harrold

 

 

 

period, period, period;

 

i just want to win.

 

to elaborate: the logjam is as per say; addition by subtraction

Edited June 6, 2014 by lazer

[Triumph]

To me those guys sundstrom mentioned just don't move the needle.  Yes, NJ needs some better wingers.  I think Jurco, Tatar, Etem, Atkinson - they're all going to be fine players in this league, but all these guys are probably 2nd-line-on-a-good-team forwards.  45-50 point a season types.  Nice to have, certainly.  But without some better centers, NJ will be sunk.  Elias can only last so long.  Henrique is not a center, it's time they come to terms with this, or if he is, he's a very good 3rd line center/weak 2nd line center.

 

When I look at the 3 defensemen, I see Gelinas, who could be something really excellent.  It's not likely - Gelinas's play in the defensive zone this past year makes me think he will never quite figure it out.  The game will speed up and he'll get less panicky, but he will still be prone to mistakes.  But the Devils have not had something like Gelinas in a very, very long time - in fact, I can't think of the last time NJ had a D prospect like Gelinas, and that's because they've never had one, really.  Niedermayer scored from the back end but he was a different sort of player.  I look at some of what Gelinas does and I see Subban.  I don't want to give that possibility up, not for some 2nd line guy.  There's of course a strong chance that Gelinas will remain a 3rd pairing/fringe NHLer because he can't get his D game sorted out, and this post could look very foolish, but I just can't give that up.

 

Merrill's value got hurt by that Michigan incident - regardless, he came up and just didn't look out of place.  He's not going to score a ton but I think he could be a very effective D for the next decade - think Paul Martin.  And there's a slim chance that he becomes an elite defensive D with some offense to him.  I don't want to give that up especially because I think he'd be the least valuable of the 3 - I can't imagine GMs think particularly highly of him, but I do.

 

And then there's Larsson.  Him I would give up - I like him a lot and think he could be very good, but I imagine he has more value than the other two.  But he's still just 21 going on 22.  I'd want to get a 1st line forward back for him but I don't think that's possible.  I wouldn't give him up for any of the players sundstrom mentioned, or for players on that level.

 

I think waiting a year could be a good idea.  Severson will be more a known quantity.  Gelinas will demonstrate whether he can handle being an everyday D.  Larsson and Merrill should take steps forward or to the side.  NJ will have a better sense of what all these guys are, and they'll be able to make the right move with one of them.

[2ELIAS6]

GET RID OF HARROLD!!!

for what a bag of pucks?.. who the hell would want him

[Derlique]

To me those guys sundstrom mentioned just don't move the needle.  Yes, NJ needs some better wingers.  I think Jurco, Tatar, Etem, Atkinson - they're all going to be fine players in this league, but all these guys are probably 2nd-line-on-a-good-team forwards.  45-50 point a season types.  Nice to have, certainly.  But without some better centers, NJ will be sunk.  Elias can only last so long.  Henrique is not a center, it's time they come to terms with this, or if he is, he's a very good 3rd line center/weak 2nd line center.

 

When I look at the 3 defensemen, I see Gelinas, who could be something really excellent.  It's not likely - Gelinas's play in the defensive zone this past year makes me think he will never quite figure it out.  The game will speed up and he'll get less panicky, but he will still be prone to mistakes.  But the Devils have not had something like Gelinas in a very, very long time - in fact, I can't think of the last time NJ had a D prospect like Gelinas, and that's because they've never had one, really.  Niedermayer scored from the back end but he was a different sort of player.  I look at some of what Gelinas does and I see Subban.  I don't want to give that possibility up, not for some 2nd line guy.  There's of course a strong chance that Gelinas will remain a 3rd pairing/fringe NHLer because he can't get his D game sorted out, and this post could look very foolish, but I just can't give that up.

 

Merrill's value got hurt by that Michigan incident - regardless, he came up and just didn't look out of place.  He's not going to score a ton but I think he could be a very effective D for the next decade - think Paul Martin.  And there's a slim chance that he becomes an elite defensive D with some offense to him.  I don't want to give that up especially because I think he'd be the least valuable of the 3 - I can't imagine GMs think particularly highly of him, but I do.

 

And then there's Larsson.  Him I would give up - I like him a lot and think he could be very good, but I imagine he has more value than the other two.  But he's still just 21 going on 22.  I'd want to get a 1st line forward back for him but I don't think that's possible.  I wouldn't give him up for any of the players sundstrom mentioned, or for players on that level.

 

I think waiting a year could be a good idea.  Severson will be more a known quantity.  Gelinas will demonstrate whether he can handle being an everyday D.  Larsson and Merrill should take steps forward or to the side.  NJ will have a better sense of what all these guys are, and they'll be able to make the right move with one of them.

I'm on the fence about waiting a year to see what we have.  On one hand, there is the obvious that we'll know more about each player, but on the other hand, what if Gelinas doesn't figure it out?  What if Larsson doesn't improve? What if Severson doesn't translate well to the pro game? I'm not really worried about Merrill because I think he'll be the best of the bunch. If the doomsday scenario that NJ is stuck with a lot of meh occurs, well we're pretty screwed. Might be better to take a shot at a trade and spread out your wealth.  BTW, I think they hold onto Larsson because he is a RH shot and at least we/they know he can play in the league.

[lazer]

To me those guys sundstrom mentioned just don't move the needle.  Yes, NJ needs some better wingers.  I think Jurco, Tatar, Etem, Atkinson - they're all going to be fine players in this league, but all these guys are probably 2nd-line-on-a-good-team forwards.  45-50 point a season types.  Nice to have, certainly.  But without some better centers, NJ will be sunk.  Elias can only last so long.  Henrique is not a center, it's time they come to terms with this, or if he is, he's a very good 3rd line center/weak 2nd line center.

 

When I look at the 3 defensemen, I see Gelinas, who could be something really excellent.  It's not likely - Gelinas's play in the defensive zone this past year makes me think he will never quite figure it out.  The game will speed up and he'll get less panicky, but he will still be prone to mistakes.  But the Devils have not had something like Gelinas in a very, very long time - in fact, I can't think of the last time NJ had a D prospect like Gelinas, and that's because they've never had one, really.  Niedermayer scored from the back end but he was a different sort of player.  I look at some of what Gelinas does and I see Subban.  I don't want to give that possibility up, not for some 2nd line guy.  There's of course a strong chance that Gelinas will remain a 3rd pairing/fringe NHLer because he can't get his D game sorted out, and this post could look very foolish, but I just can't give that up.

 

Merrill's value got hurt by that Michigan incident - regardless, he came up and just didn't look out of place.  He's not going to score a ton but I think he could be a very effective D for the next decade - think Paul Martin.  And there's a slim chance that he becomes an elite defensive D with some offense to him.  I don't want to give that up especially because I think he'd be the least valuable of the 3 - I can't imagine GMs think particularly highly of him, but I do.

 

And then there's Larsson.  Him I would give up - I like him a lot and think he could be very good, but I imagine he has more value than the other two.  But he's still just 21 going on 22.  I'd want to get a 1st line forward back for him but I don't think that's possible.  I wouldn't give him up for any of the players sundstrom mentioned, or for players on that level.

 

I think waiting a year could be a good idea.  Severson will be more a known quantity.  Gelinas will demonstrate whether he can handle being an everyday D.  Larsson and Merrill should take steps forward or to the side.  NJ will have a better sense of what all these guys are, and they'll be able to make the right move with one of them.

good read; the albany squad is deep on D too

 

something has to happen here if only to prevent the break away break down or that may be the pinch system-addict heheh

 

edit: i agree, its whats here and right now; the formula for chemistry is there for sure

Edited June 6, 2014 by lazer

[HellOnICE]

There's just no benefit in rushing a deal now with our young D unless something comes along as no brainer as you could get. I wonder what we do with our 3D in and out lineups - but we shall see. Hopefully Severson has a good rookie camp too.

[thefiestygoat]

I'd love to trade for Evander Kane or Nazem Kadri but I don't know if Winnipeg or Toronto would want any of NJ's young D.

[HellOnICE]

I think they could feisty - I just think any deal involving the Devils for a forward - the team would want Henrique in return as part of package involving a young D and Henrique.

[lazer]

winni would

[Triumph]

I'm on the fence about waiting a year to see what we have.  On one hand, there is the obvious that we'll know more about each player, but on the other hand, what if Gelinas doesn't figure it out?  What if Larsson doesn't improve? What if Severson doesn't translate well to the pro game? I'm not really worried about Merrill because I think he'll be the best of the bunch. If the doomsday scenario that NJ is stuck with a lot of meh occurs, well we're pretty screwed. Might be better to take a shot at a trade and spread out your wealth.  BTW, I think they hold onto Larsson because he is a RH shot and at least we/they know he can play in the league.

 

You make a deal in a year.  Trades happen when two teams mutually value each other's player more than they value their own.  Some young winger will have a down year and they'll want to move him, and then a deal will happen.  The only guy possibly to the apex of his value is Gelinas, but the upside with Gelinas is so enormous that I'd be hesitant to move him.  My point is that guys like Atkinson, Tatar, Jurco, Etem - none of these guys are likely to be great players.  It'd be nice to have one of them, but I don't want to give up on the wrong D.

[DH26]

I think they could feisty - I just think any deal involving the Devils for a forward - the team would want Henrique in return as part of package involving a young D and Henrique.

 

Toronto and Winnipeg both are pretty much dumb as rocks so it's hard to know what they'd value. One keeps with Pavelec and the Leafs are the dumbest team in organized sports so who knows they might like Salvador more than Larsson (they did run Mark Fraser out there a bunch a couple years ago). Winnipeg I don't really know well enough but unless you're getting Wheeler back or Byfuglien (even if he should stay on D) I dunno 

[RizzMB30]

All these trade talk and speculation is all fine and dandy, but why would the Devils make a trade for a scoring forward when free agency is just around the corner?  Why give up assets when you can give up none of them for a scorer.  The only trades I see coming are ones that will dump some of our dead weight.  I just don't see the Devils giving up Henrique.

[MadDog2020]

All these trade talk and speculation is all fine and dandy, but why would the Devils make a trade for a scoring forward when free agency is just around the corner? Why give up assets when you can give up none of them for a scorer. The only trades I see coming are ones that will dump some of our dead weight. I just don't see the Devils giving up Henrique.

The only guy worth going after in FA is Stastny, and he's a center. The Devils need a scoring winger also, and the FA pickings are slim.